(03-09-2020 04:34 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Reading through the posts here:

1. The Thomas twins weren't from Detroit they were from Lansing.
2. Neither football women's basketball etc have recruited SE Michigan consistently well. Singling out Murphy for that failure is unfair. Ssh but CC especially early had a lot of junior college recruits.

In all the complaining here this current team could have won 20 games this season. How many of us thought this team had that potential at the beginning of the season? We were all shocked when we saw them actually have a winning non-conference schedule forget Concordia and look at the solid D1 wins that were losses last season. Then we were shocked again when they went 0-7 and then shocked again when they came back in February. Just like football with CC too many close losses and wins.

Toure leave a big hole but we have the core coming back next season. Most of the guys on this team had never played one game of D1 basketball prior to this season and Murphy's zone defense isn't the easiest to master.

Improve the point guard position to distribute the ball and avoid turnovers, get some help with rebounding and shot blocking and yes find a consistent outside shooter and we may improve next season.

Not to be nitpicky but I said within a 50 mile radius, not Detroit. Lots of talent within that range. Expand it out to Chicago, Cleveland, and Indy and there's no reason to board a flight just for recruiting.

You're right in that this year's team exceeded the low expectations. Hell, I predicted 3 wins (I dont count non-D1 games). But therein lies the problem. Murphy had a complete rebuild year in his 9th year! That's not what stable programs do.

I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

Dear EagleSam,
I agree with you. Do the big programs care about where their recruits come from? The simple answer is no. So, why should Eastern worry about whether a recruit comes from Detroit or Timbuctu?

(03-09-2020 04:45 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 04:34 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Reading through the posts here:

1. The Thomas twins weren't from Detroit they were from Lansing.
2. Neither football women's basketball etc have recruited SE Michigan consistently well. Singling out Murphy for that failure is unfair. Ssh but CC especially early had a lot of junior college recruits.

In all the complaining here this current team could have won 20 games this season. How many of us thought this team had that potential at the beginning of the season? We were all shocked when we saw them actually have a winning non-conference schedule forget Concordia and look at the solid D1 wins that were losses last season. Then we were shocked again when they went 0-7 and then shocked again when they came back in February. Just like football with CC too many close losses and wins.

Toure leave a big hole but we have the core coming back next season. Most of the guys on this team had never played one game of D1 basketball prior to this season and Murphy's zone defense isn't the easiest to master.

Improve the point guard position to distribute the ball and avoid turnovers, get some help with rebounding and shot blocking and yes find a consistent outside shooter and we may improve next season.

Yes, '79. Things aren't as simple or as reported in Internet urban legends.

1). The key to the '91 team was Marcus Kennedy. He followed Gary Waters to EMU from a GLIAC school and was what the MAC MVP?

2). I don't want to down play the contributions of Dial, Head, etc. but Boykins was the recruiting coup of all time. A 5' 5" whose weight most women would kill for (one could say that Boykins probably looked more like a jockey than a D-I MBB player when he came to EMU).

Without Boykins the team would have been good, but not great.

3). Even Head was a gift. Iowa pulled their scholarship and he fell to us.

4). The recruiting coup of the day was Theron Wilson, a top 5 prospect in MI his senior year along with Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, Veshon Leonard (Minnesota), etc.

I like to tease Sunshine Steve for ... well... having so much sunshine it even comes out of his behind. But truth is, he can be right about a lot of things and especially in this post. However, I would argue that Dial was the BIGGEST coup for this team. He redshirted his freshman year as a WALK-ON. He not only made the team the next year but was an immediate starter and eventual NBA draft pick. The last in EMU history. How on earth did that guy not get a scholarship somewhere out of high school?????

In any case, that team was indeed loaded (we have yet made no mention of Brian Tolbert- oh how I loved when the crowd started chanting “TOL—BERT, TOL—BERT, ...”). One might even argue sacrilege that Ben Braun underachieved with that team. Probably should have been another sweet 16 team, probably should have beat that Boise St team in the late season OOC game to maintain their top 25 ranking longer, probably should have done better than a first round exit in the NIT the year prior when they had Kareem Carpenter on top of all those guys. I am saying this tongue in cheek as Ben Braun’s success at EMU meant a great deal to me and my beloved alma mater.

There are coaches and fans across the MAC and across the nation who all want the same thing as we do, and majority are in the same boat of disappointment as we are with Murphy. Some if not many are way worse as their team was not competitive enough to put up even a few wins let alone the 12 solid D1 wins along with a slew of competitive losses that could have gone either way.

EMU’s season likely ends today. Murphy will get one last season to improve things next year, and likely won’t. I agree Murphy’s contract is structured very poorly, and the previous extension was handled very inappropriately. But I also think a “ten year” tenure with the program is actually very appropriate given his accomplishments- every season there is some level of competitive however mediocre, some solid mid-major wins, a couple big ten wins, bringing in some really talented players some of which even graduate with science degrees for god’s sake, etc.

