ODU Monarchs

Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
Author Message
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,533
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 106
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 08:54 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 09:19 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 01:10 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 12:12 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Look, it’s another “raise your hand if you’re miserable” thread! The comments that make me laugh the most are “I won’t stand for this, how can u accept this?” It’s soo soft. Jeez, I’m not sure if it’s sad or funny. A little bit of both I guess. Did the coach yell at the players again in this game? This is unbelievable!

No, what’s truly unbelievable is that anyone finds this trash product watchable or acceptable.

How soft are you that you just accept any crap anyone gives you because you are afraid to criticize anything? If you wanted a nice juicy steak for dinner and go to a gourmet restaurant and order one and then the waiter brings you out Taco Bell do you just accept it and eat it? The true soft posters are the ones who refuse to see how far this program has truly fallen.

NOBODY FINDS THIS ACCEPTABLE.

This is the problem I have with the frontline of the Fire JJ squadron. It's not that he's beyond reproach or shouldn't be questioned. It's this combination of patting yourselves on the back for being the first to call for his firing (or never being happy with him in the first place) while building up this strawman argument that everyone who isn't in lockstep with your view is blindly in love with him and cannot accept any criticism about him. It is entirely possible — and, I would submit, very reasonable — to be happy with things he's done well, not be happy with things he hasn't done well, and weight all those factors in an evolving view of whether he should be coach here.

It's like playing poker with someone who goes all-in or folds on every hand.

This. No one is happy about this year. Hell, if you had told me before the season that Malik Curry would have the year he's having, I would have crowned us CUSA champs. PG was supposed to be our weak spot. Other positions just haven't worked out, for a variety of reasons.

I've mentioned before that I see a team with some good young parts. It's up to JJ to develop these guys, and he has 3 scholarships to add other pieces that we need.

Coming off a season where JJ checked all of the boxes, I don't see a need to blow it up and start over, at least not yer.

In any of the ODU's offseasons, has Jeff ever landed the missing piece we needed in our recruiting efforts?

Do you really think hes going to land our missing pieces?

All the years missing out on solid frontcourt players has eventually caught up to us in that now we're playing 2 sophmores in Kalu and Reece. The experience isnt there and we're feeling it.

Same smell after every season.

I don't know, were any of the additions last year of Kithcart, Ezikpe, Wade, or Dickens the missing pieces to winning the conference?
02-24-2020 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MonarchManiac Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,578
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 208
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Norfolk, VA
Post: #42
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-23-2020 06:09 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:39 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 01:10 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 12:12 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Look, it’s another “raise your hand if you’re miserable” thread! The comments that make me laugh the most are “I won’t stand for this, how can u accept this?” It’s soo soft. Jeez, I’m not sure if it’s sad or funny. A little bit of both I guess. Did the coach yell at the players again in this game? This is unbelievable!

No, what’s truly unbelievable is that anyone finds this trash product watchable or acceptable.

How soft are you that you just accept any crap anyone gives you because you are afraid to criticize anything? If you wanted a nice juicy steak for dinner and go to a gourmet restaurant and order one and then the waiter brings you out Taco Bell do you just accept it and eat it? The true soft posters are the ones who refuse to see how far this program has truly fallen.

NOBODY FINDS THIS ACCEPTABLE.

This is the problem I have with the frontline of the Fire JJ squadron. It's not that he's beyond reproach or shouldn't be questioned. It's this combination of patting yourselves on the back for being the first to call for his firing (or never being happy with him in the first place) while building up this strawman argument that everyone who isn't in lockstep with your view is blindly in love with him and cannot accept any criticism about him. It is entirely possible — and, I would submit, very reasonable — to be happy with things he's done well, not be happy with things he hasn't done well, and weight all those factors in an evolving view of whether he should be coach here.

It's like playing poker with someone who goes all-in or folds on every hand.
Pretty much this.

It was asked what I thought correct posting posture should be? It would be posting your fire jj thread in one of the OTHER TWO fire jj threads. We alllllll get it. People want him to be let go now.

