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I am.. uncomfortable with the sudden and widespread taking of people's rights.

That doesn't mean I know or think it's not the way to handle this.

What I wish most is that people could pay attention and follow guidelines without being forced to.

This site

Is very interesting.

It is a model developed by folks at Harvard, in conjunction with others.

It looks a hospital bed capacity in different geographic regions, given different assumed COVID 19 infection rates, timing of infection, etc.

You can enter your location to get an idea.

Quote:“Our model gives hospital leaders and policy makers a clear sense of when they will hit capacity and strategic information on how to prepare for rising numbers of patients,” Jha said. “If people wonder 'Why am I social distancing?' and 'Why am I isolating myself?' this data makes that real. People should look at this data and make sure their community has a plan.”

FWIW

(03-16-2020 07:57 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  I think we can have a great time over a toddy or two. Can't speak to the age thing but I am retired .

I really don't care for a different opinion that is colored by someone's ideology. I won't link to a source, but if you're truly interested in unbiased reporting or as close to that ideal as you can get currently check out c-span, the christian science monitor and for news about Michigan look at Bridge Magazine. Washingtonian and Washington Daily Wire are liberal rags, certainly not NYT nor WP.

So who do you consider 'neutral' sources? After all, our sources either color our opinions or allow us to form our own.

Yeah, I'm retired too, but still working in a different field partly to avoid boredom, partly for some 'mad money' but to stay active and to keep interacting with people. Hard to do that now, at least face to face. Can't work from home in my current job, but that is where I am now, due to the virus.

Not sure that there really are any neutral or unbiased sources of news any more. Perhaps there never was but with the polarization of this country, we are far more able to spot bias. Some interesting ones there in your list that I may just check out.

According to Bloomberg News, Italy's ISS Italy's National Health Institute, reported Tuesday, they are seeing a drop in the number of coronavirus cases.
They are contemplating open things back up in April
Their average age for a coronavirus death is 79.5 years. Since they are only testing those with appearent symptoms, they are estimating that the number of cases are closer to 100,000. That would bring the mortality rate to about 2%, which is the worldwide average.[/u]

(03-19-2020 11:18 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  According to Bloomberg News, Italy's ISS Italy's National Health Institute, reported Tuesday, they are seeing a drop in the number of coronavirus cases.
They are contemplating open things back up in April
Their average age for a coronavirus death is 79.5 years. Since they are only testing those with appearent symptoms, they are estimating that the number of cases are closer to 100,000. That would bring the mortality rate to about 2%, which is the worldwide average.[/u]

That's good news if that's true (and lord knows we can all use some encouraging news). Italy is one of the hardest places hit, I'm a bit skeptical of the prospect them returning to near normalcy in April. But if it does, it's a good sign for all of us.

(03-19-2020 11:57 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 11:18 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  According to Bloomberg News, Italy's ISS Italy's National Health Institute, reported Tuesday, they are seeing a drop in the number of coronavirus cases.
They are contemplating open things back up in April
Their average age for a coronavirus death is 79.5 years. Since they are only testing those with appearent symptoms, they are estimating that the number of cases are closer to 100,000. That would bring the mortality rate to about 2%, which is the worldwide average.[/u]

That's good news if that's true (and lord knows we can all use some encouraging news). Italy is one of the hardest places hit, I'm a bit skeptical of the prospect them returning to near normalcy in April. But if it does, it's a good sign for all of us.

South Korea is encouraging as well. Even if we will be clear for now, just be prepared for a second wave, perhaps next fall/winter. This may be endemic, until it mutates into a gentler strain or we develop an effective vaccine.

(03-19-2020 02:21 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 11:57 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 11:18 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  According to Bloomberg News, Italy's ISS Italy's National Health Institute, reported Tuesday, they are seeing a drop in the number of coronavirus cases.
They are contemplating open things back up in April
Their average age for a coronavirus death is 79.5 years. Since they are only testing those with appearent symptoms, they are estimating that the number of cases are closer to 100,000. That would bring the mortality rate to about 2%, which is the worldwide average.[/u]

That's good news if that's true (and lord knows we can all use some encouraging news). Italy is one of the hardest places hit, I'm a bit skeptical of the prospect them returning to near normalcy in April. But if it does, it's a good sign for all of us.

South Korea is encouraging as well. Even if we will be clear for now, just be prepared for a second wave, perhaps next fall/winter. This may be endemic, until it mutates into a gentler strain or we develop an effective vaccine.

The ability to test will be a huge step up

A video from inside a hospital in Italy has been posted online as well as a video from a mass funeral. End of the world type vibes. Two things I hope I never have to experience.

As with any media release, always be a bit skeptical of its accuracy.

But if you are begging for any piece of good news...

https://thehill.com/changing-america/wel...lower-than

I still think locking down is a good idea. I'd rather tighten the screws a bit and have my loved ones come out of this in one piece, as opposed to under-react and suffer the consequences.

The fact that the Italians cherish their elderly family members, usually living with them, made this disease much worse for them. I guess 1 silver lining is that Americans for the most part treat the elderly much worse so hopefully it won't be so hard on them here.

