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Stammers Online
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Post: #41
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 04:01 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 03:54 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 10:47 AM)Tigerdawg Wrote:  I said this in another thread, and I'm gonna say it again here. JW was deemed "likely ineligible". Not "ineligible". He either is or isn't ineligible. If he's "likely ineligible" then he's still eligible. Can't get much clearer than that to me. We didn't play an ineligible player. We played a "likely ineligible" player after the NCAA reneged on a prior agreement that he would continue to remain eligible. After the season started and he was already enrolled at Memphis and had no other recourse. He got royally screwed by the NCAA , and he's really got grounds to sue the bejeezus out of them.

This whole thing is complete BS.

That's the part I don't understand. Wiseman was said to be "likely ineligible." At some point the NCAA decided through whatever investigation it did to indeed declare him ineligible. We know this because of the punishment that handed down - the 12 game suspension. Until they officially declared him as ineligible, how can they say he was ineligible? And how can they punish a coach or a university for playing a player that had not yet been declared ineligible?

If they ultimately find Will Wade guilty of breaking rules, will LSU get severely punished for using a coach that they knew was under investigation. Because that was basically what Wiseman was - he was a player under investigation. And the investigation finished with a finding and a ruling and a punishment that Wiseman, the coaches, and the university accepted and followed.

I don't get it either. Now the talking head gurus like GP and Bilas and Wolken will say that "likely ineligible" means ineligible. Its semantics due to the timing of the situation. The NCAA notifies that he is "likely ineligible" and then the school has to declare him ineligible and then appeal to the NCAA. Then they conduct their final investigation and issue their final ruling. That's what the "experts" say.

I say poppy-****. The NCAA is getting Penny/Wiseman on a complete technicality with connecting a donation made 12 years ago, to a payment made 2 years ago AS A HIGH SCHOOL COACH, to his play at Memphis. Penny may have technically been a booster - but he was not acting as a booster when he paid Donzelle. NCAA says it doesn't matter because the letter of the law. Well if that's the case, then their words should also matter. And that means "likely ineligible" does NOT equal "ineligible".

I agree completely. It's common sense.
03-09-2020 05:17 PM
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Stammers Online
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Post: #42
RE: Kansas
And that's another thing. Let us know when you are sure if he is eligible or not, and if there will be punishment. In the meantime, he isn't ineligible (your own words) so we will play him, and f**k off.
03-09-2020 05:18 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 04:01 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 03:54 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 10:47 AM)Tigerdawg Wrote:  I said this in another thread, and I'm gonna say it again here. JW was deemed "likely ineligible". Not "ineligible". He either is or isn't ineligible. If he's "likely ineligible" then he's still eligible. Can't get much clearer than that to me. We didn't play an ineligible player. We played a "likely ineligible" player after the NCAA reneged on a prior agreement that he would continue to remain eligible. After the season started and he was already enrolled at Memphis and had no other recourse. He got royally screwed by the NCAA , and he's really got grounds to sue the bejeezus out of them.

This whole thing is complete BS.

That's the part I don't understand. Wiseman was said to be "likely ineligible." At some point the NCAA decided through whatever investigation it did to indeed declare him ineligible. We know this because of the punishment that handed down - the 12 game suspension. Until they officially declared him as ineligible, how can they say he was ineligible? And how can they punish a coach or a university for playing a player that had not yet been declared ineligible?

If they ultimately find Will Wade guilty of breaking rules, will LSU get severely punished for using a coach that they knew was under investigation. Because that was basically what Wiseman was - he was a player under investigation. And the investigation finished with a finding and a ruling and a punishment that Wiseman, the coaches, and the university accepted and followed.

I don't get it either. Now the talking head gurus like GP and Bilas and Wolken will say that "likely ineligible" means ineligible. Its semantics due to the timing of the situation. The NCAA notifies that he is "likely ineligible" and then the school has to declare him ineligible and then appeal to the NCAA. Then they conduct their final investigation and issue their final ruling. That's what the "experts" say.