It's not. going. to. happen. Until at least next year. So chill with the constant deluge or call

Are you happy it's not going to happen? Are you looking forward to more mediocre hoops? Just wondering.

Did I say any of that? Don't put words in my mouth.

I am only saying that this board becomes such a pain when this is the only topic in every single damn thread. The complainer bunch just loves to incessantly whine and then do nothing about it. Tired of the empty complaining. Either do something about it or shutup.
02-24-2020 09:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EverRespect Offline
Free Kaplony
*

Posts: 31,322
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1156
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #43
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 09:33 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 06:09 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:39 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 01:10 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  No, what’s truly unbelievable is that anyone finds this trash product watchable or acceptable.

How soft are you that you just accept any crap anyone gives you because you are afraid to criticize anything? If you wanted a nice juicy steak for dinner and go to a gourmet restaurant and order one and then the waiter brings you out Taco Bell do you just accept it and eat it? The true soft posters are the ones who refuse to see how far this program has truly fallen.

NOBODY FINDS THIS ACCEPTABLE.

This is the problem I have with the frontline of the Fire JJ squadron. It's not that he's beyond reproach or shouldn't be questioned. It's this combination of patting yourselves on the back for being the first to call for his firing (or never being happy with him in the first place) while building up this strawman argument that everyone who isn't in lockstep with your view is blindly in love with him and cannot accept any criticism about him. It is entirely possible — and, I would submit, very reasonable — to be happy with things he's done well, not be happy with things he hasn't done well, and weight all those factors in an evolving view of whether he should be coach here.

It's like playing poker with someone who goes all-in or folds on every hand.
Pretty much this.

It was asked what I thought correct posting posture should be? It would be posting your fire jj thread in one of the OTHER TWO fire jj threads. We alllllll get it. People want him to be let go now.

It's not. going. to. happen. Until at least next year. So chill with the constant deluge or call

Are you happy it's not going to happen? Are you looking forward to more mediocre hoops? Just wondering.

Did I say any of that? Don't put words in my mouth.

I am only saying that this board becomes such a pain when this is the only topic in every single damn thread. The complainer bunch just loves to incessantly whine and then do nothing about it. Tired of the empty complaining. Either do something about it or shutup.

Do what? What do you want us to do, send Lil' Woody private emails that he can ignore or his staff cut and paste a canned response?

Unless you are a high roller and I imagine none or very few of us are, this is the ONLY thing where there is any impact. Thanks to the failed media outlets (see the next thread), this board IS the only ODU media coverage that exists. We are the columnists. Even if there was a functioning and independent Virginian Pilot writing critical pieces, this board still gets higher ratings and more eyes. Welcome to 2020.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2020 09:48 AM by EverRespect.)
02-24-2020 09:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bit_9 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 10,964
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 297
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #44
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2020 09:56 AM by bit_9.)
02-24-2020 09:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Monarchblue Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 170
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 01:20 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  Let's pretend Jones resigns at the end of this season. What is the bar for his replacement? Assume the new coach has been at the helm for five years. How many CUSA titles would realistically be expected? How many NCAA tournament wins in those five years? What would we need to see in order for "The Program is in Freefall" thoughts to disappear? Not being sarcastic...genuinely interested to hear some opinions.

For me, it is about trajectory. I want to see the program grow into a top mid major program, and I am willing to patient, even through seasons like this one, if we see that the program is on an upward trajectory as a whole. Once it plateaus, my patience wear thin pretty quickly, because the only way to elevate the program is to make decisive decisions when things are no longer progressing toward your goal. I get that is a cutthroat way of looking at it, and I understand that is not how we treat our employees in the business world, but D1 college coaching is a uniquely results driven business, and I believe that relentlessly working toward the goal of being exceptional should be the only approach for a program with the money and infrastructure that ODU Basketball has.

