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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #1
WAC Tourney Seeding

(This post was last modified: 03-03-2020 04:40 PM by CrimsonPhantom.)
03-02-2020 05:38 PM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #2
RE: WAC Touney Seeding
(03-02-2020 05:38 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Y'all hogged all the wins. What else do you expect?

Seriously, all it really means is that 2 through 6 (not counting CBU) are all evenly matched at roughly a 50% record minus NMSU's cut.

Still think there's maybe a 15% chance one of us will knock you out in the semis or the final.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 06:01 PM by edinburger.)
03-02-2020 05:56 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #3
RE: WAC Touney Seeding
Just for an example just to sort through who might be the 2nd seed (best I can figure)...

1 Seed – 16-0 or 15-1 NMSU
2 Seed – 9-7 UTRGV (if wins against CBU (10-6)) – Tie Breaker UTRGV swept UMKC (if 9-7) & split with Seattle U.; CBU split with UTRGV but swept Seattle U. (if 9-7).
2 Seed – 9-7 Seattle U. (if Seattle wins against UMKC (8-8) & Chicago State (0-16) and UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5))
2 Seed – 9-7 UMKC (if UMKC wins @ UVU (6-10) & @ Seattle U (8-8) and UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5))
2 Seed – 8-8 GCU (if GCU wins against CSUB (6-10), UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5), UMKC (8-8) wins @ Seattle U (8-8) but losses @ UVU (7-9)) – Tie Breaker GCU split with CBU, UTRGV, Seattle U., and swept UMKC, CBU swept UTRGV & Seattle; Head-to-head GCU 4-2, UTRGV 4-2, UMKC 3-3, Seattle U. 2-4
2 Seed – 8-8 UTRGV (if losses to CBU (11-5) and UMKC (8-8) wins @ Seattle (8-8) U but losses to UVU (7-9) and GCU (7-9) losses to CSUB (7-9)) – Tie Breaker UTRGV swept UMKC and split with Seattle U. Head to head UTRGV (3-1), UMKC (2-2), Seattle U (1-3)
2 Seed – 8-8 GCU (if GCU wins against CSUB (6-10), UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5), UMKC (8-8) losses @ Seattle U (8-8) & wins @ UVU (7-9) and Seattle U (8-8) losses to Chicago State (1-15)) GCU swept UMKC, GCU split with CBU, UTRGV & Seattle U, CBU swept UTRGV & Seattle U. Head-to-head GCU 4-2, UTRGV 4-2, Seattle U. 3-3, UMKC 2-4

This will not be resolved until Saturday since UTRGV doesn't play CBU until Saturday; Seattle U. plays UM Kansas City on Saturday. And, if UM Kansas City loses to UVU on Thursday, it could open the door for GCU if they beat CSUB on Saturday, UTRGV losses to CBU, and UMKC wins at Seattle U.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2020 02:45 AM by NMSUPistolPete.)
03-02-2020 07:28 PM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: WAC Touney Seeding
(03-02-2020 07:28 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Just for an example just to sort through who might be the 2nd seed (best I can figure)...

1 Seed – 16-0 or 15-1 NMSU
2 Seed – 9-7 UTRGV (if wins against CBU (10-6)) – Tie Breaker UTRGV swept UMKC (if 9-7) & split with Seattle U.; CBU split with UTRGV but swept Seattle U. (if 9-7).
2 Seed – 9-7 Seattle U. (if Seattle wins against UMKC (8-8) & Chicago State (0-16) and UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5))
2 Seed – 9-7 UMKC (if UMKC wins @ UVU (6-10) & @ Seattle U (8-8) and UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5))
2 Seed – 8-8 GCU (if GCU wins against CSUB (6-10), UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5), UMKC (8-8) wins @ Seattle U (8-8) but losses @ UVU (7-9)) – Tie Breaker GCU split with CBU, UTRGV, Seattle U., and swept UMKC, CBU swept UTRGV& Seattle
2 Seed – 8-8 UTRGV (if losses to CBU (11-5) and UMKC (8-8) wins @ Seattle (8-8) U but losses to UVU (7-9) and GCU (7-9) losses to CSUB (7-9)) – Tie Breaker UTRGV swept UMKC and CBU split with UTRGV but swept Seattle U.
2 Seed – 8-8 GCU (if GCU wins against CSUB (6-10), UTRGV (8-8) losses to CBU (11-5), UMKC (8-8) losses @ Seattle U (8-8) & wins @ UVU (7-9) and Seattle U (8-8) losses to Chicago State (1-15)) GCU swept UMKC, GCU split with CBU, UTRGV & Seattle U, CBU swept UTRGV & Seattle U.

This will not be resolved until Saturday since UTRGV doesn't play CBU until Saturday; Seattle U. plays UM Kansas City on Saturday. And, if UM Kansas City loses to UVU on Thursday, it could open the door for GCU if they beat CSUB on Saturday, UTRGV losses to CBU, and UMKC wins at Seattle U.

Thanks for working all that out. Four teams still in the running for #2 seed, but not sure it's that much of a prize since UVU and CSUB aren't pushovers.
03-03-2020 12:04 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #5
RE: WAC Touney Seeding
I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.
03-03-2020 12:14 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #6
RE: WAC Touney Seeding
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.
03-03-2020 01:11 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #7
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-03-2020 01:11 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.

The Aggies really only have an 8 man rotation right now. Shawn Williams is not really playing anymore.

