(04-02-2020 11:59 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 10:49 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You and the other conservatives should stop assuming that just because others don't agree with you or have another opinion does not mean they are not considering the same issues or not listening to you.

Lad, I am pleased to see how you have matured. Early in your tenure here on the Quad, you were adamant that those disagreeing with you on a particular issue were necessarily not considering the same issues and not listening. You further said that they might be deficient in critical thinking or in empathy.

Being a recipient, lad still hasnt changed wholly from the 'they might be deficient in critical thinking' thingy.

And, one only has to go back a few posts to the 'fact' from lad that conservatives and libertarians lack empathy when thinking about social good.

Again, I want to point out a very humorous 'about face'. One particular poster here has continuously noted his amazing concerns about Trump being an authoritarian, and his being scared of that trait to some extent.

But, when Trump has been pressed to engage one of *the* most authoritarian acts that *can* be used, Trump noted that there are times and places to use the act, and has refrained in a great deal to use that amazing power.

But now, *the* most authoritarian argument that 'Trump really really really should have used the DPA with only a scintilla of thought or reason behind it' has been promulgated by --- that same poster.

When it is noted what an extraordinary act it is, and it requires far more information that us mere mortals have at our disposal here in this tiny, yet squawky, corner of self-indulgent talk with an inverse amount of real impact in the real world, the response from that poster is a combination of 'that is too much to keep me from criticizing' coupled with a mishmash of 'well.... maybe Trump should say more'.

All in defense of what, appears to me, to be wholly incomplete reasoning of why that hammer should be utilized.

It really makes me wonder whom is the true proto-authoritarian in this case, since the *best* reason I can ascertain from that poster's position is that 'the optics look good.' Apparently the fault in that poster's mind, at least on this subject, is that Trump isnt authoritarian *enough* now. Hate to say, this dumb*** redneck deplorable would be rather confused on this, that is if I didnt find the absolute high point of humor in this position compared to the previous statements of his position regarding Trump as a proto-authoritarian.

Highly selective undoubtedly, but still fairly amusing. Maybe it is 'nuanced' to use that well-overused word.

As for 'proto-authoritarianism', somebody once said to me that the best time to spot them is when a real crisis rears, and they pull out all the stops to engage the wheels and power of government to move their social and political agenda. Well, we have the governor of the largest state in the Union opining on that, as well as the Majority Whip also making such a statement. Coupled with the Speaker putting forth a bill that stalled the CARE act, also ostensibly loaded with that type of legislation.

Hmmm... I wonder who are the true 'proto-statsists / proto-authoritarists / proto-fascists' that are revealing their true inner selves in *this* crisis?

I think I speak for the literally dozens of unique viewers of this forum in saying I am deeply invested in learning who comes out on top in this epic struggle for the intellectual and moral high ground of the Kent Rowald Memorial Quad.

(04-02-2020 01:10 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I think I speak for the literally dozens of unique viewers of this forum in saying I am deeply invested in learning who comes out on top in this epic struggle for the intellectual and moral high ground of the Kent Rowald Memorial Quad.

It certainly won't be me: according to some, I'm a bigot, liar, coward, and terrible representative of Rice.

Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

(04-02-2020 01:16 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:10 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I think I speak for the literally dozens of unique viewers of this forum in saying I am deeply invested in learning who comes out on top in this epic struggle for the intellectual and moral high ground of the Kent Rowald Memorial Quad.

It certainly won't be me: according to some, I'm a bigot, liar, coward, and terrible representative of Rice.

I thought you were the "pompous" one, and I was the "wizened" one. Maybe I had it backward. Only thing I can be sure of is I am not the "lawyer" one.

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Do I have to be angry?

(04-02-2020 11:43 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 10:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  .

Right now, it's like that these states are being hit hardest because they are the earliest in their life cycle. But they also had some cities (like SF) that were quick to act and appear to be having success.

Real question. How did SF handle all their homeless?

Maybe Big will tell me tonight, after his graph is posted.

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

(04-02-2020 02:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

If you just want criticisms to be held until we get through the pandemic, I can do that.

(04-02-2020 02:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

I am staying in, partially to protect myself physically and partially because most of the places I would normally go don't want me there.

Of course, I have no job to do from home, so that part is easy. In a way, I wish I had more to do. Boredom is my biggest problem with staying home.

The economic impacts are so far the biggest impacts on me. As many of you know (and the rest should know), I live off my retirement investments and support my handicapped sister from them also. The stock market fall has wiped out for now about 1/3 of my investments, shortening the horizon for me going broke from 10 years to about 6 or so. Of course that is at the old levels of cost. My sister's home has already sent me a rent increase notice. I expect the nursing care (separate charge) to do the same too. I expect most business to raise rate when they can. But I am saving money on gasoline.

I had a real estate deal in place that would have guaranteed my sister enough cash to live on in the event of my death. (Did I mention she is younger than me? She will probably outlive me by 15 years.) That deal has fallen through. The land values are now about half what they were 2 months ago, when the deal was negotiated. I would not expect them to rebound to December values.

If this crisis results in a socialist dominated Democrat party taking control, things will just get worse.

(04-02-2020 10:49 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Yes, liberals are more likely to support the government acting in the benefit of the public good than conservatives and libertarians.

If that a fact?

Sounds like you think conservatives are more about selfish profit at the expense of the public good.

IOW, you are just parroting stereotypes.

Personally, I think a strong economy IS something that works for the public good. But liberals want to characterize it as corporate welfare and only benefiting the rich.

