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Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-21-2020 10:41 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  One other comment. I thought the play we ran with 3.2 left in regulation was horrible. We came out and showed Williams was inbounding and UB called a timeout. Then we came out and still had him inbounding it and their defense stood back behind the nearest Kent players to let him inbound it without trouble. Honestly, I have no idea why we would run that play. Williams is 100% the person who should have the ball because he's the fastest guy. But by having him inbound it he didn't get it until the clock had already started so he barely made it to half court. With them not pressing the ball if anyone but Williams was inbounding it we could've got it to him on the run and he could've got to he arc or closer.

I thought that was a really unimaginative play call and the result was exactly what you'd expect a half court heave after the buzzer.

Agree Zip terrible play call. Sendy played that like he was scared to turn it over. could have had 2 guys at elbow. throw it to buffalo vball line or midcourt area and catch it and hit one of guys that were at elbow sprinting down the court and likely got something near 3 pt line. not the half court shot we got.
02-22-2020 10:54 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-22-2020 10:54 AM)ksu315 Wrote:  
(02-21-2020 10:41 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  One other comment. I thought the play we ran with 3.2 left in regulation was horrible. We came out and showed Williams was inbounding and UB called a timeout. Then we came out and still had him inbounding it and their defense stood back behind the nearest Kent players to let him inbound it without trouble. Honestly, I have no idea why we would run that play. Williams is 100% the person who should have the ball because he's the fastest guy. But by having him inbound it he didn't get it until the clock had already started so he barely made it to half court. With them not pressing the ball if anyone but Williams was inbounding it we could've got it to him on the run and he could've got to he arc or closer.

I thought that was a really unimaginative play call and the result was exactly what you'd expect a half court heave after the buzzer.

Agree Zip terrible play call. Sendy played that like he was scared to turn it over. could have had 2 guys at elbow. throw it to buffalo vball line or midcourt area and catch it and hit one of guys that were at elbow sprinting down the court and likely got something near 3 pt line. not the half court shot we got.

Thanks. But don't call me "zip".
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 11:48 AM by anti-zip.)
02-22-2020 11:47 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
Oh one thing I forgot to mention... How fun was that back and forth between Graves and Roberts part way through the 2nd half? It felt like they both score 10+ straight for their teams. It was unfortunately put to a stop by a questionable 4th foul being called on Roberts sending him to the bench, but while it lasted it was a treat to watch.
02-22-2020 12:35 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-22-2020 12:35 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Oh one thing I forgot to mention... How fun was that back and forth between Graves and Roberts part way through the 2nd half? It felt like they both score 10+ straight for their teams. It was unfortunately put to a stop by a questionable 4th foul being called on Roberts sending him to the bench, but while it lasted it was a treat to watch.


In retrospect, that fourth foul-- and agree a questionable one -- was probably the key to the game for Kent State. Left Kent with just one hot hand on the court for a large chunk of the game.

KSU held the lead at that point by 4-5 points I believe. While not huge, still a 2-possession advantage, which potentially could have grown even more.

BTW ... did anybody notice UB's Graves had not made 7 3s in his last 3-4 games combined.
02-22-2020 01:24 PM
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AlphaFlash Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
All I'm saying is if we're going to spend time transferring in a 6'8 Whittington, make sure you're able to incorporate him into your offense. Have some plays in mind. If they don't work, go back to the drawing board, pull a late night, and come up with something for the guy.
If you're going to recruit a guy like Peterson, you owe it to him not to let him digress over 4 years.
We take risky big point, low percentage shots and always have. That's why our in-conference winning % sucks. We win big when we're hot from the arc, but that's rarely going to happen.
02-22-2020 10:54 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-22-2020 10:54 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  All I'm saying is if we're going to spend time transferring in a 6'8 Whittington, make sure you're able to incorporate him into your offense. Have some plays in mind. If they don't work, go back to the drawing board, pull a late night, and come up with something for the guy.
If you're going to recruit a guy like Peterson, you owe it to him not to let him digress over 4 years.
We take risky big point, low percentage shots and always have. That's why our in-conference winning % sucks. We win big when we're hot from the arc, but that's rarely going to happen.