Have we confirmed his contract isnt up this month? all i could find was a detnews article running him through march 2020.

(03-09-2020 10:15 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 04:45 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 04:34 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Reading through the posts here:

1. The Thomas twins weren't from Detroit they were from Lansing.
2. Neither football women's basketball etc have recruited SE Michigan consistently well. Singling out Murphy for that failure is unfair. Ssh but CC especially early had a lot of junior college recruits.

In all the complaining here this current team could have won 20 games this season. How many of us thought this team had that potential at the beginning of the season? We were all shocked when we saw them actually have a winning non-conference schedule forget Concordia and look at the solid D1 wins that were losses last season. Then we were shocked again when they went 0-7 and then shocked again when they came back in February. Just like football with CC too many close losses and wins.

Toure leave a big hole but we have the core coming back next season. Most of the guys on this team had never played one game of D1 basketball prior to this season and Murphy's zone defense isn't the easiest to master.

Improve the point guard position to distribute the ball and avoid turnovers, get some help with rebounding and shot blocking and yes find a consistent outside shooter and we may improve next season.

Yes, '79. Things aren't as simple or as reported in Internet urban legends.

1). The key to the '91 team was Marcus Kennedy. He followed Gary Waters to EMU from a GLIAC school and was what the MAC MVP?

2). I don't want to down play the contributions of Dial, Head, etc. but Boykins was the recruiting coup of all time. A 5' 5" whose weight most women would kill for (one could say that Boykins probably looked more like a jockey than a D-I MBB player when he came to EMU).

Without Boykins the team would have been good, but not great.

3). Even Head was a gift. Iowa pulled their scholarship and he fell to us.

4). The recruiting coup of the day was Theron Wilson, a top 5 prospect in MI his senior year along with Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, Veshon Leonard (Minnesota), etc.

I like to tease Sunshine Steve for ... well... having so much sunshine it even comes out of his behind. But truth is, he can be right about a lot of things and especially in this post. However, I would argue that Dial was the BIGGEST coup for this team. He redshirted his freshman year as a WALK-ON. He not only made the team the next year but was an immediate starter and eventual NBA draft pick. The last in EMU history. How on earth did that guy not get a scholarship somewhere out of high school?????

In any case, that team was indeed loaded (we have yet made no mention of Brian Tolbert- oh how I loved when the crowd started chanting “TOL—BERT, TOL—BERT, ...”). One might even argue sacrilege that Ben Braun underachieved with that team. Probably should have been another sweet 16 team, probably should have beat that Boise St team in the late season OOC game to maintain their top 25 ranking longer, probably should have done better than a first round exit in the NIT the year prior when they had Kareem Carpenter on top of all those guys. I am saying this tongue in cheek as Ben Braun’s success at EMU meant a great deal to me and my beloved alma mater.

There are coaches and fans across the MAC and across the nation who all want the same thing as we do, and majority are in the same boat of disappointment as we are with Murphy. Some if not many are way worse as their team was not competitive enough to put up even a few wins let alone the 12 solid D1 wins along with a slew of competitive losses that could have gone either way.

EMU’s season likely ends today. Murphy will get one last season to improve things next year, and likely won’t. I agree Murphy’s contract is structured very poorly, and the previous extension was handled very inappropriately. But I also think a “ten year” tenure with the program is actually very appropriate given his accomplishments- every season there is some level of competitive however mediocre, some solid mid-major wins, a couple big ten wins, bringing in some really talented players some of which even graduate with science degrees for god’s sake, etc.

The question you raise, and I don't know the answer, was Dial.

I remember talking with Gary Waters about him but never asked for why he was a walk-on.

Dial was a All-Detroit type player at Cass Tech. Don't know why he wasn't on scholarship his first year.

Have to take a look at the stats, but I think Dial improved greatly year-over-year during his time at EMU.

Once again, many teams missed on him.

I remember watching Tolbert's dePorres team play Southgate Aquinas. We were recruiting a big man, who had hands of stone; his teammate. MSU had Jon Garavaglia from Aquinas.

Tolbert was a gem. The big man we recruited was a flop at Cle. State. That's the way it goes...

(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

According to Wikipedia, Bowen Fieldhouse held 5400 people, so I was off a little bit, but it was standing room only literally! MAC basketball was much different back then, we saw NBA talent! Majerle, Thomas, Kennedy, Trent, etc......I'm sure everyone who can name a few more! HolyBovine, do you remember when Eddie Bird, and Indiana St came to town, and Ball St? Literally people were scalping tickets! It won't ever happen again!