So, according to that, only the rich would be hurt by a downturn in business. Is that what we are seeing?

lad,

In all honesty if you could show that: a) PPE mfgers couldnt make numbers; b) PPE mfgers are/were stonewalling manufacturing; and c) Trump knew of a) and b) and sat on his ass re: the DPA, I have zero issue with a fully set out criticism.

The simple cutting and pasting of an obvious talking point that has serious infirmities in the factual record and in even what the DPA is or what its use represents, yes, I have a problem with.

And yes, the unfortunate thing is precisely what you pointed out -- in order to truly call that inaction as bad *requires* a metric ton of knowledge that *no one* at this board has.

For all I know, the factual record in those actions may actually be all of a), b) and c) above. The public record doesnt tend to show that.

But if you have been careful to note, I havent said that Trump's actions (or inactions as the case may be) were 'genius', let alone proper. I have also strenuously noted that those items surrounding your and Big's specific criticisms, frankly, needed to be ascertained at a level eons above my pay scale, or for that matter, anyone's pay scale at this forum.

If you feel the urge, criticize away. If founded, perhaps some of us might agree with you.

But at least on a proportion of the criticisms, a cursory note of the topic kind of reveals a rather specious shortcoming. The DPA issue for one, the shipment of a laughably small amount of PPE as another.

The problem occurs when those sort of 'big holes' appear, and are then fought tooth and fing nail, it tends to imprint the whole of the list presented as specious in nature.

And no, Trump is *not* a genius, I would think that almost everyone that joins or has joined this forum has more lightning in the cranium than that guy. Perhaps even the gif-guy.

And, Trump has an enormous amount of other shortcomings. No one here doubts that.

But the 'die at all costs' defense of the DPA issue, and the short trailer issue at least, on the other hand, tend to show that at least a portion of criticisms are specious, and treated as the value of their veracity in the manner of a Japanese soldier on Iwo Jima.

In the timeline that I see, Trump was late coming out of the blocks. I was worried about the trajectory of the Wuhan virus in China, but at a magical point those numbers leveled off. It turns out that the infections didnt level off, the Chinese simply fing lied. The 'oh ****' moment for me was the day that Iran *and* Italy reported their fires. And it appeared to me in that Trump started in his 'oh ****' reponse to the utter enormity of the Chinese lie about 5 days later on Feb 29th when he told the CDS, the NIH, *and* the FDA to 'stop fing being bureaucrats' (and in all honesty that still hasnt happened completely).

As for PPE, well fk me, Obama borrowed the truck and never refilled the gas tank. Trump in his tenure didnt do that either. But Obama had a crapload more time to do it, and considering that he drained it *because* of a pandemic, he *might* have learned its fing value to refill it in his 7 years at that wheel.

In DPA, if the PPE mfgs are kicking ass and taking names in doing that at the present, and from all public reports I see that is the atmosphere, I see no reason to invoke the hammer of the DPA. There, that is my opinion deck.

But the continued criticism of items that are seemingly very off base, just simply smacks of political shitiness.

If you have a valid criticism, and you have had some, I welcome them. But just dont cut and paste **** just to add to the pile. I may not agree with you very much, but you do have a pretty sharp mind. I would expect more from you than cut and paste, and am a little surprised at the dogged defense of what, when rationally analyzed, really doesnt hold a full cup of water.

(04-02-2020 02:40 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 02:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

The true 'deepness of Fountains' shows through again. Quite the counterpoint to a very good link the other day, wouldnt you say?

(04-02-2020 03:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  And no, Trump is *not* a genius, I would think that almost everyone that joins or has joined this forum has more lightning in the cranium than that guy. Perhaps even the gif-guy.

(04-02-2020 03:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The true 'deepness of Fountains' shows through again. Quite the counterpoint to a very good link the other day, wouldnt you say?

I contain multitudes.

(04-02-2020 03:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 02:40 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 02:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

The true 'deepness of Fountains' shows through again. Quite the counterpoint to a very good link the other day, wouldnt you say?

To his part, he is able to convey quite a few emotions/ideas without a single word of text.

Super interesting article by the NYTimes on changes in travel patterns across the US. Well, I skimmed the article and mainly looked at the pictures (maybe that's why I'm OK with Fountains' approach).

My new home in NC is rather hilarious - Wake/Durham/Orange/Chatham counties (the Triangle) are circled by a bunch of areas where travel patterns haven't changed significantly.

i do think the data makes some states look worse where populations are generally less dense, but even in states with high-density cities, there are still plenty of rural areas.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020...XpA-76zuN0

(04-02-2020 03:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 03:14 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 02:40 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 02:24 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-02-2020 01:39 PM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  Actually, we should all be celebrating each other. By staying in and angrily posting on this website all day, we're doing our part to flatten the curve.

Actually I am staying in, calling banks, calling lenders, calling landlords, and trying to do what I can to save what I can of my little corner of the economic country for the most part.

Im actually actively working most of the time to 'flatten the impact curve' on one front, mind you. Kind of indirectly on the other as most of us are all doing.

Some really seemingly have zero issue about continuing the political drumbeat that they dance to, it seems. It detracts from what we face to a decent amount. But, I have no issue of directly addressing what appears from any angle to be a quarter-digested and not very well thought out skeleton of a political talking point.

And Fountains, if you dont like it, dont come here and read. Kind of pretty simple solution there for ya, aint it?

The true 'deepness of Fountains' shows through again. Quite the counterpoint to a very good link the other day, wouldnt you say?

To his part, he is able to convey quite a few emotions/ideas without a single word of text.

So can infants and toddlers. Funny that.