I read this post and three words come to mind:
-Development-Coaching-Accountability-

The examples of Peterson and Whittington are spot on in my opinion.
02-23-2020 09:20 AM
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burden Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
One more word to add. Recruiting. i think neither of the players mentioned had very high ceilings. Coaching should improve players but don’t expect miracles either.
02-23-2020 01:43 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-23-2020 01:43 PM)burden Wrote:  One more word to add. Recruiting. i think neither of the players mentioned had very high ceilings. Coaching should improve players but don’t expect miracles either.

Ditto this ...

I doubt MP was recruited to be anything more than a role player as I recall Kent and Akron were about his best offers...

PW was recruited to be a Junior backup behind ADR. He finished quite strong last season as I recall, offering hope for a strong senior year. That hasn't materialized.

At the MAC level, improvement does not show itself in leaps and bounds with production. What I consider 'improvement' is consistency. Can a freshman deliver three solid games in a row. Can a sophomore deliver five, can a junior deliver 10. More importantly, are the lows at least close to the average ... or off the map. The highs only tease us about what the potential is.

And while a coach certainly has his part to play ... I think the real onus is on the players to do their off-the-court part. I think DP, considering his injuries, has been about the most consistent player on the team.

Booman, ARob, Phil, CJ, Simons have all had wide ranges between stellar nights and bad. Mitch has had some great efforts off the bench beyond points and rebounds and has had some horrid efforts too.

Collectively, MY OPINION, all of that is why Kent has been an up-and-down team this season.

Across the board, no consistency.

BTW, there are several other MAC teams that could say the same about their outfits.
02-23-2020 04:05 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
They are a mediocre mid-major team. Mediocre teams and mediocre players don't actually play mediocre ball. They play well at times and poorly at times. Inconsistency is the hallmark symptom of mediocrity. Excellent teams and players play well most of the time. Poor teams and players play poorly most of the time. Mediocre teams and players will make you pull your hair out with their "teases" of getting it together, only to follow up with a poor performance.
02-23-2020 07:11 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-23-2020 07:11 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  They are a mediocre mid-major team. Mediocre teams and mediocre players don't actually play mediocre ball. They play well at times and poorly at times. Inconsistency is the hallmark symptom of mediocrity. Excellent teams and players play well most of the time. Poor teams and players play poorly most of the time. Mediocre teams and players will make you pull your hair out with their "teases" of getting it together, only to follow up with a poor performance.

Correct and guilty on all counts. The Buffalo game was exciting but one had the sense once it went to overtime that we had run out of gas. Given the number of seniors on this team we may struggle to reach mediocrity next year.
02-23-2020 08:50 PM
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Older and Older Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-23-2020 08:50 PM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  
(02-23-2020 07:11 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  They are a mediocre mid-major team. Mediocre teams and mediocre players don't actually play mediocre ball. They play well at times and poorly at times. Inconsistency is the hallmark symptom of mediocrity. Excellent teams and players play well most of the time. Poor teams and players play poorly most of the time. Mediocre teams and players will make you pull your hair out with their "teases" of getting it together, only to follow up with a poor performance.

Correct and guilty on all counts. The Buffalo game was exciting but one had the sense once it went to overtime that we had run out of gas. Given the number of seniors on this team we may struggle to reach mediocrity next year.


