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Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
Remember that when you transfer your credits may not all go with you. You may need to switch majors. When you run out of eligibility so does the scholarship money. I could see this turning into a pretty big mess.
03-02-2020 08:08 AM
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Zorch Online
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Post: #22
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 06:44 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Baker never really hurt: he was a big time recruit but was more worried about himself and getting out of here than his teammates at W&M and, after leaving, was pretty much a flop at UVA . Frankly, he wasn't that memorable.

I seriously doubt that this was your reaction the day that Baker's transfer was announced.

Regardless of the specifics about Baker himself, his transfer hurt W&M. We were a perpetual lower division member of a mid-tier league and we were scrambling like the dickens to improve our profile. So we finally land a nice recruit whom the league takes notice of -- and then he leaves. You can rest assured that our rivals mentioned him to every other recruit that we tried to land: "hey, you don't want to go to W&M; they suck and they couldn't even keep Calvin Baker ....".
03-02-2020 08:48 AM
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wml33t Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 08:48 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 06:44 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Baker never really hurt: he was a big time recruit but was more worried about himself and getting out of here than his teammates at W&M and, after leaving, was pretty much a flop at UVA . Frankly, he wasn't that memorable.

I seriously doubt that this was your reaction the day that Baker's transfer was announced.

Regardless of the specifics about Baker himself, his transfer hurt W&M. We were a perpetual lower division member of a mid-tier league and we were scrambling like the dickens to improve our profile. So we finally land a nice recruit whom the league takes notice of -- and then he leaves. You can rest assured that our rivals mentioned him to every other recruit that we tried to land: "hey, you don't want to go to W&M; they suck and they couldn't even keep Calvin Baker ....".

I'd also argue that a transfer's lack of success at a big program doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a blow for us. To your point on Calvin above. Or to Audige. There is NO doubt that him leaving was a loss to our program. He contributed heavily as a freshman, that wasn't going away magically. If he never contributes to Northwestern, that was a talent loss for the Tribe.
03-02-2020 09:40 AM
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Zorch Online
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Post: #24
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 09:40 AM)wml33t Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 08:48 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 06:44 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  Baker never really hurt: he was a big time recruit but was more worried about himself and getting out of here than his teammates at W&M and, after leaving, was pretty much a flop at UVA . Frankly, he wasn't that memorable.

I seriously doubt that this was your reaction the day that Baker's transfer was announced.

Regardless of the specifics about Baker himself, his transfer hurt W&M. We were a perpetual lower division member of a mid-tier league and we were scrambling like the dickens to improve our profile. So we finally land a nice recruit whom the league takes notice of -- and then he leaves. You can rest assured that our rivals mentioned him to every other recruit that we tried to land: "hey, you don't want to go to W&M; they suck and they couldn't even keep Calvin Baker ....".

I'd also argue that a transfer's lack of success at a big program doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a blow for us. To your point on Calvin above. Or to Audige. There is NO doubt that him leaving was a loss to our program. He contributed heavily as a freshman, that wasn't going away magically. If he never contributes to Northwestern, that was a talent loss for the Tribe.

Now that the season is almost over, I have been thinking about the impact of last year's four transfers (five if you count Brown).

Losing Milon cost us three-point accuracy --- but we have Ayesa now. A wash on both offense and defense.

Losing Owens has been mitigated by the addition of the two grad students and by the freshmen who have contributed.

Losing Pierce was a definite talent loss --- but might have been a positive in chemistry. If he had been here then there might have been an identity crisis over whose team it was. With him gone, there is no doubt that it is Nathan's team.

Losing Brown -- hard to gauge the impact. I'm sure that he is a good player who would have found some minutes in the Tribe rotation. Probably would have used all the minutes that Hermanovskis gets, at least.

So that leaves Audige. There is no question that he would have started. Would have taken the Hamilton/Scott slot. This is the one that I am really sorry about. Oh well. 03-weeping 03-weeping
03-02-2020 10:00 AM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #25
Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
To me, there was a definite loss in guys that could create shots and the offense stagnated at times. I would have loved to see Audige with this squad. He would have thrived with his ability to play defense. There is no telling if guys like Scott, Loewe or Blair would have progressed as much with a different rotation.
All that said, we have a very good team filled with guys that like each other and are happy to be in Williamsburg.
03-02-2020 11:50 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
I also think - regardless of if this rule helps or hurts us - it's good for the student athletes themselves, so I would support it.
03-02-2020 11:53 AM
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Tribal Online
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Post: #27
Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
Brown's stats are almost identical to Audige, as a TFr, in every statistical category.

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03-02-2020 11:54 AM
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Naptown Tribe Offline
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Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
Let’s not kid ourselves ... Cam Brown would’ve been a big asset on this team. He provides what we don’t have: a talented, athletic wing.

That being said, I support who we are not who we aren’t.

Let’s Go Tribe!!