(03-09-2020 01:56 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  According to Wikipedia, Bowen Fieldhouse held 5400 people, so I was off a little bit, but it was standing room only literally! MAC basketball was much different back then, we saw NBA talent! Majerle, Thomas, Kennedy, Trent, etc......I'm sure everyone who can name a few more! HolyBovine, do you remember when Eddie Bird, and Indiana St came to town, and Ball St? Literally people were scalping tickets! It won't ever happen again!

I'll check what EMU listed Bown as BUT that is NOT official. I believe I had heard (after the Wisconsin game) that the seating capacity was really less than listed. Just never corrected. I think the actual capacity was slightly under 5K.

Remember, some arena are full of chair back seating which can be counted or calculated (by counting number of seats in a row for each section and x by number of rows).

At Bowen with bench seating capacity is much more of an estimate than a hard count. Maybe the estimate was for a section full of 'Twiggies." (Baby boomer may remember Twiggy).

(03-09-2020 01:39 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

(03-09-2020 01:56 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  According to Wikipedia, Bowen Fieldhouse held 5400 people, so I was off a little bit, but it was standing room only literally! MAC basketball was much different back then, we saw NBA talent! Majerle, Thomas, Kennedy, Trent, etc......I'm sure everyone who can name a few more! HolyBovine, do you remember when Eddie Bird, and Indiana St came to town, and Ball St? Literally people were scalping tickets! It won't ever happen again!

At the door the sign said limit 4500 persons

(03-09-2020 02:34 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:39 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

(03-09-2020 05:45 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 02:34 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:39 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

(03-09-2020 02:39 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:56 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  According to Wikipedia, Bowen Fieldhouse held 5400 people, so I was off a little bit, but it was standing room only literally! MAC basketball was much different back then, we saw NBA talent! Majerle, Thomas, Kennedy, Trent, etc......I'm sure everyone who can name a few more! HolyBovine, do you remember when Eddie Bird, and Indiana St came to town, and Ball St? Literally people were scalping tickets! It won't ever happen again!

At the door the sign said limit 4500 persons

No it didn't. You just made that up.

(03-09-2020 07:00 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 02:39 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:56 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  According to Wikipedia, Bowen Fieldhouse held 5400 people, so I was off a little bit, but it was standing room only literally! MAC basketball was much different back then, we saw NBA talent! Majerle, Thomas, Kennedy, Trent, etc......I'm sure everyone who can name a few more! HolyBovine, do you remember when Eddie Bird, and Indiana St came to town, and Ball St? Literally people were scalping tickets! It won't ever happen again!

At the door the sign said limit 4500 persons

No it didn't. You just made that up.

I'm not sure who is the expert on this. Probably Jim Streeter, but since he doesn't post here...

I still believe the 5,400 number was inflated.

I was at the Wisconsin game which seemed packed except for say less than 100 seats for WI fans and the published attendance was around 4,500, if I remember correctly.

I definitely remember it wasn't over 5,000. I probably have the official scorer's sheet somewhere which I got after the game.

(03-09-2020 05:57 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:45 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 02:34 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:39 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 08:29 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I still don’t understand why people care about where our players are from. I want anyone who can play. If we had a team comprised entirely of international kids and we won the MAC, I would be just as happy as if they were all from Detroit. Do you think the locals in Spokane care that Gonzaga has as many kids from France as they do from Washington? No, they care about winning. And if they don’t, then I’ll gladly trade them for their program.

I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

I don’t think Groce has developed at all as a player. His O-rating is 92.7, which makes him well below average offensively. His effective field goal percentage is 43.8, which is less than Toure, Montero, Binelli, and Spottsville. He’s useless from 3 (22.4%). He’s just a guy that takes a lot of shots on a bad team.

(03-09-2020 11:25 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:57 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:45 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 02:34 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 01:39 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I don’t care where they come from either necessarily. But it’s accurate to point out that we do not currently recruit Michigan, and there is a lot of talent in SE Michigan that we miss out on. And Murphy struggles to recruit non-transfers and non-JUCOs. He’s never connected with Michigan high school coaches, which is interesting considering where he came from. These are all valid concerns.

I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

I don’t think Groce has developed at all as a player. His O-rating is 92.7, which makes him well below average offensively. His effective field goal percentage is 43.8, which is less than Toure, Montero, Binelli, and Spottsville. He’s useless from 3 (22.4%). He’s just a guy that takes a lot of shots on a bad team.

It's hard to judge the offensive performance of anyone on a team that lacks an offensive system. That said, Ty is not a shooter but can be very good as a slasher and getting points in the paint.

(03-10-2020 05:35 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 11:25 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:57 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:45 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 02:34 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  I guess we will agree to disagree. It’s only a concern to people because we aren’t winning. Recruiting locally is not positively or negatively correlated with success. If anything, I think it’s a strength of Murphy’s to find talent wherever. He just can’t coach it, unless it pertains to his 2-3 zone, and that’s why it’s time for him to go.

