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Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #221
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-10-2020 08:08 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 07:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 06:25 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:49 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 11:18 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Jerry Tarkanian has nothing to do with this situation, it's a false equivalency. I and others have repeatedly laid out the text of the injunction and argued that we were not forced to play him by the TRO. You're the one who keeps straying from that fact. In all the time I've posted have you ever known me to troll? No. And I'm not doing it here. My statement that the TRO did not FORCE us to play him is 1000% factual, it's right there in plain English. I'm not trying to stir any pot or be controversial and I am not alone in that assessment. I'm not spinning anything simply to advance a narrative, I'm telling you exactly how the TRO was worded, I even provide the text of the TRO.

Hell, I've been one of your biggest fans and supporters but you simply can't bring yourself to understand the simple point I'm making without trying to extrapolate it out to me stating he shouldn't have played him. I've said no such thing in regards to this thread or to the TRO. But hey, you do you. I'm still a fan and still admire your knowledge of the game. FTR, I've exercised great restraint in not resorting to insults like I might have done with some other posters. I should just let it go but in the simplest possible terms we were not FORCED to play him by anything in that document. I do now think that by us playing him for two games he ended up with a 12 game suspension and never played for us again so I think it's entirely possible that had we not played him the 12 game suspension MIGHT have been far fewer and he might still be here. It can be argued that the 12 game suspension was the result of the 11.5 k as well but we'll never really know now.

I'm now going to abandon my argument, you and the others who think we were forced by the TRO to play him win.

04-cheers and GTG.

I should have replied to Griffin as that is to whom I was referring and the Tark case is a very similar situation.

NCAA tells school to suspend Tark for violations...
Tark runs to court
Tark continues to coach.
Tark nor the school gets punished.

Exactly --like I have been saying---the mistake was made when he stopped playing and the lawsuit dropped.

With the verbiage "likely ineligible "---instead of INELIGIBLE--we would have been fools not to play him,

Eh...I cant say I agree with that...

I think the purpose of the lawsuit was to force the NCAA to commit to a punishment. There have been some situations where kids took less money and missed an entire season.

Can you give examples where kids took less money and missed an entire season without some other infraction?

That isn't the entire point. Enes Kanter's appeal took a year. The NCAA made their first decision in May, and decided in November that he was probably ineligible; which isn't even a decision at all. So it took 7 months for those ******* crooks to make a statement that was essentially meaningless; a statement which by its wording was a statement that they STILL hadn't decided.
03-11-2020 08:21 AM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #222
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.
03-11-2020 08:30 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #223
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-10-2020 05:14 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:40 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:02 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:36 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  There’s enough history and this was mentioned plenty of times with examples when the suspension was handed down, standard punishment for around this dollar amount is 9 games. IMO the additional 3 games were cuz he played 3 games while he was “likely ineligible.”

It has been mentioned plenty of times, but not supported with facts plenty of times. It keeps getting mentioned because GP keeps saying it as a "fact", and so people take him at his word. When it is really not a fact. And I provided a long list of punishments varying from one-third of the season, to permanent ineligibility to support my argument that it is unknown what the punishment would have been.

I had provided a list of punishments that indicated 9 games is about the length for around 10k or so. I have no desire to dig that up.

There is not hard and fast fact but we can look at history. Even before the punishment came down, 9 games at least IMO would have been the max punishment. A few media outlets indicated that as well. It’s not unusual to conclude NCAA tacked on 3 more games for playing him 3 games while being “likely ineligible.”

9 games, we do not fight it, wiseman has a plan to pay back - that is cut in half 4 or 5 games. He would still be here.

Tell me what you think of this timeline.

Silvio De Sousa
October 2018 - Guardian alleged to have received 60k, payment of $2,500 payment made.
February 2019 - NCAA declares him ineligible for 2019 AND 2020 seasons for $2,500 payment
May 2019 - NCAA clears him for play...1 year and 7 months later

Tell me what you think of this timeline.

May 2020 - NCAA declares Wiseman eligible.
June or July 2020 - NCAA declares Wiseman still eligible, despite error
November 2020 - NCAA declares that Wiseman is probably ineligible
November 2020 - We sit Wiseman
August 2021 - On appeal, NCAA retroactively suspends Wiseman for 4 games.