Starters
Gilyard
Rice
Queen
McCants
Ivan

Bench
Brown
Buchanan
Bobbitt
McNair

Brown is getting starter minutes off the bench and is interchangeable with the starters. Buchanan gets a solid 20 minutes a game but he's a role player. McNair gets maybe 5 minutes a game. Bobbitt is a former starter that continues to see his minutes shrink. He will still get 15-20 a game. The point is, we do not have a lot of depth and will be just as winded as any other team on day 3. This is the year you want to take a shot at us in the title game.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2020 05:41 PM by PojoaquePosse.)
03-03-2020 05:07 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #8
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-03-2020 05:07 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 01:11 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.

The Aggies really only have an 8 man rotation right now. Shawn Williams is not really playing anymore.

Starters
Gilyard
Rice
Queen
McCants
Ivan

Bench
Brown
Buchanan
McNair

Brown is getting starter minutes off the bench and is interchangeable with the starters. Buchanan gets a solid 20 minutes a game but he's a role player. McNair gets maybe 5 minutes a game. The point is, we do not have a lot of depth and will be just as winded as any other team on day 3. This is the year you want to take a shot at us in the title game.

You left out CJ Bobbitt.
03-03-2020 05:33 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #9
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-03-2020 05:33 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 05:07 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 01:11 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.

The Aggies really only have an 8 man rotation right now. Shawn Williams is not really playing anymore.

Starters
Gilyard
Rice
Queen
McCants
Ivan

Bench
Brown
Buchanan
McNair

Brown is getting starter minutes off the bench and is interchangeable with the starters. Buchanan gets a solid 20 minutes a game but he's a role player. McNair gets maybe 5 minutes a game. The point is, we do not have a lot of depth and will be just as winded as any other team on day 3. This is the year you want to take a shot at us in the title game.

You left out CJ Bobbitt.

Good catch. I felt I was missing someone. Maybe it was wishful thinking as I am not a big fan of Bobbitt. In an case, I updated my post.
03-03-2020 05:42 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #10
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-03-2020 05:07 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 01:11 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.

The Aggies really only have an 8 man rotation right now. Shawn Williams is not really playing anymore.

Starters
Gilyard
Rice
Queen
McCants
Ivan

Bench
Brown
Buchanan
Bobbitt
McNair

Brown is getting starter minutes off the bench and is interchangeable with the starters. Buchanan gets a solid 20 minutes a game but he's a role player. McNair gets maybe 5 minutes a game. Bobbitt is a former starter that continues to see his minutes shrink. He will still get 15-20 a game. The point is, we do not have a lot of depth and will be just as winded as any other team on day 3. This is the year you want to take a shot at us in the title game.

Sounds like the exact kind of player that would have a career game against GCU at this point. 02-13-banana02-13-banana02-13-banana
03-03-2020 05:45 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #11
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-03-2020 05:07 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 01:11 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(03-03-2020 12:14 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I don't really think seeds #2-7 really matter. The 2-7 place teams have cannibalized itself this year and I don't really see any big advantage being a #2 seed. To illustrate if GCU ends up being the #2 seed and has to play #7 seed UVU they are playing a team that swept them during the regular season. 2-7 teams just need to win. The only disadvantage is being a #4 and #5 seed cause those teams will have to play NMSU in the 2nd round. No bueno.

I get that this is a popular/common thought process, but I don't understand why. If anyone other than NMSU has hopes of hoisting that trophy, they are going to have to go through the Aggies one way or another. Being totally honest, I'd rather do it on Day 2 with fresher legs, rather than while playing a third game in three days.

GCU learned this lesson the hard way last year. The hard truth of it is the Aggies are built for deep runs in March. Given their depth and tenacity, I think getting NMSU on Day 3 only plays directly into their strengths, and the weaknesses of almost every other WAC team hoping to knock the king off the throne.

The Aggies really only have an 8 man rotation right now. Shawn Williams is not really playing anymore.

Starters
Gilyard
Rice
Queen
McCants
Ivan

Bench
Brown
Buchanan
Bobbitt
McNair

Brown is getting starter minutes off the bench and is interchangeable with the starters. Buchanan gets a solid 20 minutes a game but he's a role player. McNair gets maybe 5 minutes a game. Bobbitt is a former starter that continues to see his minutes shrink. He will still get 15-20 a game. The point is, we do not have a lot of depth and will be just as winded as any other team on day 3. This is the year you want to take a shot at us in the title game.

I think we have more depth than most WAC teams. What this team lacks (from a year ago) is scoring punch off the bench. Buchanan, Bobbitt, McNair, and Williams add very little offensively. NMSU relies heavily on six players to do most of the scoring; still more than most WAC teams but far less than a season ago. Heck, last year, Queen had a breakout tournament coming off the bench because WAC coaches were so focused on stopping our starters. Unless Williams returns to his East Carolina shooting numbers, our main (only) weapon off the beach is Brown; that's it.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2020 06:03 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
03-03-2020 06:02 PM
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edinburger Offline
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Post: #12
RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
As a lot of you pointed out, this tournament seeding sucks, partly due to the COVID-19/travel-savings cancellations, but mainly due to 2 through 7 being so close.

Our "reward" for making it to #2 seed is to play CSUB, who stomped us by 20 points less than two weeks ago.

Ought to go to a pick system. #1 seed picks first round opponent, #2 seed picks from what's left, etc. It would add some value to the regular season rankings.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 11:39 AM by edinburger.)
03-08-2020 11:38 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
What a mouthful for the name of the tournament:


03-08-2020 12:54 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: WAC Tourney Seeding

03-08-2020 02:39 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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RE: WAC Tourney Seeding
(03-08-2020 02:39 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Its because UMKC is the 2nd best team in the conference. They just had an injury take them down to 2 big man for 5 games and then a 36-8 ft game at GCU and then a "forfeit" in Seattle.
03-08-2020 11:22 PM
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