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The Problem with the Big Ten and ACC's Suggested Transfer Rule
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
The Problem with the Big Ten and ACC's Suggested Transfer Rule
I know there's a thread over on the main board about this, but I have not delved into it much. Rather than digest all that, I figured I would just start a thread here so we can put an SEC spin on this.

Here's a pretty good piece from CBS Sports that covers some of the issues

The primary issue to me is the de facto free agency that would occur. Free agency rules in pro sports tell us basically one thing...competitors gravitate to where they can win.

That won't be the case 100% of the time, but it will be the vast majority of the time. Let's say you've got a QB at Memphis that's really lighting things up. He was undervalued out of high school, but now he was proven himself and opportunities are opening up. Why not just take the first bus out of town for the best program that will give you a shot? Not all the star players will leave the G5 or the lower to middle tier Power schools, but many will and it will only make the rich richer.

A few quotes from the article:

Quote:"That's going to happen, man," a former member of the NCAA Council, who did not want to be identified, said. "I've been hearing murmurs. It seems unstoppable now."


Quote:In the 20 or so other sports -- volleyball, soccer, etc. -- athletes have been allowed to transfer without sitting out. Part of the new rationale for liberalizing transfer rule: A lawsuit was just waiting to be filed due to that inequity. That's NCAA athletics these days.

"Every rationale for making transferring players sit out a year has been thoroughly discredited, leaving only a few millionaire head coaches to whine about roster management," said attorney Tom Mars. "This policy change is long overdue."

Fair point, and I did not realize the other sports already have this rule in place. I'm a little confused as to why the transfer rules would be so different from sport to sport, but it's the NCAA so it doesn't have to make sense.

Nonetheless, we have to be realistic here and admit that the money involved in football and basketball will absolutely impact how these transactions play out. There's probably far fewer shenanigans in the other sports because there's little to no money involved. That and a lot of those athletes aren't getting full ride scholarships anyway. If they think this will function exactly like it does for the non-revenue sports then they're fooling themselves.


Quote:One source close to the process speculated that the NCAA could be staging a legislative public relations gala at its next convention set for January 2021 in Washington, D.C. In the nation's seat of power, in front of the nation's legislators -- some of whom seek to regulate the association -- the NCAA could trot out liberalized transfer rules and name, image and likeness legislation.

I truly despise bureaucrats. That is all.


Quote:This is likely the biggest issue for coaches. In any program, stability is valued above all else. Several sources speculated that teams that lose an overabundance of transfers would have to be made whole, perhaps in the form of relief on the NCAA's annual 25-recruit "hard cap" for football scholarships.

Kansas AD Jeff Long has suggested a 50-man cumulative limit over two seasons that could be applied unevenly. In other words, a school below the 85-scholarship limit in football could sign 35 players one year and 15 the next for a total of 50.

If you're going to have free agency, and that's what this is, then you simply can't have hard-line roster caps. The teams have to be able to fill holes especially in the event of unexpected losses and that's before you get down to the dynamics that some schools are going to be losing several players every single season.


Quote:APR was adopted in 2004 as a way to measure a program's four-year rolling average of athletes' progress toward a degree. If programs don't achieve a 930 APR (equivalent to a 50 percent graduation rate), they are subject to scholarship penalties, even ineligibility for postseason play.

Schools lose APR points when players transfer. A football program that loses 20 transfers would be crippled not only competitively but be in dangers of APR penalties.

Can we just leave the NCAA now?

Who in their right mind trusts this organization to even take the time to comprehend how all their varied and random rules impact each other?

I don't.


Quote:With enhanced transfer freedom, tampering will become even more of an issue with coaches. Luring athletes at other schools to transfer is already prohibited but known to occur.

"We're going to have some cultural shifts in that," Steinbrecher said. "People are going to have to police themselves to some extent. I view it as an ethical issue. The coaches are going to have to have some discussions on that."

Laughable response in my opinion. How many coaches are going to follow rules that don't exist when they typically push the boundaries on rules that are clear cut?

Well anyway, that's my old man rant even though I'm not that old.

Seriously, can we just leave the NCAA? These people don't know what they're doing.
02-22-2020 01:59 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #2
RE: The Problem with the Big Ten and ACC's Suggested Transfer Rule
(02-22-2020 01:59 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I know there's a thread over on the main board about this, but I have not delved into it much. Rather than digest all that, I figured I would just start a thread here so we can put an SEC spin on this.

Here's a pretty good piece from CBS Sports that covers some of the issues

The primary issue to me is the de facto free agency that would occur. Free agency rules in pro sports tell us basically one thing...competitors gravitate to where they can win.

That won't be the case 100% of the time, but it will be the vast majority of the time. Let's say you've got a QB at Memphis that's really lighting things up. He was undervalued out of high school, but now he was proven himself and opportunities are opening up. Why not just take the first bus out of town for the best program that will give you a shot? Not all the star players will leave the G5 or the lower to middle tier Power schools, but many will and it will only make the rich richer.

A few quotes from the article:

Quote:"That's going to happen, man," a former member of the NCAA Council, who did not want to be identified, said. "I've been hearing murmurs. It seems unstoppable now."