The flip side of this is the reason I would be willing to fire a coach that was in the NCAAT a year ago. The trajectory for JJ is flat at best. We have seen the top, and it was a one year peak. As a whole, we are looking at a program that is pretty stagnant, even if that stagnation has occurred at a level that, in and of itself, is not bad. It just isn't good enough, in my opinion. The level we are currently at is not the end of the line. It is not the best we can be. So, if we are stuck and we are not as good as we can be, I believe we need to move on quickly, before the stagnation turns into apathy, which it honestly already has in many ways.
02-24-2020 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Monarchblue Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 170
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #46
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

I disagree. I am pretty sure that the athletic dept at least knows the temperature of this group, if not all the gory details.
02-24-2020 10:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
odu09 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,163
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 386
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Norfolk
Post: #47
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 01:20 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  Let's pretend Jones resigns at the end of this season. What is the bar for his replacement? Assume the new coach has been at the helm for five years. How many CUSA titles would realistically be expected? How many NCAA tournament wins in those five years? What would we need to see in order for "The Program is in Freefall" thoughts to disappear? Not being sarcastic...genuinely interested to hear some opinions.

This question is really broad and others have addressed it well. Many people have already said what I'm about to say. Just a reminder: we are in a one-bid league with a SOS in the 150s. Last year SOS was 233. Having stated that, my minimum would be:

(1) One conference championship every 4 years (has JJ accomplished this in his 7 years? yes, but this means he needs another one next year)

(2) Two NIT appearances every 4 years (has JJ accomplished this in his 7 years? no)

(3) A down year means .500 or better (has JJ accomplished this? not unless he wins the next 3 games plus 3 games in the CUSAT).

(4) A solid recruiting class every year. This one is a little harder to define.

That is where I'd like this program to be as a mid major in a one-bid league. I understand at-large is pretty much out of the question being in this conference unfortunately. Why can we not just dominate the league and be like a SDSU? I'd love for us to be there.

Props are due: JJ was able to get us ranked for the first time ever, though it lasted one short week. That's about the end of the props.

What concerns me is we have 0 momentum coming off a championship. I always wanted a championship because of what is implied: the implication is you are trending in the right direction and able to build a good program. Somehow the very next year we only have one high school commit.
02-24-2020 10:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EverRespect Offline
Free Kaplony
*

Posts: 31,322
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1156
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #48
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

I disagree. I am pretty sure that the athletic dept at least knows the temperature of this group, if not all the gory details.

They'd be best served to engage and tell people where and why they are wrong. It is going to be a rough period of stagnation or regression until they accept the fact that social media (which I consider this) is where people go today for news and insight. Ignoring won't make it better. Lil' Woody's administration is totally unprepared for the new media. It seems they think since the Pilot and DP have failed, they can make decisions in smokey rooms with no community engagement, independent input, and have zero resistance. This simply fills that void. If they don't get onboard with social media, it is going to be a big problem when the established high rolling pool begins to die off and they've done nothing to engage the next generation of fans. Times a changin'.
02-24-2020 10:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bit_9 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 10,964
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 297
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #49
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 10:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

I disagree. I am pretty sure that the athletic dept at least knows the temperature of this group, if not all the gory details.

They'd be best served to engage and tell people where and why they are wrong. It is going to be a rough period of stagnation or regression until they accept the fact that social media (which I consider this) is where people go today for news and insight. Ignoring won't make it better. Lil' Woody's administration is totally unprepared for the new media. It seems they think since the Pilot and DP have failed, they can make decisions in smokey rooms with no community engagement, independent input, and have zero resistance. This simply fills that void. If they don't get onboard with social media, it is going to be a big problem when the established high rolling pool begins to die off and they've done nothing to engage the next generation of fans. Times a changin'.


I can get behind that premise with some level of standard deviation applied. As we all know the comments section of the news paper online does not make up the general public. That being said I think we do have a pretty strong social media presence though.