100% acceptable - No suspension
100% acceptable - NCAA makes error but doesn't renege on no suspension
25% acceptable - Renege on no suspension, but announce immediately that it is 4 games
0% acceptable - Literally everything the NCAA has done since June

Guys like you confuse me. Other schools get away with so much **** that is literally 100X worse than us, and you say we deserve punishment, and you have the strange notion that the NCAA treats us fairly and would have treated us fairly in this instance.
03-11-2020 08:34 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #224
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.
03-11-2020 08:39 AM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #225
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-10-2020 02:40 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:02 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:36 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  There’s enough history and this was mentioned plenty of times with examples when the suspension was handed down, standard punishment for around this dollar amount is 9 games. IMO the additional 3 games were cuz he played 3 games while he was “likely ineligible.”

It has been mentioned plenty of times, but not supported with facts plenty of times. It keeps getting mentioned because GP keeps saying it as a "fact", and so people take him at his word. When it is really not a fact. And I provided a long list of punishments varying from one-third of the season, to permanent ineligibility to support my argument that it is unknown what the punishment would have been.

I had provided a list of punishments that indicated 9 games is about the length for around 10k or so. I have no desire to dig that up.

There is not hard and fast fact but we can look at history. Even before the punishment came down, 9 games at least IMO would have been the max punishment. A few media outlets indicated that as well. It’s not unusual to conclude NCAA tacked on 3 more games for playing him 3 games while being “likely ineligible.”

Provide the list now, since you are so sure of your data and keep arguing about it.

I posted mine here. Don't have time to repost it now, but I will see if I can search the site some time today. Unless someone else with time wants to find it for me, lol. Would have been a post - maybe even a thread started by me - sometime around the Nov-Dec timeline.
03-11-2020 09:58 AM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 08:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.

There you go again with the unnecessary jabs. I frankly don't care about folks like you. You are inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

I responded to mcgar where he claimed players with a lot less than 11k in benefits received season long suspension. I just wanted examples. You chimed in with Kanter and the process taking a year when my convo with mcgar had nothing to do with that. You changed the topic and I tried to bring it back to the dollar amount.
03-11-2020 10:05 AM
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tigerbologna Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 08:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.

So is this fake life?
03-11-2020 10:27 AM
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Halfcourt Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-10-2020 05:14 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:40 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:02 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:36 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  There’s enough history and this was mentioned plenty of times with examples when the suspension was handed down, standard punishment for around this dollar amount is 9 games. IMO the additional 3 games were cuz he played 3 games while he was “likely ineligible.”

It has been mentioned plenty of times, but not supported with facts plenty of times. It keeps getting mentioned because GP keeps saying it as a "fact", and so people take him at his word. When it is really not a fact. And I provided a long list of punishments varying from one-third of the season, to permanent ineligibility to support my argument that it is unknown what the punishment would have been.

I had provided a list of punishments that indicated 9 games is about the length for around 10k or so. I have no desire to dig that up.

There is not hard and fast fact but we can look at history. Even before the punishment came down, 9 games at least IMO would have been the max punishment. A few media outlets indicated that as well. It’s not unusual to conclude NCAA tacked on 3 more games for playing him 3 games while being “likely ineligible.”

9 games, we do not fight it, wiseman has a plan to pay back - that is cut in half 4 or 5 games. He would still be here.

Revisionist history. It's just as likely the saga endured the entire season as your 4-5 game scenario. There are no firm standards and/or transparency with the NCAA.

All of your facts present the UofM at fault, this is not the case. The NCAA has some culpability. Not nearly as clear-cut as you represent.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2020 10:34 AM by Halfcourt.)
03-11-2020 10:32 AM
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gusrob Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 10:32 AM)Halfcourt Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 05:14 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:40 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:02 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:36 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  There’s enough history and this was mentioned plenty of times with examples when the suspension was handed down, standard punishment for around this dollar amount is 9 games. IMO the additional 3 games were cuz he played 3 games while he was “likely ineligible.”

It has been mentioned plenty of times, but not supported with facts plenty of times. It keeps getting mentioned because GP keeps saying it as a "fact", and so people take him at his word. When it is really not a fact. And I provided a long list of punishments varying from one-third of the season, to permanent ineligibility to support my argument that it is unknown what the punishment would have been.

