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2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
If it is even half full I will be surprised, and that would likely only be because there are W&M fans that want to watch the entire thing even though their team is out. I agree DC is a good location for a neutral tournament for this conference. However you seem to be neglecting that there just are not the fan bases to fill the seats. If there are not enough fans interested when they play at home, why would you expect there to be enough interest away from their home arena? W&M was the draw. They are the ones with strong enough support to help fill out that arena. UNCW and CofC are too far away, plus they were eliminated. The tournament semis and finals being during the week is not going to instill many folks to show up without a good reason. I would venture to guess that we are looking at about 1800 butts in the seat for the finals. I am sure tickets sold will be a little higher as I am sure some bought books for the entire event even if they dont show up or find a buyer.
03-09-2020 07:11 AM
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J.B. Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
(03-09-2020 07:11 AM)dan10 Wrote:  If it is even half full I will be surprised, and that would likely only be because there are W&M fans that want to watch the entire thing even though their team is out. I agree DC is a good location for a neutral tournament for this conference. However you seem to be neglecting that there just are not the fan bases to fill the seats. If there are not enough fans interested when they play at home, why would you expect there to be enough interest away from their home arena? W&M was the draw. They are the ones with strong enough support to help fill out that arena. UNCW and CofC are too far away, plus they were eliminated. The tournament semis and finals being during the week is not going to instill many folks to show up without a good reason. I would venture to guess that we are looking at about 1800 butts in the seat for the finals. I am sure tickets sold will be a little higher as I am sure some bought books for the entire event even if they dont show up or find a buyer.

Most fans are bandwagon fans, in all schools, especially Delaware. In the very, very rare opportunity to see their team win a championship, they would show up. If Drexel made it to the championship game, there would probably be more Drexel fans in the arena in DC than for a typical game at the DAC. Schools invest in buses to get their fans to big games. I do agree that a Hofstra/Northeastern games might be a little tough, but it will be much better in this arena in DC than in Charleston. Last year's championship game attendance was 2,892. Being that DC is more accessible to most than Charleston, there's no reason why that game won't draw 3,500 to 4,000. If Delaware wins tonight, I guarantee that the championship game is close to a sellout.
03-09-2020 07:28 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
You have to keep in mind that CofC was one of the favorites. Their fans bought complete tickets for the entire event. So even though they fell in the semis the tickets were still sold. With the high rate of the ticket books, I have doubts that nearly that many bought full session books versus individual sessions. You are also further away from from UNCW and CofC who are your biggest fan draws now. While you get small bumps from teams sending fans at the last moment, you are drawing from small numbers in this case. I am sure the number will be similar as far as tickets sold, but if there are actually more than 2K butts in the seats, I would be shocked. Even last year that was the comments from everyone was how empty it looked on tv, despite whatever numbers were shown as the attendance. I doubt that many W&M fans bought full even tickets. That would be the only way you get attendance that high. I don't think the numbers will support it.

2149 for the Delaware/CofC game (which likely was similar for our game since its the same session)
2718 for Elon/NU (which is likely similar for W&M being in the same session)

These numbers are coming from ESPN as the CAA website does not list attendance numbers that I can find. The first game of the sessions do not list an attendance, just capacity, so I am assuming these are session numbers

So without W&M as the local draw now sure why you are expecting a high turnout for the finals. I am hoping the semis break 2K listed (This will be telling as to whether W&M fans bought full session books or if they were going game by game. If they bought full sessions we likely are closer to that 2700 tonight, if not then we are in trouble).
03-09-2020 08:29 AM
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J.B. Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
You talk about William and Mary as the "local draw"? You do realize that Williamsburg and DC are 2 1/2 hours apart. It's about the same distance from Drexel to DC as it is from W&M to DC. Technically, Towson is the closet draw and they're an hour away. JMU is also over 2 hours away.

That's why I love where the tournament is. I'd rather have a tournament where everyone has to travel a little bit, rather than one team having a home advantage to draw more fans. I'm still pissed about the 2012 championship game, where I had to take 2 days off from work and spend a lot of money to get to, while the VCU fans who I was sitting near were coming from work.

I really think that regardless of what the attendance is, this is where this tournament should stay for the foreseeable future.
03-09-2020 08:49 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
I am aware of that point and made that drive quite a few times. Yes local draw as in the closest team who actually draws fans. Our conference has 3: UNCW, CofC, W&M. W&M is the local draw for DC. And Yes DC probably has more W&M alums than anywhere else in the country. You are probably correct in that DC has large numbers of alums from most of the schools. I also agree that if we stay neutral location DC makes sense. Richmond does too (But it would need to be at a smaller venue like the Siegel Center, which would never happen). But if the quarterfinal only drew 2700, I do not see that figure going up with the top draw removed.
03-09-2020 09:06 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
(03-09-2020 08:49 AM)J.B. Wrote:  I really think that regardless of what the attendance is, this is where this tournament should stay for the foreseeable future.

Absolutely not. The Mystics arena is a logistical failure, as it has no parking.

I'm fine with the tournament going north every once in a while. But keep it rotating every 3 years as it has been since leaving Richmond.

Baltimore and North Charleston were both fine options. D.C. works too but not at the current arena.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 09:41 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
03-09-2020 09:41 AM
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hiroshimacarp Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
i'm just glad william and mary lost. i didn't want them thinking firing shaver was a good idea.

dc location is a great idea. we almost went down because of that. just need a team worth rooting for. we would have taken public transportation to the game since it looks like the metro stops pretty close (correct me if i'm wrong).
03-09-2020 06:23 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
1,821 attendance last night
03-10-2020 04:55 AM
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J.B. Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
Less than I thought. I also think that the virus scare is keeping people from traveling if they don't have to. The scare is real and will play a little bit into tonight's attendance, which I would expect to be around the same as tonight. It also doesn't help that the CAA jacked up prices for the final, which will keep curious neutral fans away.