These boards are filled with fanatics and it's unreasonable to expect an air craft carrier to make turns and changes because of a handful of people at the bow screaming out different things.
02-24-2020 10:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
monarx Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,388
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 268
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
I’ve been expecting that jump to top tier MM for over a decade. It seemed like we were on an upward trajectory for a long time. Other than a small downturn at the end of the Capel and BT years, this program had been on the rise for decades. It seems to have grown stagnant under JJ. I want an excellent season to be the likes of what Dayton, VCU, St Mary’s have been having. Top 25. If they can do it, so can we. A ranked team once a decade at least. A very good year should equate to an NCAA appearance. And that should haven at least once every four years. And an NIT every four as well. So a meaningful post season appearance half the time. With rebuilding seasons in between. By that measurement we had many very good years with Purnell, Capel and Taylor.
02-24-2020 11:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MonarchManiac Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,578
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 208
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Norfolk, VA
Post: #51
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

This is my sentiment also. Although I do believe there ware things the keyboard warriors could attempt rather than just complain.

Contrary to what it may seem I LIKE all of you guys, even the ultra negative. But daaaaang it is depressing to get on here sometimes. I just wish people could appreciate the good things when they do happen. Even the games where we have played well this year (few, I know) the thread eventually devolves into the same thing. Football was the same way.
02-24-2020 11:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Mo Blue Den You Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,500
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation: 41
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location:
Post: #52
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 09:32 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 08:54 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 09:19 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 05:25 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 01:10 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  No, what’s truly unbelievable is that anyone finds this trash product watchable or acceptable.

How soft are you that you just accept any crap anyone gives you because you are afraid to criticize anything? If you wanted a nice juicy steak for dinner and go to a gourmet restaurant and order one and then the waiter brings you out Taco Bell do you just accept it and eat it? The true soft posters are the ones who refuse to see how far this program has truly fallen.

NOBODY FINDS THIS ACCEPTABLE.

This is the problem I have with the frontline of the Fire JJ squadron. It's not that he's beyond reproach or shouldn't be questioned. It's this combination of patting yourselves on the back for being the first to call for his firing (or never being happy with him in the first place) while building up this strawman argument that everyone who isn't in lockstep with your view is blindly in love with him and cannot accept any criticism about him. It is entirely possible — and, I would submit, very reasonable — to be happy with things he's done well, not be happy with things he hasn't done well, and weight all those factors in an evolving view of whether he should be coach here.

It's like playing poker with someone who goes all-in or folds on every hand.

This. No one is happy about this year. Hell, if you had told me before the season that Malik Curry would have the year he's having, I would have crowned us CUSA champs. PG was supposed to be our weak spot. Other positions just haven't worked out, for a variety of reasons.

I've mentioned before that I see a team with some good young parts. It's up to JJ to develop these guys, and he has 3 scholarships to add other pieces that we need.

Coming off a season where JJ checked all of the boxes, I don't see a need to blow it up and start over, at least not yer.

In any of the ODU's offseasons, has Jeff ever landed the missing piece we needed in our recruiting efforts?

Do you really think hes going to land our missing pieces?

All the years missing out on solid frontcourt players has eventually caught up to us in that now we're playing 2 sophmores in Kalu and Reece. The experience isnt there and we're feeling it.

Same smell after every season.

I don't know, were any of the additions last year of Kithcart, Ezikpe, Wade, or Dickens the missing pieces to winning the conference?

No they weren't. Maybe it was because we had continuity with Caver and Stith at seniors. Heres to hoping we can keep all our sophmores from leaving early.

But then the argument is "how many transfers blah blah blah" and "that averages to 2 or more transfers per team".
02-24-2020 11:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EverRespect Offline
Free Kaplony
*

Posts: 31,322
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1156
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #53
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 10:59 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 10:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 10:18 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

I disagree. I am pretty sure that the athletic dept at least knows the temperature of this group, if not all the gory details.