I say poppy-****. The NCAA is getting Penny/Wiseman on a complete technicality with connecting a donation made 12 years ago, to a payment made 2 years ago AS A HIGH SCHOOL COACH, to his play at Memphis. Penny may have technically been a booster - but he was not acting as a booster when he paid Donzelle. NCAA says it doesn't matter because the letter of the law. Well if that's the case, then their words should also matter. And that means "likely ineligible" does NOT equal "ineligible".

The NCAA is bogus and hypocritical. Hopefully their time is running out. Once this player likeness goes into effect the NCAA could start bleeding money. Should have happened long ago. Good points e1
03-09-2020 06:02 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Kansas
(03-06-2020 02:44 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 09:55 AM)RCM1029 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 09:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 09:13 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  Do people forget that Silvio De Sousa sat out a whole year waiting on the NCAA? That was for accepting $2,500.

Enes Katner and Hamidu Diallo both were ineligible their freshman year at UK.

The NCAA is inconsistent, but they don't necessarily give those schools a pass.

We will be punished for playing an ineligible player. So would any other school.

You get punished for choosing to play an ineligible player...

We didn't choose to play Wiseman the courts compelled us to do so.

Two entirely different things.

The courts "compelled" us to play him? Did the courts also tell us how many minutes per game to play him? Just because the court issued an injunction doesn't mean the coach had to actually put him in the game. That was a decision, a choice, made by the administration and coaching staff...it had nothing to do with the courts

Why do people keep repeating this nonsense?

If you bench the #1 player in the country you would have been held in contempt of court because that would be viewed as enforcing the suspension

Incorrect. Wiseman received a temporary restraining order that allowed him to play...it did not mandate that Memphis play him. Choosing to not play him would not have violated the restraining order.

Good luck with that argument, I can assure you it's a losing battle.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 06:31 PM by TigerBlue4Ever.)
03-09-2020 06:31 PM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Kansas
Several things have been said or implied that still are not factual in the discussion here. Among them are the idea that our university decided to give up the fight & suspend JW. It didn't happen that way, instead JW gave up his fight & that left our university with no choice but to suspend JW & await an NCAA ruling. Next, the fact is that our university was enjoined by the court along with the NCAA from suspending JW. As part of that ruling, the court clearly indicated that the university could not suspend JW related to the NCAA ruling. That being the case there was no other reason not to play JW. So our university didn't "give the NCAA the finger", instead it was JW's suit against both Memphis & the NCAA that defied the NCAA.

Also, related to Kansas, LSU, & AZ (don't know about Auburn), the feds have the head coaches on tape negotiating the terms & amounts to be paid. Those aren't things that can legitimately be denied - they are much different than the JW situation.
03-09-2020 07:53 PM
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Stammers Online
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Post: #46
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 06:31 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 02:44 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 09:55 AM)RCM1029 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 09:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  You get punished for choosing to play an ineligible player...

We didn't choose to play Wiseman the courts compelled us to do so.

Two entirely different things.

The courts "compelled" us to play him? Did the courts also tell us how many minutes per game to play him? Just because the court issued an injunction doesn't mean the coach had to actually put him in the game. That was a decision, a choice, made by the administration and coaching staff...it had nothing to do with the courts

Why do people keep repeating this nonsense?

If you bench the #1 player in the country you would have been held in contempt of court because that would be viewed as enforcing the suspension

Incorrect. Wiseman received a temporary restraining order that allowed him to play...it did not mandate that Memphis play him. Choosing to not play him would not have violated the restraining order.

Good luck with that argument, I can assure you it's a losing battle.

The game box scores make it super easy for guys like him, but it still hasn't registered, for some weird reason.