Quote:In the 20 or so other sports -- volleyball, soccer, etc. -- athletes have been allowed to transfer without sitting out. Part of the new rationale for liberalizing transfer rule: A lawsuit was just waiting to be filed due to that inequity. That's NCAA athletics these days.

"Every rationale for making transferring players sit out a year has been thoroughly discredited, leaving only a few millionaire head coaches to whine about roster management," said attorney Tom Mars. "This policy change is long overdue."

Fair point, and I did not realize the other sports already have this rule in place. I'm a little confused as to why the transfer rules would be so different from sport to sport, but it's the NCAA so it doesn't have to make sense.

Nonetheless, we have to be realistic here and admit that the money involved in football and basketball will absolutely impact how these transactions play out. There's probably far fewer shenanigans in the other sports because there's little to no money involved. That and a lot of those athletes aren't getting full ride scholarships anyway. If they think this will function exactly like it does for the non-revenue sports then they're fooling themselves.


Quote:One source close to the process speculated that the NCAA could be staging a legislative public relations gala at its next convention set for January 2021 in Washington, D.C. In the nation's seat of power, in front of the nation's legislators -- some of whom seek to regulate the association -- the NCAA could trot out liberalized transfer rules and name, image and likeness legislation.

I truly despise bureaucrats. That is all.


Quote:This is likely the biggest issue for coaches. In any program, stability is valued above all else. Several sources speculated that teams that lose an overabundance of transfers would have to be made whole, perhaps in the form of relief on the NCAA's annual 25-recruit "hard cap" for football scholarships.

Kansas AD Jeff Long has suggested a 50-man cumulative limit over two seasons that could be applied unevenly. In other words, a school below the 85-scholarship limit in football could sign 35 players one year and 15 the next for a total of 50.

If you're going to have free agency, and that's what this is, then you simply can't have hard-line roster caps. The teams have to be able to fill holes especially in the event of unexpected losses and that's before you get down to the dynamics that some schools are going to be losing several players every single season.


Quote:APR was adopted in 2004 as a way to measure a program's four-year rolling average of athletes' progress toward a degree. If programs don't achieve a 930 APR (equivalent to a 50 percent graduation rate), they are subject to scholarship penalties, even ineligibility for postseason play.

Schools lose APR points when players transfer. A football program that loses 20 transfers would be crippled not only competitively but be in dangers of APR penalties.

Can we just leave the NCAA now?

Who in their right mind trusts this organization to even take the time to comprehend how all their varied and random rules impact each other?

I don't.


Quote:With enhanced transfer freedom, tampering will become even more of an issue with coaches. Luring athletes at other schools to transfer is already prohibited but known to occur.

"We're going to have some cultural shifts in that," Steinbrecher said. "People are going to have to police themselves to some extent. I view it as an ethical issue. The coaches are going to have to have some discussions on that."

Laughable response in my opinion. How many coaches are going to follow rules that don't exist when they typically push the boundaries on rules that are clear cut?

Well anyway, that's my old man rant even though I'm not that old.

Seriously, can we just leave the NCAA? These people don't know what they're doing.

1. The Big 10 was for it because they saw what an Ole Miss QB at Michigan did to bring that program up from the dregs, and what a Georgia QB almost accomplished at Ohio State. And there were others there was a former Auburn guy playing for Minnesota, etc.

2. All the NCAA can see is that if the SEC is handicapped it pleases some other conferences. They know damned well if the transfers count against graduation (which they shouldn't) that it further handicaps Southern schools if players can be lured away. What they are counting on is the fact that we have much greater depth on our rosters than they do and that transfers of 3 star athletes from the Big 10 schools to the South won't happen when we have better players on our bench.

3. To counter this all the SEC needs to do is to eliminate rules as a conference that restrict or prohibit transfer to another SEC school. So we can have open transfer but most players will choose to stay in the South closer to family if we don't make it hard on them.

4. There will be no policing and every time a recruiter moves players will move with them.

5. The SEC needs to lobby hard to prevent transfers counting against graduation. We have the leverage.

6. Totally agree on deep sixing the NCAA. I would much rather see the SEC, ACC, and Big 12 pull out. To hell with the PAC if they don't want to. The Big 10 will come along for fear of irrelevance, and because they have some legitimate grievances as well.
02-22-2020 02:21 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #3
RE: The Problem with the Big Ten and ACC's Suggested Transfer Rule
I like the rule overall, but I also think we need to get away from the 25/class signing limit. The only number that should count is the 85.
02-24-2020 04:39 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The Problem with the Big Ten and ACC's Suggested Transfer Rule
Maybe there will be a point that all recruits go through a clearinghouse (beyond eligibility), and the recruits rank/order their top preferences and placed according to playing position, school desirability of the recruit, and academic status, I. e. freshman, transfer, and graduate student with +1 year eligibility.

There is so much inequity and cheating that is excessive; and penalties that are politically and selectively applied.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2020 10:08 PM by OdinFrigg.)
02-24-2020 10:07 PM
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