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SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #1
SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
https://www.si.com/college/2020/03/06/me...daway-ncaa

Long and seemingly detailed article written by SI’s Legal Analyst. He talks about the process, poses questions, and gives opinions.

Here's his take at the end of the article.

Quote:No right to appeal doesn’t mean no right to sue

It will likely be months before we know what IARP referral concerns and whether Memphis and any of its coaches are going to be punished. No matter how the process lands, the NCAA makes clear “the resolution is final and not subject to appeal.”

Keep in mind, what is “final” to the NCAA is not necessarily “final” to the legal system. If punished in ways that Memphis deems unfair or unwarranted, the school (and/or a punished coach) could conceivably sue the NCAA. Memphis (and/or a punished coach) could seek to identify possible flaws in the IARP’s process. For instance, witnesses would provide information without having to provide sworn testimony to corroborate their claims. This means witnesses aren’t subject to the risk of a perjury charge if they knowingly lie, conceal or exaggerate. In addition, the IARP process might lead to an incomplete record. Neither the NCAA nor any functionary within the IARP has subpoena powers and can’t compel the disclosure of records, including emails and texts.

The fact that the IARP has never been used before could also motivate Memphis to challenge an adverse outcome. After all, those involved in the IARP can’t rely on past practices. They are pioneers, which means they might be more inclined to err.

So, what does this all mean? By the time the Memphis matter is resolved through the IARP and potential litigation, Wiseman will likely be well into his NBA career. For him, his week as a college basketball player will be a distant memory; for others, it might remain a recurring and divisive topic.
03-08-2020 12:35 AM
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holyterror Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
I predict we will get whatever drags out the longest and hurts our recruiting the most.

I’m a very positive guy, but the NCAA, well...
03-08-2020 06:16 AM
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AtlTigerfan Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
At least there is some hope that we could fight it.
03-08-2020 06:33 AM
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holyterror Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 06:33 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  At least there is some hope that we could fight it.

Yeah. There's that. Lord only knows how long that could drag out our time in the wilderness, though.
03-08-2020 08:17 AM
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AtlTigerfan Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 08:17 AM)holyterror Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 06:33 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  At least there is some hope that we could fight it.

Yeah. There's that. Lord only knows how long that could drag out our time in the wilderness, though.

True.
03-08-2020 02:09 PM
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mccarverslawyer Offline
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Post: #6
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 02:09 PM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 08:17 AM)holyterror Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 06:33 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  At least there is some hope that we could fight it.

Yeah. There's that. Lord only knows how long that could drag out our time in the wilderness, though.

True.

Fighting this ruling would be in Federal court. Getting a court date (assuming there is Standing to sue) and then pretrial Discovery/Motions will, in terms of speed, Kill off at least 2 recruiting cycles.
Which would effectively end Penny coaching as an effective HC - challenging in court, practically speaking, forces Plan B.
Is there a Plan B
03-08-2020 05:33 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
And not only the time and issues with court, the NCAA trump card is the fact that schools are not forced to join the NCAA. They volunteer to become a member of the NCAA and to follow their rules (no matter how bad). If you don't want their rules, leave the NCAA.

I wish all schools would leave and force changes.
03-08-2020 05:44 PM
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yakko Offline
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Post: #8
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
I was always under the belief that part of joining the NCAA was agreeing to go through their arbitration process and waiving their right to sue.
03-08-2020 06:25 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 06:25 PM)yakko Wrote:  I was always under the belief that part of joining the NCAA was agreeing to go through their arbitration process and waiving their right to sue.

I have no idea, but the NCAA has been sued quite a few times (winning some and losing some) and there are plenty of pending cases as well. So, if they do agree to that, it must not hold up.

One of the cases that just leaves me scratching my head is the NCAA settled by allowing universities to provide healthcare for student athletes...

why in the world would the NCAA (which was formed to protect student athletes) be the side blocking providing healthcare.
03-08-2020 07:27 PM
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SeñorTiger Offline
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Post: #10
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 06:25 PM)yakko Wrote:  I was always under the belief that part of joining the NCAA was agreeing to go through their arbitration process and waiving their right to sue.