DNP Coach's Decision.
03-09-2020 08:12 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Kansas
(03-06-2020 10:39 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Kansas will get hit with something. Unsure on LSU and AZ

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

LSU HAS to be nailed.
"Strong ass offer".... everybody knows about the recording.
03-11-2020 01:18 AM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 07:53 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Several things have been said or implied that still are not factual in the discussion here. Among them are the idea that our university decided to give up the fight & suspend JW. It didn't happen that way, instead JW gave up his fight & that left our university with no choice but to suspend JW & await an NCAA ruling. Next, the fact is that our university was enjoined by the court along with the NCAA from suspending JW. As part of that ruling, the court clearly indicated that the university could not suspend JW related to the NCAA ruling. That being the case there was no other reason not to play JW. So our university didn't "give the NCAA the finger", instead it was JW's suit against both Memphis & the NCAA that defied the NCAA.

Also, related to Kansas, LSU, & AZ (don't know about Auburn), the feds have the head coaches on tape negotiating the terms & amounts to be paid. Those aren't things that can legitimately be denied - they are much different than the JW situation.

I think an issue is that the feds aren't releasing the information to the NCAA. The NCAA will see schools like Kansas dig in and fight w/o the proof collected.
03-11-2020 01:22 AM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 01:22 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 07:53 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Several things have been said or implied that still are not factual in the discussion here. Among them are the idea that our university decided to give up the fight & suspend JW. It didn't happen that way, instead JW gave up his fight & that left our university with no choice but to suspend JW & await an NCAA ruling. Next, the fact is that our university was enjoined by the court along with the NCAA from suspending JW. As part of that ruling, the court clearly indicated that the university could not suspend JW related to the NCAA ruling. That being the case there was no other reason not to play JW. So our university didn't "give the NCAA the finger", instead it was JW's suit against both Memphis & the NCAA that defied the NCAA.

Also, related to Kansas, LSU, & AZ (don't know about Auburn), the feds have the head coaches on tape negotiating the terms & amounts to be paid. Those aren't things that can legitimately be denied - they are much different than the JW situation.

I think an issue is that the feds aren't releasing the information to the NCAA. The NCAA will see schools like Kansas dig in and fight w/o the proof collected.

They need to get their own proof and information. It shouldn't be hard, now that the cat is out of the bag. But I haven't heard that they have interviewed a single person about LSU.
03-11-2020 09:08 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 09:08 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 01:22 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 07:53 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Several things have been said or implied that still are not factual in the discussion here. Among them are the idea that our university decided to give up the fight & suspend JW. It didn't happen that way, instead JW gave up his fight & that left our university with no choice but to suspend JW & await an NCAA ruling. Next, the fact is that our university was enjoined by the court along with the NCAA from suspending JW. As part of that ruling, the court clearly indicated that the university could not suspend JW related to the NCAA ruling. That being the case there was no other reason not to play JW. So our university didn't "give the NCAA the finger", instead it was JW's suit against both Memphis & the NCAA that defied the NCAA.

Also, related to Kansas, LSU, & AZ (don't know about Auburn), the feds have the head coaches on tape negotiating the terms & amounts to be paid. Those aren't things that can legitimately be denied - they are much different than the JW situation.

I think an issue is that the feds aren't releasing the information to the NCAA. The NCAA will see schools like Kansas dig in and fight w/o the proof collected.

They need to get their own proof and information. It shouldn't be hard, now that the cat is out of the bag. But I haven't heard that they have interviewed a single person about LSU.

Why, info behind the indictments is public information.
03-11-2020 09:31 AM
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former guest Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Kansas
That would be the telling tale. What happens when the investigator says “you were heard on tape offering a strong-ass offer to a recruit” and LSU responds “prove it.” If they don’t have the recording, but know of it’s existence, do they have a case? Can they impose penalties on a semi-blueblood based on it? What precedents are then set for future investigations?

As much as I hate the whole smelly thing, I can see a scenario where nothing comes of it of real consequence in penalties.
03-11-2020 09:43 AM
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tigerbologna Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 01:18 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 10:39 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Kansas will get hit with something. Unsure on LSU and AZ

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

LSU HAS to be nailed.
"Strong ass offer".... everybody knows about the recording.