Still, I'd rather see low attendance figures than have one school have an unfair fan travel advantage. If attendance means that much, then they should follow the Patriot League model and just play the games on campus sites. But the CAA has always insisted on having their entire basketball championship in one location. That's been debated for 20 years as to whether it's a good model or not.
03-10-2020 06:38 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
When out conference was strong, it made sense to do so. Now? Quite honestly top seed should host the entire event. That is the advantage of winning the regular season. I am ok with first 2 rounds at home sites with just the semis and finals somewhere else (either neutral or top remaining seed). Neutral location tournaments are for conference that can actually draw crowds. That is not the CAA any more.

Obviously it was right in line where i thought. Half is 2100 and I said hopeful for that. I threw the 1800 out but figured sold would be higher. That looks like it is optimistic as well. Having Hofstra win yesterday was a good thing. There may be a slight bump for tonight but I agree I would expect similar turnout. Lose a few Delaware fans, gain a few Hofstra fans. No gain or loss from Elon or Northeastern. Should be a good game tonight. Both games were battles earlier in the year
03-10-2020 07:03 AM
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J.B. Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
(03-10-2020 07:03 AM)dan10 Wrote:  When out conference was strong, it made sense to do so. Now? Quite honestly top seed should host the entire event. That is the advantage of winning the regular season. I am ok with first 2 rounds at home sites with just the semis and finals somewhere else (either neutral or top remaining seed). Neutral location tournaments are for conference that can actually draw crowds. That is not the CAA any more.

Obviously it was right in line where i thought. Half is 2100 and I said hopeful for that. I threw the 1800 out but figured sold would be higher. That looks like it is optimistic as well. Having Hofstra win yesterday was a good thing. There may be a slight bump for tonight but I agree I would expect similar turnout. Lose a few Delaware fans, gain a few Hofstra fans. No gain or loss from Elon or Northeastern. Should be a good game tonight. Both games were battles earlier in the year

I'd actually rather see it the other way, like the way that the America East does it, or at least used to (not sure what the current format is). Play the tournament at a neutral site. Then have a few days off to build up interest for the final. Then have the final at the highest seed's arena. Let's say that the championship game were to be played on Friday or Saturday at Hofstra. There would be so much buzz on campus and in the Long Island area. The media would build up the game. You have a guaranteed sellout of 5,000+. And students would get that unforgettable experience of a championship game on campus. They also would follow the 10% rule, so Northeastern fans would get 500 tickets and a chance to attend as well.

I experienced 6 NAC/America East Finals on campus sites...4 at the DAC, 1 at the Delaware Field House, and 1 at the BOB. And those game were amazing experiences...even the three games that Drexel lost to Delaware.
03-10-2020 07:11 AM
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
(03-09-2020 09:41 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 08:49 AM)J.B. Wrote:  I really think that regardless of what the attendance is, this is where this tournament should stay for the foreseeable future.
Absolutely not. The Mystics arena is a logistical failure, as it has no parking.
There are two lots. The cheaper lot is farther away than fans may be used, but it exists.

(03-10-2020 07:11 AM)J.B. Wrote:  I'd actually rather see it the other way, like the way that the America East does it, or at least used to (not sure what the current format is).
The America East now has every game at the better seed. To save time, the 9 seed isn't invited so there are only three rounds.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2020 08:07 AM by EvanJ.)
03-10-2020 08:05 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)dan10 Wrote:  I doubt that many W&M fans bought full even tickets. That would be the only way you get attendance that high. I don't think the numbers will support it. ... This will be telling as to whether W&M fans bought full session books or if they were going game by game. If they bought full sessions we likely are closer to that 2700 tonight, if not then we are in trouble).

The W&M ticket office told me that they sold 200 full books. The rest of the fans (like me) bought a single session ticket. I would have bought a separate ticket for every game W&M was in. The attendance for the W&M session was 2718 (65% capacity), which was the highest of any session including the finals (only 1926). At least 200 of those 1926 were empty seats from W&M book holders (seriously, they were probably not able to sell very many of their books unless they essentially gave them away). In the W&M game, 95% of the crowd was pro-Tribe (what a wasted turnout). It also looked to me (from my nosebleed seat in the absolute highest row which had an excellent view of the crowd except for any seats under the overhang) that the arena was more than 65% full --- but I also know that leagues will say anything to bolster their attendance numbers so, even after bolstering, if they only report 65% then I guess that is best scenario.

(03-09-2020 08:49 AM)J.B. Wrote:  You talk about William and Mary as the "local draw"? You do realize that Williamsburg and DC are 2 1/2 hours apart.

(03-09-2020 09:06 AM)dan10 Wrote:  ... Yes local draw as in the closest team who actually draws fans. ...And Yes DC probably has more W&M alums than anywhere else in the country.

Yes, W&M has a ton of alumni in the DC metro area. Probably more than anywhere else except maybe Richmond. Plus, the DC folks skew younger so they would be more likely to get a ticket for a fun night on the town (assuming that they went somewhere else in DC after the game).

(03-10-2020 06:38 AM)J.B. Wrote:  Less than I thought. I also think that the virus scare is keeping people from traveling if they don't have to.

And I'm sure that Joey D. will be quick to mention the virus scare if he is asked any questions about possible low attendance at the tournament.
03-11-2020 12:23 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: 2020 CAA Men's Basketball Tournament
Attendance is right where I figured it would be, so no surprises to me.

Also congrats to Hofstra. Glad we are sending our clear best team to the dance.
03-11-2020 05:17 AM
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