They'd be best served to engage and tell people where and why they are wrong. It is going to be a rough period of stagnation or regression until they accept the fact that social media (which I consider this) is where people go today for news and insight. Ignoring won't make it better. Lil' Woody's administration is totally unprepared for the new media. It seems they think since the Pilot and DP have failed, they can make decisions in smokey rooms with no community engagement, independent input, and have zero resistance. This simply fills that void. If they don't get onboard with social media, it is going to be a big problem when the established high rolling pool begins to die off and they've done nothing to engage the next generation of fans. Times a changin'.


I can get behind that premise with some level of standard deviation applied. As we all know the comments section of the news paper online does not make up the general public. That being said I think we do have a pretty strong social media presence though.

These boards are filled with fanatics and it's unreasonable to expect an air craft carrier to make turns and changes because of a handful of people at the bow screaming out different things.

I guess my point is that information is faster and more plentiful than they can keep up with. You can't expect a newspaper columnist (that nobody reads) writing a weekly piece or someone like Harry Minium (who nobody reads) who writes less athletic related material than that to have even a sliver of control control over a narrative. No, I wouldn't expect him to fire x, y, and z every week because Razor woke up on the wrong side of the bed... but maybe someone coming dedicated to social media Full Time on here, and yes even the FB comments page, responding to concerns and letting us know...

"Hey we know we have some gaps to address and are working really hard on getting a 6'10" freshman/JUCO/grad transfer center for next season that we really like and think we have a shot at. With Wade and Curry returning, this would create matchup problems for our opponents defenses by keeping them honest which will open up our offense, rhythm, and even shooting."

Currently there is zero information and zero transparency. Not even the group of fans on here trying their best to defend the administration are ever on the same page so if nothing else it would do that.
02-24-2020 11:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,533
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 106
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #54
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 11:05 AM)monarx Wrote:  I’ve been expecting that jump to top tier MM for over a decade. It seemed like we were on an upward trajectory for a long time. Other than a small downturn at the end of the Capel and BT years, this program had been on the rise for decades. It seems to have grown stagnant under JJ. I want an excellent season to be the likes of what Dayton, VCU, St Mary’s have been having. Top 25. If they can do it, so can we. A ranked team once a decade at least. A very good year should equate to an NCAA appearance. And that should haven at least once every four years. And an NIT every four as well. So a meaningful post season appearance half the time. With rebuilding seasons in between. By that measurement we had many very good years with Purnell, Capel and Taylor.

Capel thrown in because of the team he inherited? That was the only top 100 team we had under Capel. We had 2-3 seasons under Capel that are even worse than this years team.
02-24-2020 01:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mac Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,027
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 89
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 01:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 11:05 AM)monarx Wrote:  I’ve been expecting that jump to top tier MM for over a decade. It seemed like we were on an upward trajectory for a long time. Other than a small downturn at the end of the Capel and BT years, this program had been on the rise for decades. It seems to have grown stagnant under JJ. I want an excellent season to be the likes of what Dayton, VCU, St Mary’s have been having. Top 25. If they can do it, so can we. A ranked team once a decade at least. A very good year should equate to an NCAA appearance. And that should haven at least once every four years. And an NIT every four as well. So a meaningful post season appearance half the time. With rebuilding seasons in between. By that measurement we had many very good years with Purnell, Capel and Taylor.

Capel thrown in because of the team he inherited? That was the only top 100 team we had under Capel. We had 2-3 seasons under Capel that are even worse than this years team.

Just for the hell of it: Some coaching records of recent Old Dominion coaches.

Oliver Purnell:
15-15
21-8
21-10

Jeff Capel
21-12
18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9
11-19
13-18

Blaine "the comedian" Taylor. ALL TIME WINS LEADER at ODU.
13-16
12-15
17-12
28-6 **ODU School record**
24-10
24-9
18-16
25-10
27-9
27-7
22-14
2-20

Jeff Jones
18-18
27-8
25-13
19-12
25-7
26-9
11-17
02-24-2020 01:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
odu09 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,163
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 386
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Norfolk
Post: #56
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 01:37 PM)mac Wrote:  Just for the hell of it: Some coaching records of recent Old Dominion coaches.