It’s the $EC though...possibly the most overrated bball conference around.
03-11-2020 10:32 AM
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msu89 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 09:43 AM)former guest Wrote:  That would be the telling tale. What happens when the investigator says “you were heard on tape offering a strong-ass offer to a recruit” and LSU responds “prove it.” If they don’t have the recording, but know of it’s existence, do they have a case? Can they impose penalties on a semi-blueblood based on it? What precedents are then set for future investigations?

As much as I hate the whole smelly thing, I can see a scenario where nothing comes of it of real consequence in penalties.

But the NCAA doesnt need "proof" for a court of law. They can rule however they want for any reason. But they won't because they dont want to.
And this likeness thing wont affect the NCAA one bit. Just enables the money schools to bribe right out in the open. Makes me sick
03-11-2020 11:10 AM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 09:31 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 09:08 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 01:22 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 07:53 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Several things have been said or implied that still are not factual in the discussion here. Among them are the idea that our university decided to give up the fight & suspend JW. It didn't happen that way, instead JW gave up his fight & that left our university with no choice but to suspend JW & await an NCAA ruling. Next, the fact is that our university was enjoined by the court along with the NCAA from suspending JW. As part of that ruling, the court clearly indicated that the university could not suspend JW related to the NCAA ruling. That being the case there was no other reason not to play JW. So our university didn't "give the NCAA the finger", instead it was JW's suit against both Memphis & the NCAA that defied the NCAA.

Also, related to Kansas, LSU, & AZ (don't know about Auburn), the feds have the head coaches on tape negotiating the terms & amounts to be paid. Those aren't things that can legitimately be denied - they are much different than the JW situation.

I think an issue is that the feds aren't releasing the information to the NCAA. The NCAA will see schools like Kansas dig in and fight w/o the proof collected.

They need to get their own proof and information. It shouldn't be hard, now that the cat is out of the bag. But I haven't heard that they have interviewed a single person about LSU.

Why, info behind the indictments is public information.

Their excuse is that the FBI won't give them the wire taps, so there's nothing going on.
03-11-2020 01:10 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 05:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  And that's another thing. Let us know when you are sure if he is eligible or not, and if there will be punishment. In the meantime, he isn't ineligible (your own words) so we will play him, and f**k off.

This would be one of my primary arguments. He had not been formally ruled ineligible, so he was still technically eligible from the previous formal notification. Notifying us that he was “likely ineligible” should be viewed as a courtesy that we MIGHT have to forfeit games he plays in...not, you will be severely punished if you play him.
03-11-2020 01:14 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 01:14 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 05:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  And that's another thing. Let us know when you are sure if he is eligible or not, and if there will be punishment. In the meantime, he isn't ineligible (your own words) so we will play him, and f**k off.

This would be one of my primary arguments. He had not been formally ruled ineligible, so he was still technically eligible from the previous formal notification. Notifying us that he was “likely ineligible” should be viewed as a courtesy that we MIGHT have to forfeit games he plays in...not, you will be severely punished if you play him.

An intelligent person would look at it that way. We're talking about the NCAA however.....
03-11-2020 01:32 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Kansas
(03-11-2020 01:32 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 01:14 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 05:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  And that's another thing. Let us know when you are sure if he is eligible or not, and if there will be punishment. In the meantime, he isn't ineligible (your own words) so we will play him, and f**k off.

This would be one of my primary arguments. He had not been formally ruled ineligible, so he was still technically eligible from the previous formal notification. Notifying us that he was “likely ineligible” should be viewed as a courtesy that we MIGHT have to forfeit games he plays in...not, you will be severely punished if you play him.

An intelligent person would look at it that way. We're talking about the NCAA however.....