I had provided a list of punishments that indicated 9 games is about the length for around 10k or so. I have no desire to dig that up.

There is not hard and fast fact but we can look at history. Even before the punishment came down, 9 games at least IMO would have been the max punishment. A few media outlets indicated that as well. It’s not unusual to conclude NCAA tacked on 3 more games for playing him 3 games while being “likely ineligible.”

9 games, we do not fight it, wiseman has a plan to pay back - that is cut in half 4 or 5 games. He would still be here.

Revisionist history. It's just as likely the saga endured the entire season as your 4-5 game scenario. There are no firm standards and/or transparency with the NCAA.

All of your facts present the UofM at fault, this is not the case. The NCAA has some culpability. Not nearly as clear-cut as you represent.

Thank you! I'm tired of hearing people speak as if they know how/when the NCAA would have ruled in the JW case without the court's involvement. Anybody that pretends to know is talking out their ***. I'm talking about griffin (who's posts I've enjoyed), GP, Bilas and anyone else touting this as fact. Why is everyone so quick to carry the NCAA's jock?!

The only thing consistent about NCAA rulings is inconsistency. And appears that they hammer smaller schools while turning their heads to issues concerning blue bloods.

NO reason to think they would have slapped us on the wrist and let us continue on our merry way. NO REASON. But I, like everyone else, don't know how this plays out in a parallel universe with different paths taken. Can we please quit pretending we know what the NCAA would have done given different circumstances?
03-11-2020 11:05 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 10:05 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.

There you go again with the unnecessary jabs. I frankly don't care about folks like you. You are inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

I responded to mcgar where he claimed players with a lot less than 11k in benefits received season long suspension. I just wanted examples. You chimed in with Kanter and the process taking a year when my convo with mcgar had nothing to do with that. You changed the topic and I tried to bring it back to the dollar amount.

Sorry you can't read and so sorry that I didn't go along with your topic change. Like I said, in real life I don't waste my time with guys like you.
03-11-2020 05:15 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #231
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 10:27 AM)tigerbologna Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.

So is this fake life?

It's real but in a different dimension.
03-11-2020 05:16 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #232
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 05:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 10:05 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(03-11-2020 08:30 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  Kanter - $33K
Not even in the same ballpark
The Turkish league refused to work with UK to get Kanter eligible.

In real life I wouldn't even deal with guys like you. You don't know how to read and your point strengthens my argument. 33k and the process takes a year. It should have taken a week.

There you go again with the unnecessary jabs. I frankly don't care about folks like you. You are inconsequential in the larger scheme of things.

I responded to mcgar where he claimed players with a lot less than 11k in benefits received season long suspension. I just wanted examples. You chimed in with Kanter and the process taking a year when my convo with mcgar had nothing to do with that. You changed the topic and I tried to bring it back to the dollar amount.

Sorry you can't read and so sorry that I didn't go along with your topic change. Like I said, in real life I don't waste my time with guys like you.

Nor do I
But since this is fake life, sometimes I have to deal with low life losers like you.
03-11-2020 06:25 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-11-2020 09:58 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:40 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 02:02 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(03-10-2020 08:36 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  There’s enough history and this was mentioned plenty of times with examples when the suspension was handed down, standard punishment for around this dollar amount is 9 games. IMO the additional 3 games were cuz he played 3 games while he was “likely ineligible.”

It has been mentioned plenty of times, but not supported with facts plenty of times. It keeps getting mentioned because GP keeps saying it as a "fact", and so people take him at his word. When it is really not a fact. And I provided a long list of punishments varying from one-third of the season, to permanent ineligibility to support my argument that it is unknown what the punishment would have been.

I had provided a list of punishments that indicated 9 games is about the length for around 10k or so. I have no desire to dig that up.

There is not hard and fast fact but we can look at history. Even before the punishment came down, 9 games at least IMO would have been the max punishment. A few media outlets indicated that as well. It’s not unusual to conclude NCAA tacked on 3 more games for playing him 3 games while being “likely ineligible.”

Provide the list now, since you are so sure of your data and keep arguing about it.