Oliver Purnell:
15-15
21-8
21-10

Jeff Capel
21-12
18-13
22-11
12-16
25-9
11-19; 207
13-18; 118

Blaine "the comedian" Taylor. ALL TIME WINS LEADER at ODU.
13-16; 146
12-15; 164
17-12; 110
28-6; 188
24-10; 141
24-9; 96
18-16; 101
25-10; 191
27-9; 73
27-7; 62
22-14; 103
2-20; 184

Jeff Jones
18-18; 145
27-8; 117
25-13; 176
19-12; 193
25-7; 233
26-9; 158
11-17; 153

Just for the hell of it, I included SOS. The site I used only went back to 2009, then picked up another site that only went back to 2001. Point is not all 25 win seasons are equal and should not be treated as such.
02-24-2020 01:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ODU BBALL Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,817
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 524
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 09:56 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  Ever, I think you proved the point. You can't do anything. Nobody enjoys losing or the state of things but some chose to not ***** incessantly about it and try and find a sliver of something positive about things. Very few people on this forum have the ability to change anything, in fact I would go so far as really nobody. We're an echo chamber and is getting insufferable to read because every single thread devolves into the same discussion.

It's the internet. It's a forum. I'm not some gestapo iron fist mod that wants to ban people or lock threads constantly so I let it go but even I am tired of reading the same thing over and over.

"At least we have x." Does not equal "I love where we are as a program and have rainbows growing out my ass"

Just a couple of comments specifically regarding the two high lighted statements above. Although I high lighted your comments, please note that the comments I am making are more general in nature and not directed specifically to you. Your post just made a convenient vehicle to which I could reference my own thoughts regarding the topic being discussed.

** This thread is specifically listed as "Fire Jeff Jones Part 3". If it is left open (unlike the previous threads that a moderator locked) then it COULD be a place for people that were so inclined to vent their frustrations and explain their rational for wanting Jeff to be replaced. If "other" threads became places where such talk was taking place, any poster could step in (if so inclined) and politely ask them to move the comments to this thread.

** Due to the very nature of this thread's topic "Fire Jeff Jones Part 3", ANYONE that would get "tired of reading the same thing over and over" would have a very easy solution if this became the #1 location for such commentary to take place ..... DON'T OPEN THIS THREAD OR YOU WOULD LIKELY READ SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T WANT TO. If you did decide to open it, don't ***** about it after reading how (oddly enough given the topic) someone wanted to give their ideas and reasons that Jeff should be fired. If someone wanted to give a counter point to a poster's rational that should be fine as long as it wasn't strictly b******g about it because they disagreed.

People have every right to be dissatisfied with where the program is. Some see it on a downward incline with no upswing in sight. Others see it as a temporary downward incline with a significant upswing in sight potentially as soon as next season. There is no certainty either way. Just gut feelings and educated guesses ... same as always. The best indicator of the future to me is past history and what it shows, but even that as a tool is an inexact science. Past history tells me to expect ODU to rebound at least somewhat from this season and be more like the average of Jeff's teams while at ODU. Good enough for some, not good enough for others.
02-24-2020 01:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,302
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 813
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #58
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 10:35 AM)odu09 Wrote:  This question is really broad and others have addressed it well. Many people have already said what I'm about to say. Just a reminder: we are in a one-bid league with a SOS in the 150s. Last year SOS was 233. Having stated that, my minimum would be:

(1) One conference championship every 4 years (has JJ accomplished this in his 7 years? yes, but this means he needs another one next year)

I think it's a reasonable goal but not a reasonable expectation, because despite what people may think about CUSA, there's always a few quality programs in there at ODU's level. In the time since the current CUSA took form, Middle Tennessee is the only program with more than one tournament title — and they're not likely to get back there any time soon. WKU, which has at least as good a claim as ODU at expectations of excellence, has zero titles. The distribution of good teams in a given year makes it difficult for anyone to win one title every four years. Definitely something you'd hope for but I think the makeup of the conference makes it a lot more difficult than you're imagining it would be.