We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

I don’t think Groce has developed at all as a player. His O-rating is 92.7, which makes him well below average offensively. His effective field goal percentage is 43.8, which is less than Toure, Montero, Binelli, and Spottsville. He’s useless from 3 (22.4%). He’s just a guy that takes a lot of shots on a bad team.

It's hard to judge the offensive performance of anyone on a team that lacks an offensive system. That said, Ty is not a shooter but can be very good as a slasher and getting points in the paint.

I don’t disagree that he has a few strengths. But statistically, we would have been better off giving someone else his usage level.

(03-10-2020 09:16 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 05:35 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 11:25 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:57 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:45 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  We all ideally would prefer to have 4 year college players from SE Michigan. Two problems with that.

One, Michigan HS athletics just are not what they used to be. Emoni Bates led his team to the state championship in his FRESHMAN year! While I am sure he is a transcendent talent, another such player Ervin Johnson, did so only in his senior year due to superior competition. U-M football suffers from this diminished local pool of recruits as well.

Two, Murph simply does not develop players or coach offense. Shamar Dillard and Chris James have shown a whole lot of potential as incoming freshmen. Honestly if they choose to stay at EMU, they will probably leave like Ty Groce as tenacious ball deflecting defenders that do not shoot well, pass or move without the ball on offense. Rob is who he is, recruiting transfers with established offensive skills (Mangum, Toney, Montero, Morgan, Jackson, Minnie) is our best option.

Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

I don’t think Groce has developed at all as a player. His O-rating is 92.7, which makes him well below average offensively. His effective field goal percentage is 43.8, which is less than Toure, Montero, Binelli, and Spottsville. He’s useless from 3 (22.4%). He’s just a guy that takes a lot of shots on a bad team.

It's hard to judge the offensive performance of anyone on a team that lacks an offensive system. That said, Ty is not a shooter but can be very good as a slasher and getting points in the paint.

I don’t disagree that he has a few strengths. But statistically, we would have been better off giving someone else his usage level.

Shooting is coachable to an extent. Bielien had a computer program at U-M to trace and analyze the arc, reverse rotation and such. Based on the last nine years, I'm confident that Murphy does not share Bielien's zest for shooting performance. Actually from a form standpoint, however, the only player with an ugly shot is "line drive Spottsville", we just don't emphasize shooting and thus Ty and the team are largely ineffective from outside.

I can credit Murphy for getting both Toure and Groce to come here to play. Toure was the most physically strong center in the MAC and his vertical leap was amazing. Groce had more foot speed than any defender he faced this year, thus his success at slashing. He also has serious hops, I saw him slam dunk a missed shot this year where his elbow was well above the rim. These are non-coachable assets. We wasted the Toure talents this year, I suspect we will likewise do so with Groce next year again as well. Honestly if I am Ty and another impressive natural talent like Dillard, I would head for the transfer portal.

(03-10-2020 05:46 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 09:16 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-10-2020 05:35 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 11:25 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-09-2020 05:57 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Actually both Groce and Toure are examples of players whom the staff have developed.

Groce had problems which made his success as a D-I athlete questionable. Groce, his mother, the staff, etc. did a very nice job getting him to where he is today.

Toure' had injury issues at Grand Canyon and sat out I believe two seasons. He developed very nicely at EMU.

I don’t think Groce has developed at all as a player. His O-rating is 92.7, which makes him well below average offensively. His effective field goal percentage is 43.8, which is less than Toure, Montero, Binelli, and Spottsville. He’s useless from 3 (22.4%). He’s just a guy that takes a lot of shots on a bad team.

It's hard to judge the offensive performance of anyone on a team that lacks an offensive system. That said, Ty is not a shooter but can be very good as a slasher and getting points in the paint.

I don’t disagree that he has a few strengths. But statistically, we would have been better off giving someone else his usage level.

Shooting is coachable to an extent. Bielien had a computer program at U-M to trace and analyze the arc, reverse rotation and such. Based on the last nine years, I'm confident that Murphy does not share Bielien's zest for shooting performance. Actually from a form standpoint, however, the only player with an ugly shot is "line drive Spottsville", we just don't emphasize shooting and thus Ty and the team are largely ineffective from outside.

I can credit Murphy for getting both Toure and Groce to come here to play. Toure was the most physically strong center in the MAC and his vertical leap was amazing. Groce had more foot speed than any defender he faced this year, thus his success at slashing. He also has serious hops, I saw him slam dunk a missed shot this year where his elbow was well above the rim. These are non-coachable assets. We wasted the Toure talents this year, I suspect we will likewise do so with Groce next year again as well. Honestly if I am Ty and another impressive natural talent like Dillard, I would head for the transfer portal.

Well said Jerry! EMU may not get another center as gifted as Toure. He was better than Theron Wilson and our best center since Grant Long. Grant was our best EMU player the past 35 years including Boykins.