(03-19-2020 07:56 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 02:21 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 11:57 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(03-19-2020 11:18 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  According to Bloomberg News, Italy's ISS Italy's National Health Institute, reported Tuesday, they are seeing a drop in the number of coronavirus cases.
They are contemplating open things back up in April
Their average age for a coronavirus death is 79.5 years. Since they are only testing those with appearent symptoms, they are estimating that the number of cases are closer to 100,000. That would bring the mortality rate to about 2%, which is the worldwide average.[/u]

That's good news if that's true (and lord knows we can all use some encouraging news). Italy is one of the hardest places hit, I'm a bit skeptical of the prospect them returning to near normalcy in April. But if it does, it's a good sign for all of us.

South Korea is encouraging as well. Even if we will be clear for now, just be prepared for a second wave, perhaps next fall/winter. This may be endemic, until it mutates into a gentler strain or we develop an effective vaccine.

The ability to test will be a huge step up

National Guard and Memorial West Hospital started
their drive thru testing in West Broward at 9am yesterday. According to the S FL NPR 91.3 by lunchtime they had tested 500.

Anecdotal, but worth a read

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity.

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy ****, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy ****, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

(03-21-2020 09:10 AM)ess Wrote:  Anecdotal, but worth a read

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity.

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy ****, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy ****, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

Thank you for sharing. I don't think most of us realize just how serious COVID-19 is. That graphically paints a picture ...

(03-21-2020 09:10 AM)ess Wrote:  Anecdotal, but worth a read

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity.

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy ****, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy ****, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

I wouldn’t put too much stock into this. The Doctor at Beaumont just got his had slapped and the hospital had to set the record straight after he tweeted “the ICU is full of young people on ventilators”which the hospital debunked.

(03-21-2020 05:34 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 09:10 AM)ess Wrote:  Anecdotal, but worth a read

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity.

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy ****, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy ****, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

I wouldn’t put too much stock into this. The Doctor at Beaumont just got his had slapped and the hospital had to set the record straight after he tweeted “the ICU is full of young people on ventilators”which the hospital debunked.

And yet just tonight there is a report on the news that in Italy more and more of the patients are younger. Have a source for your Beaumont scenario? I did not see that in my news feed.

(03-21-2020 05:43 PM)Aimless1 Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 05:34 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(03-21-2020 09:10 AM)ess Wrote:  Anecdotal, but worth a read

Since last week, he’s been running ventilators for the sickest COVID-19 patients. Many are relatively young, in their 40s and 50s, and have minimal, if any, preexisting conditions in their charts. He is overwhelmed, stunned by the manifestation of the infection, both its speed and intensity.

“It first struck me how different it was when I saw my first coronavirus patient go bad. I was like, Holy ****, this is not the flu. Watching this relatively young guy, gasping for air, pink frothy secretions coming out of his tube and out of his mouth. The ventilator should have been doing the work of breathing but he was still gasping for air, moving his mouth, moving his body, struggling. We had to restrain him. With all the coronavirus patients, we’ve had to restrain them. They really hyperventilate, really struggle to breathe. When you’re in that mindstate of struggling to breathe and delirious with fever, you don’t know when someone is trying to help you, so you’ll try to rip the breathing tube out because you feel it is choking you, but you are drowning.

“Before this, we were all joking. It’s grim humor. If you are exposed to the virus and test positive and go on quarantine, you get paid. We were all joking: I want to get the coronavirus because then I get a paid vacation from work. And once I saw these patients with it, I was like, Holy ****, I do not want to catch this and I don’t want anyone I know to catch this.

I wouldn’t put too much stock into this. The Doctor at Beaumont just got his had slapped and the hospital had to set the record straight after he tweeted “the ICU is full of young people on ventilators”which the hospital debunked.

And yet just tonight there is a report on the news that in Italy more and more of the patients are younger. Have a source for your Beaumont scenario? I did not see that in my news feed.

PBS world news yesterday stated average age of dead in Italy was 81..

Majority of men also smoke in Italy.

Here’s a link


https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loca...-responds/

Here’s an interesting read on the numbers and how they are inducing hysteria unnecessarily.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evi...767def5894

There is no doubt that younger people can and do get severe cases from this virus. Most of them have pre-existing conditions, though again, not all.

However.

You could write these stories every year about the flu. Every year, younger seemingly healthy people can and do develop severe flu cases and yes, even die. It is rare, and it is also rare with COVID.

I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this. It is in fact a much more potentially serious disease than the flu, and the fact that it's novel makes it a whole other ball of wax.

However, these anecdotes of younger people getting the disease severely should not throw us out of perspective. The vast, vast majority of cases for younger people are mild. Those are just the facts.

Media sensationalism doesn't help what is already a bad situation. Staying at home is the right thing to do. The media baiting already on-edge and literally captive people into panic by reporting every case of a young person having to be hospitalized, is not the right thing to do.

My point before is not that COVID = flu. It is that the media could use scare tactics with the flu in the same way they are with COVID, if they chose to.

Thanks for the link GRBronco. I completely missed that in the news.

flushtheheard, one issue I have with the article you linked is it doesn't reference the lack of testing in the US. Our numbers are hopelessly flawed at this point.

Part of the issue, I think, is what is younger? what is older? Most of us consider 'older' as retirement age and older. Most of us consider younger as 30 and younger. Since no one is defining terms including Beaumont Hospital, it is left to us to interpret the data.

Oh I think this has been taking its toll here in the US for much longer and people just thought it was the flu or bad cold that had turned into bronchitis or pneumonia...