Waiving you’re right to sue and agreeing to arbitration is not an enforceable clause in many states. Even if someone signs a contract with that verbiage in it many states will not allow it to be upheld.
03-08-2020 10:03 PM
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John44932 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 05:33 PM)mccarverslawyer Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 02:09 PM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 08:17 AM)holyterror Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 06:33 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  At least there is some hope that we could fight it.

Yeah. There's that. Lord only knows how long that could drag out our time in the wilderness, though.

True.

Fighting this ruling would be in Federal court. Getting a court date (assuming there is Standing to sue) and then pretrial Discovery/Motions will, in terms of speed, Kill off at least 2 recruiting cycles.
Which would effectively end Penny coaching as an effective HC - challenging in court, practically speaking, forces Plan B.
Is there a Plan B

We are already on Plan C.
03-08-2020 10:12 PM
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Tigator14 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
IMO...treat it the way Jerry Tarkanian did for about 30 years and fight them tooth and nail. NCAA started in on Tark at his first big coaching gig with Long Beach State. Once he started beating USC and particularly UCLA, they were all over him due to the bigger boys complaining. He shook it off by admitting nothing and continued to have successful teams.

Once at UNLV, after building national power teams, NCAA continued to hound him due to some of the big boys coaxing on his recruiting methods. Tark never backed down and UNLV backed him. Finally, just prior to the 76-77 season the NCAA put Tark and the team on 2 years probation and suspended Tark for 2 years. He sued immediately and was then reinstated by an injunction signed by a Nevada judge, the team in turn was also removed from probation and made it to the NC final four.

After his final season at UNLV in 1992, after winning over 500 games, Tark once again filed a lawsuit against the mighty NCAA for harassing him for over two decades. The NCAA fought the suit early on, however due to his dogged attack about them being more willing to punish less prominent schools vs the blue bloods, the institution finally caved in 1998. Although unwilling to admit that the NCAA was wrong in harassing Tark and his charges, they settled out of court with Coach Tarkanian and awarded him $2.5M in 1998. The amount is now equivalent to an estimated $4M.

Fight them all the way and never back down.

GTG!
03-09-2020 12:43 AM
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CRM114 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
I read the whole article and there is a section where it explains why our case may have been referred to the nominally-independent IARP. Two of the writer’s points raise questions about the NCAA’s conduct in this case. Others talk about how this is a murky situation to adjudicate, with legal action taken by the athlete, and the unusual circumstance of a booster acting in the capacity of a high school coach and later getting hired by the school for which he is a booster.

If Memphis escapes severe punishment, I think the court order and subsequent settlement between Wiseman and the NCAA will be the main reason. The NCAA wants to punish Memphis for willfully playing a “likely ineligible” athlete who was eventual declared ineligible. Memphis will argue that it did not do so willfully but under court order, that the athlete was eventually suspended rather than declared permanently ineligible (i.e. he was going to be allowed to play again anyway), and that the suspension was not a result of a court ruling on the facts of the case, but a settlement in which the NCAA itself was a party, but not Memphis.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 01:11 AM by CRM114.)
03-09-2020 01:05 AM
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tmoneyinmphs Offline
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Post: #14
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-09-2020 12:43 AM)Tigator14 Wrote:  IMO...treat it the way Jerry Tarkanian did for about 30 years and fight them tooth and nail. NCAA started in on Tark at his first big coaching gig with Long Beach State. Once he started beating USC and particularly UCLA, they were all over him due to the bigger boys complaining. He shook it off by admitting nothing and continued to have successful teams.

Once at UNLV, after building national power teams, NCAA continued to hound him due to some of the big boys coaxing on his recruiting methods. Tark never backed down and UNLV backed him. Finally, just prior to the 76-77 season the NCAA put Tark and the team on 2 years probation and suspended Tark for 2 years. He sued immediately and was then reinstated by an injunction signed by a Nevada judge, the team in turn was also removed from probation and made it to the NC final four.

