(02-27-2020 12:34 AM)ddramone Wrote:  Truthfully, it appears more of the same ol', same ol': overhyped Memphis HS basketball players lead to high recruiting rankings, high pre-season rankings and... March 'sadness'.

In other thread, I mentioned how Memphis has had 6 - yes six - top-25 pre-season rankings in the last 10 years AND...a grand total of ONE NCAA tournament win.

The common denominator is that both CJP and Penny parlayed Memphis HS talent into high pre-season expectations and then, as the season progressed, things would fall apart (to a degree).

uhhh...Memphis HS talent did not lead to the high rankings and expectation. Wiseman, PA, Boogie, and Lester did. (Sure, Wiseman is "local" but hard to argue that one.) DJ is really the only true local recruit that was one of the keys to the #1 ranking.

Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

(02-27-2020 08:50 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 01:18 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 12:34 AM)ddramone Wrote:  Truthfully, it appears more of the same ol', same ol': overhyped Memphis HS basketball players lead to high recruiting rankings, high pre-season rankings and... March 'sadness'.

In other thread, I mentioned how Memphis has had 6 - yes six - top-25 pre-season rankings in the last 10 years AND...a grand total of ONE NCAA tournament win.

The common denominator is that both CJP and Penny parlayed Memphis HS talent into high pre-season expectations and then, as the season progressed, things would fall apart (to a degree).

I really, really like Penny and desperately want him/us to win. He's got 2-3 more years to make it happen. I think he can do it. He's smart, ambitious and humble enough to know that he may need to change things up a bit.

Truthfully, Penny has wildly exceeded all of my expectations in terms of media relations and program management. He is extremely professional with the media, the team may not play well at times, but there's no sense of infighting, agendas, etc..And he has done this with virtually no D-1 coaching experience.

Definitely disagree with this take.

Precious, Lester, Boogie, Thomas, Baugh is our starting lineup

This starting 5 should be the finishing 5 too.

And BTW, I'm tired of hearing we don't have JW (he was on the team for a total of 3 games) & tired of hearing Penny has no previous D-1 coaching experience - just excuses. Most continuing to use these excuses are the same ones that said Penny didn't need D-1 experience when hired, he was a great coach already & who continue to excuse the inability of Alo & Harris to lead this team - now with 2 yrs experience at the D-1 level. This when there is virtually no offensive continuity & we struggle to score 60 pts per game. We need an offensive structure that gets scorers the ball where they can be successful - we have way better talent than our record. Where is that team offense?

I know.what.you are saying. You can acknowledge the circumstances and still question the level of coaching based on.how.disorganized they look. In this.case you just need to wait until they are a team of sophmores and juniors that still look sloppy before people get that this is Pastner 2.0

(02-27-2020 05:40 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

I'm just saying you are coming to the wrong conclusion about this team. Other than James and DJ, no other Memphis kid was ranked inside the top 100. And I don't think anyone would rightfully argue James or DJ was over-ranked.

The Memphis kids largely did NOT lead to the high expectations this year. James, Precious, Boogie, DJ, and Lester did.

The reason for March Sadness this year is not over-hype. It's NCAA, #1 guy quitting, injury, and youth.

(02-27-2020 05:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:40 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

I'm just saying you are coming to the wrong conclusion about this team. Other than James and DJ, no other Memphis kid was ranked inside the top 100. And I don't think anyone would rightfully argue James or DJ was over-ranked.

The Memphis kids largely did NOT lead to the high expectations this year. James, Precious, Boogie, DJ, and Lester did.

The reason for March Sadness this year is not over-hype. It's NCAA, #1 guy quitting, injury, and youth.

All valid but all excuses given that we still have games to play & high level talent available to play them.

I see this in youth soccer. Win at all cost by having the most athletic team but when they get to U15, the technical kids kill them

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(02-27-2020 12:34 AM)ddramone Wrote:  Truthfully, it appears more of the same ol', same ol': overhyped Memphis HS basketball players lead to high recruiting rankings, high pre-season rankings and... March 'sadness'.

In other thread, I mentioned how Memphis has had 6 - yes six - top-25 pre-season rankings in the last 10 years AND...a grand total of ONE NCAA tournament win.

The common denominator is that both CJP and Penny parlayed Memphis HS talent into high pre-season expectations and then, as the season progressed, things would fall apart (to a degree).