Agree totally with Mediocre Mid-Major Assessment. Just want to add my 2cents. It all goes back to Elite 8 season , and opportunity to rise up to Butler, Creighton, Gonzaga level. Donors were engaged and opportunity to move program forward was in front of administration. Nothing happened but t-shirt tosses, flashing lights, and talk. MAC center is still a dump , just 20 years older. Administration does a lot of smiling and glad handing, and donors are discouraged, alienated, or have moved on. Opportunity lost. Mediocre Mid-Major indeed
02-24-2020 11:52 AM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
02-24-2020 06:50 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
Older and older, I can think of other such teams Kent State was once on a par with, like Xavier, St. Mary's and Dayton just to name a few. The chance to be a premier mid-major came and went. Heck, you can't even say anymore that Kent State is a premier MAC program. If my memory serves me well, in the last 10 seasons prior to this one they've only been to two MAC finals, winning one.
02-24-2020 07:59 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-24-2020 07:59 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Older and older, I can think of other such teams Kent State was once on a par with, like Xavier, St. Mary's and Dayton just to name a few. The chance to be a premier mid-major came and went. Heck, you can't even say anymore that Kent State is a premier MAC program. If my memory serves me well, in the last 10 seasons prior to this one they've only been to two MAC finals, winning one.

Muskrat: Exactly, We wanted to be Xavier and Dayton but they have
resources, no football and avg min 10,000 fans per game. Also many more basketball boosters than Kent. In many ways even Wright St has passed us by with an excellent facility and fan base. Toledo hasn’t won, but has a solid base, great facility.
KSU thinks marketing ends at tossing T-Shirts and two billboards.
Fresh thinking and evaluation is overdue
02-25-2020 08:29 AM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
(02-25-2020 08:29 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 07:59 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Older and older, I can think of other such teams Kent State was once on a par with, like Xavier, St. Mary's and Dayton just to name a few. The chance to be a premier mid-major came and went. Heck, you can't even say anymore that Kent State is a premier MAC program. If my memory serves me well, in the last 10 seasons prior to this one they've only been to two MAC finals, winning one.

Muskrat: Exactly, We wanted to be Xavier and Dayton but they have
resources, no football and avg min 10,000 fans per game. Also many more basketball boosters than Kent. In many ways even Wright St has passed us by with an excellent facility and fan base. Toledo hasn’t won, but has a solid base, great facility.
KSU thinks marketing ends at tossing T-Shirts and two billboards.
Fresh thinking and evaluation is overdue

Adding to the discussion - it didn't help that we couldn't pay or keep a series of coaches and assistants who were successful. Now the landscape has changed with regard to transfers, media overload, TV timeouts that lengthen the game (go to a Div III game without the TV - much shorter), number of games played and styles of play. I love KSU hoops even endured with passion those bad teams of the early 70s - but the roster turnover reduces my interest.
02-25-2020 11:12 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Kent State vs. University at Buffalo
I think the big problem that we're seeing with up and down play in the MAC (and really all around) can be traced to the 3 point revolution in the NBA. NBA teams have shown that going with the analytics approach of 3s and layups only, can be very successful. The problem with doing that at the MAC level or really college level in general is the three point shooters we get aren't elite so they aren't as consistent. So if you build your offense around three point shooters but you're not able to pull in the best three point shooters you're leaving yourself open to high highs and low lows.

There's two ways to win. Do what everyone else is doing but do it better than everyone. This generally requires getting the best players. The other way is to do what others aren't doing and force them to play your style. Good MAC teams in the past have been able to do this. Go after the PFs that would be lottery picks if if they were 4 inches taller for example. I'm not seeing this type of planning anymore though in part because everyone goes small so those players are more highly valued and recruited. Now it seems MAC schools, and Kent, are going along with the trends instead of thinking outside the box.

An example, at the NBA level, that shows what I'm talking about is the Cavs last night. They tied a franchise record for largest 4th quarter comeback and they did it while playing for the first time (as far as I know) a lineup that I've been screaming for all year. They played Thompson and Love together with Nance at the 3. Conventional NBA wisdom says playing a three big lineup in today's game is a terrible idea but it worked phenomenally. Nance is considered the perfect "small ball 4" but putting him at the 3 gave him more defensive freedom because he didn't need to stay in to rebound and it allowed him a big size advantage on offense. Miami had 17 minutes to figure it out and couldn't do it. The concept is crazy simple. Get the best available players that can all defend and rebound and play them together even if it doesn't fit a conventional lineup.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2020 03:47 PM by anti-zip.)
02-25-2020 12:47 PM
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