After his final season at UNLV in 1992, after winning over 500 games, Tark once again filed a lawsuit against the mighty NCAA for harassing him for over two decades. The NCAA fought the suit early on, however due to his dogged attack about them being more willing to punish less prominent schools vs the blue bloods, the institution finally caved in 1998. Although unwilling to admit that the NCAA was wrong in harassing Tark and his charges, they settled out of court with Coach Tarkanian and awarded him $2.5M in 1998. The amount is now equivalent to an estimated $4M.

Fight them all the way and never back down.

GTG!

Yeah, tark won his case against the ncaa.

But he also committed career suicide.

After winning the title and really pissing off the ncaa by doing so, the ncaa started in on unlv hard ultimately settling on a post season ban in 1992. Tark finished out the 91-92 season and resigned.

Unlv has never been that good again. They went from a well known national brand to being hardly mentioned in the national public since.

Tark became a coach again at fresno state 3 years later. They got ncaa probation too.

Botton line is tark was never the same after leaving unlv. His status as a legend coach also took a major hit. He was not seen the same way ever again by the national public.

Did tark cheat? Yes, probably so. But we all know that blue blood teams within the ncaa are allowed to cheat also.

If you fight the ncaa like tark, you better be ready to take the hit. They could bury memphis and penny forever. It's definitely not a fair game. I don't think the memphis fanbase could handle it and local opinion would turn against the school and coach. Then yall would turn the tv on and watch power conference basketball like the ncaa wants you to do.
03-09-2020 07:56 AM
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mccarverslawyer Offline
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Post: #15
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-08-2020 10:12 PM)John44932 Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 05:33 PM)mccarverslawyer Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 02:09 PM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 08:17 AM)holyterror Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 06:33 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  At least there is some hope that we could fight it.

Yeah. There's that. Lord only knows how long that could drag out our time in the wilderness, though.

True.

Fighting this ruling would be in Federal court. Getting a court date (assuming there is Standing to sue) and then pretrial Discovery/Motions will, in terms of speed, Kill off at least 2 recruiting cycles.
Which would effectively end Penny coaching as an effective HC - challenging in court, practically speaking, forces Plan B.
Is there a Plan B

We are already on Plan C.

Coaching Plan B
03-09-2020 08:46 AM
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Poolshrk111 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-09-2020 07:56 AM)tmoneyinmphs Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 12:43 AM)Tigator14 Wrote:  IMO...treat it the way Jerry Tarkanian did for about 30 years and fight them tooth and nail. NCAA started in on Tark at his first big coaching gig with Long Beach State. Once he started beating USC and particularly UCLA, they were all over him due to the bigger boys complaining. He shook it off by admitting nothing and continued to have successful teams.

Once at UNLV, after building national power teams, NCAA continued to hound him due to some of the big boys coaxing on his recruiting methods. Tark never backed down and UNLV backed him. Finally, just prior to the 76-77 season the NCAA put Tark and the team on 2 years probation and suspended Tark for 2 years. He sued immediately and was then reinstated by an injunction signed by a Nevada judge, the team in turn was also removed from probation and made it to the NC final four.

After his final season at UNLV in 1992, after winning over 500 games, Tark once again filed a lawsuit against the mighty NCAA for harassing him for over two decades. The NCAA fought the suit early on, however due to his dogged attack about them being more willing to punish less prominent schools vs the blue bloods, the institution finally caved in 1998. Although unwilling to admit that the NCAA was wrong in harassing Tark and his charges, they settled out of court with Coach Tarkanian and awarded him $2.5M in 1998. The amount is now equivalent to an estimated $4M.

Fight them all the way and never back down.

GTG!

Yeah, tark won his case against the ncaa.

But he also committed career suicide.

After winning the title and really pissing off the ncaa by doing so, the ncaa started in on unlv hard ultimately settling on a post season ban in 1992. Tark finished out the 91-92 season and resigned.