Quote:(2) Two NIT appearances every 4 years (has JJ accomplished this in his 7 years? no)

There aren't going to be too many programs in Division 1 that can have three years of NCAA/NIT out of every four. Basically it's the power programs and the schools like New Mexico State that can bully their overmatched conference. Especially coming out of a one-bid conference. In all likelihood, the only school in Virginia to be able to do that at the end of the season will be Virginia.

Quote:(3) A down year means .500 or better (has JJ accomplished this? not unless he wins the next 3 games plus 3 games in the CUSAT).

"Down year" is nebulous, because there's people here who would point to a number of JJ's 20-plus win seasons and call them "down years." VCU is still going to have 20 wins this season but they're definitely having a down year for a senior-laden team that landed in the Top 25 early on. If you're saying that ODU should never ever go under .500 ever, well, if North Carolina can do it, I don't think ODU is exempt from it.
Quote:(4) A solid recruiting class every year. This one is a little harder to define.

I wish basketball fans as a whole would slow their roll on recruiting classes because a) star rankings are variable and inherently yoked to the eye of the beholder, and b) the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Four-star recruits crap out, and no-star recruits become legends. Obviously the dice are loaded in your favor with more high-profile gets, but ask Shaka how his lunch-pail VCU teams compared to his 4/5-star recruit Texas teams. (This also goes for people who are all "but so-and-so only got offers from smaller programs; we should be getting guys who get offers from P5s and AAC schools!" If they help the program, who cares who else offered them? Do you think Davidson had regrets about signing Steph Curry because Winthrop and a pre-FF VCU were his only other offers?)

Quote:That is where I'd like this program to be as a mid major in a one-bid league. I understand at-large is pretty much out of the question being in this conference unfortunately. Why can we not just dominate the league and be like a SDSU? I'd love for us to be there.

There's the crux of the problem. It's not that easy to "just dominate" ANY conference. San Diego State has never "dominated" the Mountain West, certainly not like they have this season. They finished outside the top 3 each of the past three seasons, and while they're definitely the most consistent program in the conference, they're also not the no-doubt-about-it champs every season. New Mexico State dominates their conference, but what's to dominate of a group that includes a bunch of D2 callups, low-performing programs and a school (Chicago State) that's closer to folding than winning 20 games? I guess if ODU moved to the Big South they could have that, but what's the point?

For me, expectations vary depending on the circumstances, but I think 20 wins a season is reasonable unless a) it's a very young team or b) they're playing an overproof OOC schedule. I'd certainly like to see ODU go to the NCAAs at least one every four years but I'd also be OK if every recruiting class made the postseason at least twice. I don't really care how down a "down year" is so long as there's moves made to turn it around and not let it inform their norm. I'd like for them to recruit better but I'm sure Duke and Kentucky fans also wish their schools would recruit better; that's just part of the territory.

I'm not ready to give up on JJ yet. If ODU has another poor season next year, I think it's definitely a consideration. He still has a margin of error, but this season ate a lot of it up.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2020 02:05 PM by Cyniclone.)
02-24-2020 02:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Monarchblue Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,665
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 170
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #59
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
Seriously, I think the state of the athletic program is the reason for the state of these boards, not the posters. This did happen because we all of a sudden got a bunch of negative posters, it happened because there is not much good to talk about.
02-24-2020 02:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,533
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 106
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #60
RE: Fire Jeff Jones Part 3
(02-24-2020 02:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Seriously, I think the state of the athletic program is the reason for the state of these boards, not the posters. This did happen because we all of a sudden got a bunch of negative posters, it happened because there is not much good to talk about.

Were you around for the heyday of Blaine? There are a couple posters that still post on here that went on and on about how ODU should be better, fire Blaine, and our offense was too boring.
02-24-2020 03:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.