To be fair, the Memphis talent recruited by Pastner was high quality and quite skilled. The issue was Pastner just couldn't coach a roach to crawl. Instead of getting better at coaching, he would just go out and recruit over hyped players without having a system in mind as to how he wanted the team to play.

The issue this year has largely to do with Wiseman quitting. Penny structured the team around Wiseman and recruited complementary pieces to suit Wiseman's game. The other players are talented enough to complement Wiseman's skills and game such that the team was destined for greatness. But, without Wiseman, we have to now thrust players into primary roles that they probably are not suited for. Even Achiewa wants to play on the wing, but has to play more in the post on this team. The players just haven't grown into the roles Penny needs them to play in order for this team to be successful without Wiseman.

(02-27-2020 06:06 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:40 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

I'm just saying you are coming to the wrong conclusion about this team. Other than James and DJ, no other Memphis kid was ranked inside the top 100. And I don't think anyone would rightfully argue James or DJ was over-ranked.

The Memphis kids largely did NOT lead to the high expectations this year. James, Precious, Boogie, DJ, and Lester did.

The reason for March Sadness this year is not over-hype. It's NCAA, #1 guy quitting, injury, and youth.

All valid but all excuses given that we still have games to play & high level talent available to play them.

It is an explanation, not an excuse.

(To quote a local reporter...)
Name another team in the history of college basketball that has made it into the NCAA tourney after losing their #1 player between the start of the season and Christmas, and their #3 player before Feb 1.

What is happening to us is what always happens in these situations. It sucks and is disappointing, but not unexpected. To expect differently is to expect this team to do something none before ever have.

(02-28-2020 04:23 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 06:06 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:40 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

I'm just saying you are coming to the wrong conclusion about this team. Other than James and DJ, no other Memphis kid was ranked inside the top 100. And I don't think anyone would rightfully argue James or DJ was over-ranked.

The Memphis kids largely did NOT lead to the high expectations this year. James, Precious, Boogie, DJ, and Lester did.

The reason for March Sadness this year is not over-hype. It's NCAA, #1 guy quitting, injury, and youth.

All valid but all excuses given that we still have games to play & high level talent available to play them.

It is an explanation, not an excuse.

(To quote a local reporter...)
Name another team in the history of college basketball that has made it into the NCAA tourney after losing their #1 player between the start of the season and Christmas, and their #3 player before Feb 1.

What is happening to us is what always happens in these situations. It sucks and is disappointing, but not unexpected. To expect differently is to expect this team to do something none before ever have.

I agree with all that Gary is saying, but even Gary concedes that there is no reason to get blown out by 40 by Tulsa, or losing to some of the other teams we have lost to that has less talent that our current roster has.

We haven't had many really good basketball players to compliment our great athleticism is a long time.

(02-28-2020 04:23 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 06:06 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:57 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-27-2020 05:40 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Look at CJP's recruiting...overwhelmingly Memphis based.

I am not saying that it's wrong to be Memphis-based, it's just that Memphis-based talent seems to be consistently overrated. There are very, very few D-1 teams that have had ONE NCAA tournament win in the last 10 years while simultaneously having 6 pre-season Top-25 rankings.

I'm just saying you are coming to the wrong conclusion about this team. Other than James and DJ, no other Memphis kid was ranked inside the top 100. And I don't think anyone would rightfully argue James or DJ was over-ranked.

The Memphis kids largely did NOT lead to the high expectations this year. James, Precious, Boogie, DJ, and Lester did.

The reason for March Sadness this year is not over-hype. It's NCAA, #1 guy quitting, injury, and youth.

All valid but all excuses given that we still have games to play & high level talent available to play them.

It is an explanation, not an excuse.

(To quote a local reporter...)
Name another team in the history of college basketball that has made it into the NCAA tourney after losing their #1 player between the start of the season and Christmas, and their #3 player before Feb 1.

What is happening to us is what always happens in these situations. It sucks and is disappointing, but not unexpected. To expect differently is to expect this team to do something none before ever have.

If you don't think this logic expressed over & over by the coach, the media & fans affects the mental & emotional state of the players you have lost your ability of critical thinking. It's all conditioning to absolve the program (and all aspects of it) of the results achieved, despite the fact we have more talent than any teams we are playing in conference - and we still have important games to left to play.