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(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 12:37 PM by Naptown Tribe.)
03-02-2020 12:05 PM
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mrjoolius Online
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RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 12:05 PM)Naptown Tribe Wrote:  Let’s no kid ourselves ... Cam Brown would’ve been a big asset on this team. He provides what we don’t have; a talented, athletic wing.

That being said, I support who we are not who we aren’t.

Let’s Go Tribe!!


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Absolutely. I think Cam is a very good talent. I'm pretty sure Dane would have loved to retain Brown as well as Audige. Having a coach that Cam was very close with in high school added to the St. Joe's staff was our death knell.
03-02-2020 12:11 PM
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WMTRIBE75 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 11:50 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  To me, there was a definite loss in guys that could create shots and the offense stagnated at times. I would have loved to see Audige with this squad. He would have thrived with his ability to play defense. There is no telling if guys like Scott, Loewe or Blair would have progressed as much with a different rotation.
All that said, we have a very good team filled with guys that like each other and are happy to be in Williamsburg.

Lots of time when you are building a house or looking to buy a new house, square footage becomes the big metric that you focus on when often times a house with less square footage just seems bigger because of the openness of the floor plan. Last year's team definitely had more square footage than this year's team, but I sure like the floor plan of this year's team a heck of a lot better.
03-02-2020 12:37 PM
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TribePride91 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
Thinking about last March 10th and what we lost is why I haven't followed the team this year for the first time since 1987. But, I do hope that the Tribe wins next week. It is not easy to win. Ironically, none of the top 3 seeds have ever won the CAA tournament. Towson has never even reached the final. So, there may be history made for someone on March 10th. It would be ultimate karma if the #2 W&M Tribe faces #4 Delaware on that day. Our last 2 matchups against Delaware on March 10th were dark days indeed. No reason to expect the Tribe will win 3 in a row next week. But, hopefully they can win Sunday and then see what happens. It seems like it is finally Hofstra's year.

I would be more encouraged about 2021 if we still had Audige, Owens, and Cam Brown to go with Luke Loewe, Thornton Scott, Quinn Blair, and Mekhel Harvey. Plus, either a newly recruited freshman or transfer. Has Harvey been injured? His minutes for the season are almost none which is a little surprising to me.
03-02-2020 12:47 PM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 12:47 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Has Harvey been injured? His minutes for the season are almost none which is a little surprising to me.

Harvey has not been injured. Harvey plays behind both Nate and Andy. The current offense is designed to utilize the unique talents of Nate and Andy which including playing the low post but also touching the ball a lot in the high post plus taking outside shots. These are not Harvey's talents as he is a true center so more of an inside player with great shot blocking and rebounding.
03-02-2020 01:15 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
It's quite impossible to gauge the success of this season under Dane and his roster to what might have been had Shaver not been let go. There's just too many variables and unknowns. My gut says we would have been roughly the same in regards to record had Shaver stayed, which is a credit to the job Dane has done pulling this season off when it was circling the drain less than a year ago. I'm happy to roll into DC with the team/coach we have and think we're peaking at the right time.

My biggest concern is year two of Huge's grand experiment. If we fail to make the tournament this year, the program could be staring back into the abyss.

Under Shaver, next's year's roster would have likely looked like this:
Brown
Owens
Audige
Mekhel
Blair
Loewe
Scott

That is a solid nucleus for continued success under a long-term coach.

Absent some quality transfers, next year's squad is almost certain to struggle. If it goes really south, then we risk losing much of the forward momentum gained under Shaver. Recruits pick P5 schools based on pedigree, forgive the occasional losing season, and give the benefit of the doubt to new coaches. UNC will have no trouble recruiting the next class. Mid-majors have to sell the coach and the culture to a larger degree. How many times has a mid-major risen to prominence only to fall back to earth after the respected, winning coach left. If the program is rightly or wrongly seen as taking a major step backward under Dane, we don't have a tradition of winning as a program or name brand recognition to fall back upon. We can't point to any banners in the rafters. The momentum of the past decade could be lost in the matter of a season or two. I really hope Dane can pull another rabbit out of his hat.

Okay, enough about next season, let's knock down the damn door!
03-02-2020 01:26 PM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 01:26 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  Under Shaver, next's year's roster would have likely looked like this:
Brown
Owens
Audige
Mekhel
Blair
Loewe
Scott

Audige was gone before the season ended last year as he had already posted during mid-February his highlight video. Agree Brown was a lost but it is an even trade of Owens for Ayesa in overall talent. Jury is out on Wight and Stone. Really the question is the two incoming freshmen and how much they contribute plus we got 2 scholarships to give. Feeling good about next year if we fill the open slots with a quality grad transfer or two!
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 01:40 PM by wmmii.)
03-02-2020 01:39 PM
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mrjoolius Online
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Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
I disagree about Dane necessarily having the same record as Shaver would have had. We might have been more explosive offensively, but I never saw a Shaver team here approach this year's team's defensive mindset. Winning shootouts is fun to watch, but it is difficult to maintain and can be fleeting. Defensive toughness is a constant mindset and it travels. Looking back on our best performances of the season all were keyed off defense
03-02-2020 01:57 PM
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Tribal Online
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Post: #36
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 01:39 PM)wmmii Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 01:26 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  Under Shaver, next's year's roster would have likely looked like this:
Brown
Owens
Audige
Mekhel
Blair
Loewe
Scott