Unlv has never been that good again. They went from a well known national brand to being hardly mentioned in the national public since.

Tark became a coach again at fresno state 3 years later. They got ncaa probation too.

Botton line is tark was never the same after leaving unlv. His status as a legend coach also took a major hit. He was not seen the same way ever again by the national public.

Did tark cheat? Yes, probably so. But we all know that blue blood teams within the ncaa are allowed to cheat also.

If you fight the ncaa like tark, you better be ready to take the hit. They could bury memphis and penny forever. It's definitely not a fair game. I don't think the memphis fanbase could handle it and local opinion would turn against the school and coach. Then yall would turn the tv on and watch power conference basketball like the ncaa wants you to do.

If they hit us and bury Memphis like you say, I can assure you I will have watched my last college basketball games. All I've ever wanted in life (before I had kids) was to watch the Tigers cut down the nets. If we aren't in it anymore, I will have no problem turning it off for good.
03-09-2020 09:10 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #17
RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
Out of all the idiotic $hit I've read, nearly all of it starting with how we took the NCAA to court (which is supremely idiotic); this is easily the best article. You left out the most important points, the 6 bullet points. ALL of them are spot on, and at least 2 or 3 should have been grounds for there to have been no suspension.

Quote:However, several factors (to me) seem applicable to the Wiseman situation:

• The facts in the Wiseman matter are in dispute and arguably implicate the NCAA. Did the NCAA know about the 2017 issue when it cleared Wiseman to play in May 2019? If so, why did the NCAA change its mind in November 2019? It makes sense that an entity other than the NCAA ought to consider the NCAA’s own conduct in this matter.

• The facts might also be “stale” in the sense that Wiseman and his family are under no obligation to cooperate with NCAA investigators and, for reasons noted above, may be disinclined to do so. Perhaps they would be more willing to communicate with investigators who don’t take orders from the NCAA.

• Even assuming Hardaway is “guilty” of helping Wiseman’s family move, it’s not certain that Hardaway committed an NCAA infraction. His alleged misconduct would have occurred before he was employed by Memphis and may have been motivated by high school, not collegiate, recruiting interests. Was he a booster at that time? Probably. But would his actions have constituted an impermissible act? A more neutral entity than the NCAA assessing these questions would lead to more credible conclusions.

• An independent investigation can also consider if there is more to the story. Might Wiseman have received other impermissible benefits from Memphis and/or Hardaway? Could other basketball recruits have received them as well? It’s reasonable to assume that a booster who helps his or her alma mater with one recruit might be inclined to do so with other recruits. Likewise, if a school permitted or acquiesced to one booster engaging in illicit recruit activity, the school might have done so with other boosters.

• Is it appropriate for the NCAA to punish Memphis and potentially Hardaway for a student-athlete invoking his or her legal rights in court? Wiseman had a right to seek a restraining order and a judge granted him one. One could argue that Memphis should not be punished for relying on that court order, particularly when Wiseman had not yet been suspended. It makes sense that an entity other than the NCAA should decide that issue.

• The NCAA might also worry about the optics of the Wiseman situation and wish to gain separation from it. The NCAA has been ridiculed for ordering a student-athlete to make a five-figure “donation.” The Wiseman controversy has also surfaced while the rights of student-athletes are central in legislative and policy discussions concerning the commercial use of names, images and likenesses.
03-09-2020 09:32 AM
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k2tigers Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
article writer on 92.9 with Geoff now
03-09-2020 09:56 AM
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midtowncowboy Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
Hire the law firm used by Kansas or UNC. Dump the chumps.
03-09-2020 10:17 AM
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gusrob Offline
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RE: SI article about Memphis and the IARP process.
(03-09-2020 10:17 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Hire the law firm used by Kansas or UNC. Dump the chumps.

Didn't we use the same attorney for D.Rose that Kansas used for D.Arthur?
03-09-2020 10:37 AM
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