Hopefully, the independent board will see it our way, that should be the benefit of going through them instead of the NCAA enforcement committee.
03-11-2020 02:48 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Kansas
(03-06-2020 08:59 AM)tigerlands Wrote:  Yep, that was a
(03-06-2020 08:52 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 07:35 AM)stripey Wrote:  Kansas denies any wrongdoing. That should be enough for the NCAA...right?

It was enough in 2008 when Darrel Arthur's grades were changed. Kansas made a statement saying that they knew nothing about it and they considered the case closed.

Our dream team of Shirley, RC and Lippman chose a slightly different, slightly less effective approach. Lippman became the only representative of a school in NCAA history to get tricked into agreeing that a player was hypothetically ineligible, even though there was no proof and the player hadn't even been interviewed.

Yep. That was the weakest bunch of folks we could have possibly sent to present our case. I didn't understand it then and I still don't understand it to this day. I would have hired the biggest hotshot lawyer I could find to protect the school.
05-stirthepot It sure worked for O.J. Simpson didn't it ?????
03-13-2020 06:20 AM
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memphistiger89 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Kansas
(03-09-2020 06:02 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 04:01 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 03:54 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  
(03-06-2020 10:47 AM)Tigerdawg Wrote:  I said this in another thread, and I'm gonna say it again here. JW was deemed "likely ineligible". Not "ineligible". He either is or isn't ineligible. If he's "likely ineligible" then he's still eligible. Can't get much clearer than that to me. We didn't play an ineligible player. We played a "likely ineligible" player after the NCAA reneged on a prior agreement that he would continue to remain eligible. After the season started and he was already enrolled at Memphis and had no other recourse. He got royally screwed by the NCAA , and he's really got grounds to sue the bejeezus out of them.

This whole thing is complete BS.

That's the part I don't understand. Wiseman was said to be "likely ineligible." At some point the NCAA decided through whatever investigation it did to indeed declare him ineligible. We know this because of the punishment that handed down - the 12 game suspension. Until they officially declared him as ineligible, how can they say he was ineligible? And how can they punish a coach or a university for playing a player that had not yet been declared ineligible?

If they ultimately find Will Wade guilty of breaking rules, will LSU get severely punished for using a coach that they knew was under investigation. Because that was basically what Wiseman was - he was a player under investigation. And the investigation finished with a finding and a ruling and a punishment that Wiseman, the coaches, and the university accepted and followed.

I don't get it either. Now the talking head gurus like GP and Bilas and Wolken will say that "likely ineligible" means ineligible. Its semantics due to the timing of the situation. The NCAA notifies that he is "likely ineligible" and then the school has to declare him ineligible and then appeal to the NCAA. Then they conduct their final investigation and issue their final ruling. That's what the "experts" say.

I say poppy-****. The NCAA is getting Penny/Wiseman on a complete technicality with connecting a donation made 12 years ago, to a payment made 2 years ago AS A HIGH SCHOOL COACH, to his play at Memphis. Penny may have technically been a booster - but he was not acting as a booster when he paid Donzelle. NCAA says it doesn't matter because the letter of the law. Well if that's the case, then their words should also matter. And that means "likely ineligible" does NOT equal "ineligible".

The NCAA is bogus and hypocritical. Hopefully their time is running out. Once this player likeness goes into effect the NCAA could start bleeding money. Should have happened long ago. Good points e1

I think the NCAA as we know it will be over, sooner than later. Most of the top schools from the Privileged 5 will form their own association to hog even more of the money and that will be that. Memphis will one of those on the outside looking in. I'm really wondering how much longer college sports can keep my interest.
03-13-2020 06:45 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Kansas
(03-06-2020 09:13 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  Do people forget that Silvio De Sousa sat out a whole year waiting on the NCAA? That was for accepting $2,500.

Enes Katner and Hamidu Diallo both were ineligible their freshman year at UK.

The NCAA is inconsistent, but they don't necessarily give those schools a pass.

We will be punished for playing an ineligible player. So would any other school.

We played a "likely ineligible player".
03-13-2020 11:19 AM
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