Audige was gone before the season ended last year as he had already posted during mid-February his highlight video. Agree Brown was a lost but it is an even trade of Owens for Ayesa in overall talent. Jury is out on Wight and Stone. Really the question is the two incoming freshmen and how much they contribute plus we got 2 scholarships to give. Feeling good about next year if we fill the open slots with a quality grad transfer or two!

Not true. Mathis, Everson and Wright recently posted highlight videos...all three are at Spring Camp. This storyline of a pending mass exodus is a huge lie. Pierce had applied for and accepted to our MBA program. His mother posted on Twitter that she wished he had stayed at W&M...he wanted out after Tony was fired. Same with Chase...same with LJ.

Move on.

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03-02-2020 02:22 PM
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TribeTribe Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 02:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 01:39 PM)wmmii Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 01:26 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  Under Shaver, next's year's roster would have likely looked like this:
Brown
Owens
Audige
Mekhel
Blair
Loewe
Scott

Audige was gone before the season ended last year as he had already posted during mid-February his highlight video. Agree Brown was a lost but it is an even trade of Owens for Ayesa in overall talent. Jury is out on Wight and Stone. Really the question is the two incoming freshmen and how much they contribute plus we got 2 scholarships to give. Feeling good about next year if we fill the open slots with a quality grad transfer or two!

Not true. Mathis, Everson and Wright recently posted highlight videos...all three are at Spring Camp. This storyline of a pending mass exodus is a huge lie. Pierce had applied for and accepted to our MBA program. His mother posted on Twitter that she wished he had stayed at W&M...he wanted out after Tony was fired. Same with Chase...same with LJ.

Move on.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! This storyline keeps being pushed because it’s paints “someone” in a better light but it’s just NOT TRUE!
03-02-2020 02:31 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
(03-02-2020 01:57 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I disagree about Dane necessarily having the same record as Shaver would have had. We might have been more explosive offensively, but I never saw a Shaver team here approach this year's team's defensive mindset. Winning shootouts is fun to watch, but it is difficult to maintain and can be fleeting. Defensive toughness is a constant mindset and it travels. Looking back on our best performances of the season all were keyed off defense

I can't get on the "this was Tony's magical year" bandwagon. In his sixteen years at W&M, no Shaver team ever won 21 games in the regular season. Only one squad ever won 20. Dane took a squad everyone on this board left for dead and led them to more regular season wins than Shaver ever did. Let's celebrate that.
03-02-2020 02:38 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
I think Fischer did a great job (actually I think it was Kemp) getting Barnes. He's the key to this team as compared with what Shaver would have had. You can see how we don't play that well when he's out. None of Shaver's players were true #1 point guards, but I still think Owens would have been great this year.

Also, Ayesa isn't close to an even trade for Owens or Milon. Maybe as he improves he can be Burchfield 2.0. He's a spot up sharp shooter. I'm going to provide a statistic that will never be broken in the history of Tribe basketball. Ayesa played in 29 games this season and played 436 minutes (15 per game). HE SHOT ZERO FREE THROWS THIS YEAR.....ZERO.

Hamilton would never even play with the old Shaver bunch, and he starts for us. The reality is that we have two dominant big men who would drive success pretty much anywhere with three complementary players on the court.
03-02-2020 02:48 PM
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Prestige Offline
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RE: Possible New Transfer Rules for Next Year
This team has a very legitimate chance to finally break through this year. But that doesn't mean Tony Shaver would not have had the same success with this team.
The CAA Tournament is wide open this year, and that is because there is no dominant team like there's been in the past, and historically the conference is way down.
Hofstra is the highest ranked team on KenPom at 120. Tony Shaver had three teams that finished higher ranked (#107 in 2009-10, #116 in 2014-15, and #87 in 2015-16). We did not have more regular season wins in either of those years, but it was a much more difficult conference then.
This year's strength of schedule (221 according to KenPom) is the easiest William & Mary has had since the 2012-13 season (236 SOS). In fact, the only other season that Tony Shaver had a weaker schedule than this season was the 2004-05 season (229 SOS).
21 regular season wins is certainly impressive, and I am not taking anything away from Dane Fischer. Yes, it is the most wins in a season since 1950, but that does not mean this is the best team since then, and it does not mean that Tony Shaver was not capable of matching this success under this year's conditions.
03-02-2020 03:28 PM
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