I posted mine here. Don't have time to repost it now, but I will see if I can search the site some time today. Unless someone else with time wants to find it for me, lol. Would have been a post - maybe even a thread started by me - sometime around the Nov-Dec timeline.

1016,
I see you don't have data to back up your claim. Here is my OP on the topic back on 11/29/19...

****I spent a few minutes researching NCAA penalties for impermissible benefits. Just wanted to look at the range of penalties - since so many people are saying it's obvious that Wiseman would have received 9 games (33%) had we not fought.

I simply googled NCAA scandals and impermissible benefits, then made a list of the results over the past 10 years. Here are the results of schools, amount of the illegal benefit, and % of a single season suspended (leaving out the player names to keep this simple) - both football and basketball:

Memphis $12k = 39%
Ohio State $? = 17%
Auburn $6k = 130%
Auburn $11k = 100%
Kansas $23k = 100%
Georgia $3k = 33%
So Carolina $3k = 33%
Boise $1k = 33%
Ohio State $3k = 42%
Georgia $1k = 33%
Baylor $4k = 20%
Duke $68k = 0%

Obviously, this is not all-inclusive. But it is everything that I came across during the time spent searching. No cherry picking. I didn't list all the FBI stuff since those investigations are "still pending".

The first thing that jumps out is that one of these is not like the others (hint: Duke). The other is the wide disparity in penalties. There is no obvious scale to what they are applying. 33% does pop-up a lot, but that penalty was not seen on any player receiving more than $3k. For players receiving $10k and above, other than James and Duke, the minimum suspension was 100%.****
03-12-2020 11:16 AM
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memtigbb Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
Georgia Tech is so lucky. Perfect timing for them to take their post season ban. They could not have planned it any better.
03-12-2020 02:42 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-12-2020 02:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Georgia Tech is so lucky. Perfect timing for them to take their post season ban. They could not have planned it any better.

But like I mentioned to you in another thread (you may have missed it), theirs wasn't self-imposed. How likely would a self-imposed ban get credit if the postseason doesn't exist in the first place? I can see GT being ok since the NCAA themselves said the ban is for this postseason.
03-12-2020 03:47 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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Post: #236
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-12-2020 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(03-12-2020 02:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Georgia Tech is so lucky. Perfect timing for them to take their post season ban. They could not have planned it any better.

But like I mentioned to you in another thread (you may have missed it), theirs wasn't self-imposed. How likely would a self-imposed ban get credit if the postseason doesn't exist in the first place? I can see GT being ok since the NCAA themselves said the ban is for this postseason.

Yes, I know but it doesnt make it any less lucky and perfect timing for them to drop the appeal.
03-12-2020 03:51 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #237
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
(03-12-2020 03:51 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(03-12-2020 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(03-12-2020 02:42 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Georgia Tech is so lucky. Perfect timing for them to take their post season ban. They could not have planned it any better.

But like I mentioned to you in another thread (you may have missed it), theirs wasn't self-imposed. How likely would a self-imposed ban get credit if the postseason doesn't exist in the first place? I can see GT being ok since the NCAA themselves said the ban is for this postseason.

Yes, I know but it doesnt make it any less lucky and perfect timing for them to drop the appeal.

I gotcha now. GT can say "no takebacks", lol.
03-12-2020 05:11 PM
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cmt Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Memphis’ infractions case will be resolved through the IARP
Stop it

Kanter played on a professional basketball team.

Others received money to play for or were already playing for the booster's/coach's school.

Others had hookers brought to their room by coaches.

Others had someone take a ACT for them

Others suddenly had new cars and their parents were in new houses with no visible means of support

Others had their high school transcripts altered

Wiseman's mother got $11,500 from Penny so they could move to Memphis and play for his AAU team. Wiseman was a kid and Penny was no where near a Tiger coach.

The NCAA knows every case is different, they hide behind that, so they can do whatever is in their, not the member school's, best interest. And keeping teams like Memphis down is what they've been doing since the late 1960s', and then it went to a whole new level in the mid 1980s' with ESPN and the 64 team tournament.

Before the 1970's teams like San Francisco, UTEP, Loyola of Illinois, LaSalle and CCNY won championships, the closest thing to that happening recently is UNLV in 1990 and we all know what happened after that.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020 06:07 PM by cmt.)
03-12-2020 06:06 PM
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