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Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
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skyblade Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 12:31 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:22 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 11:10 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  We look awful in zone. We tried it against Houston and it was embarrassingly bad.

Probably because it hasn't been worked on enough. I would actually rather see us go into a pack line type MxM defense in situations as opposed to a zone. We just need to keep guys from being stretched out to the perimeter and guys like Vogt floating any further than 7-8 ft from the basket. Why is Vogt out in the backcourt defending guys for?

Vogt is out there running for the same reason he has been out on the perimeter all year.

Teams watch film. UC regularly switches on picks....means if Vogt has a big in M2M, you pull the big to set a pick on the 3pt line and he is stuck chasing a 6’0” guard to the top and we end up in 2 mismatches until he runs off his man and returns down to the lane.

This staff does some things well but they like doing the same thing over and over and over regardless of what the other team runs.

I can’t imagine this is a very hard team to game plan for if you have some talent on your own roster.

Yeah, I've said it over and over and we have seen in a number of times this season.

The way to beat our defense is to have a 5 who can shoot threes and force Vogt to guard him outside the paint. Then have other guys drive to the bucket and get easy layups. Vogt doesn't move well enough to provide help and we don't seem to have a system for having other guys help - or if we do, we don't execute it well. If Vogt is already in the paint, he is a reasonably good rim protector and rebounder, but his limited movement ability means he needs to stay in the paint.
 
02-20-2020 03:22 PM
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bearcatmark Online
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
It really huts that there just aren't any shooters on this team outside of Jaevin (and Mika though he doesn't look for his shot enough). If you surrounded Vogt with shooting he'd be a lot more affective inside. Teams really pack it in which has hurt Jarron driving as well. They are there waiting to contest everything. We get so many open looks outside but just don't knock nearly enough down.
 
02-20-2020 03:30 PM
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bearcatfan Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
I think we got excited in recent weeks as UC somehow climbed up to the top of the AAC standings. But it's been a struggle all season.

There are just too many weak areas on this team - poor outside shooting, no big body forwards to rebound inside (like a Gary Clark or Danny Fortson), poor defense.

Play was improving until the last several games. Last night was just a poor game defensively and on offense there were just way too many turnovers. I suppose it could be due to exhaustion/fatigue.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2020 03:45 PM by bearcatfan.)
02-20-2020 03:45 PM
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dsquare Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  It really huts that there just aren't any shooters on this team outside of Jaevin (and Mika though he doesn't look for his shot enough). If you surrounded Vogt with shooting he'd be a lot more affective inside. Teams really pack it in which has hurt Jarron driving as well. They are there waiting to contest everything. We get so many open looks outside but just don't knock nearly enough down.

It's even worse because when we really need a shot to win a game, Jaevin doesn't look to be anywhere in sight as the preferred guy to get a look.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2020 04:04 PM by dsquare.)
02-20-2020 04:04 PM
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Yawny Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 04:04 PM)dsquare Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  It really huts that there just aren't any shooters on this team outside of Jaevin (and Mika though he doesn't look for his shot enough). If you surrounded Vogt with shooting he'd be a lot more affective inside. Teams really pack it in which has hurt Jarron driving as well. They are there waiting to contest everything. We get so many open looks outside but just don't knock nearly enough down.

It's even worse because when we really need a shot to win a game, Jaevin doesn't look to be anywhere in sight as the preferred guy to get a look.

To be fair, he was right there and indeed made the shot to send us to 2OT last night.
 
02-20-2020 04:07 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
Thought for sure after Jaevins bomb we'd win

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02-20-2020 04:11 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 04:11 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Thought for sure after Jaevins bomb we'd win

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Yep, sitting there watching that go down I thought it was a dagger to UCF. In UCF's defense, they could have folded many times between that and our raucous crowd but they deserve some credit for hanging tough, despite our disappointing performance.

Bearcatmark said it earlier in this thread: we just don't have enough reliable three point shooters. Jarron's outside shot is off target right now; Jaevin is streaky and probably doesn't shoot enough and MAW may not be comfortable hoisting as often as a freshman. A challenge in recent years has been not having enough deadeye shooters. We'd probably have a couple more Sweet Sixteen banners if so.
 
02-20-2020 04:28 PM
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Nobones Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
I want to just put this out there. I was at the game and at halftime I made a point to try and watch all the guys shot during the warm up for the 2nd half that shot 3 pointers. Now it was a little hard since a guys was standing right in line with the basket so I keep moving back and forth to see if they went in. But the one that actually hit the most 3's during the warm up was McNeal. I was like we are in trouble. I think almost all the others only hit one shot from 3.
 
02-21-2020 05:06 PM
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OKIcat Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-21-2020 05:06 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I want to just put this out there. I was at the game and at halftime I made a point to try and watch all the guys shot during the warm up for the 2nd half that shot 3 pointers. Now it was a little hard since a guys was standing right in line with the basket so I keep moving back and forth to see if they went in. But the one that actually hit the most 3's during the warm up was McNeal. I was like we are in trouble. I think almost all the others only hit one shot from 3.

I do feel badly for McNeal. He gets into most every game and if he had been able to complete a layup, jump shot or free throw in several of those games it could have been the difference.

Brannen has a hastily assembled patchwork quilt this season and, frankly, I'm amazed he's managed to win as much has he has so far. If the wheels are off again tomorrow it doesn't look good for March. But Wednesday night was extraordinarily bad from a season long perspective so I expect a better performance and hope for a better outcome. Winning tomorrow would go a long way toward erasing memories of the UCF game.
 
02-22-2020 10:48 AM
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Nobones Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-22-2020 10:48 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-21-2020 05:06 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I want to just put this out there. I was at the game and at halftime I made a point to try and watch all the guys shot during the warm up for the 2nd half that shot 3 pointers. Now it was a little hard since a guys was standing right in line with the basket so I keep moving back and forth to see if they went in. But the one that actually hit the most 3's during the warm up was McNeal. I was like we are in trouble. I think almost all the others only hit one shot from 3.

I do feel badly for McNeal. He gets into most every game and if he had been able to complete a layup, jump shot or free throw in several of those games it could have been the difference.

Brannen has a hastily assembled patchwork quilt this season and, frankly, I'm amazed he's managed to win as much has he has so far. If the wheels are off again tomorrow it doesn't look good for March. But Wednesday night was extraordinarily bad from a season long perspective so I expect a better performance and hope for a better outcome. Winning tomorrow would go a long way toward erasing memories of the UCF game.

Looking at the career stats for the top 6 starting the season which would be McNeal, Jarron, Williams, Scott, Vogt, and Jaevin. Only Williams and Vogt have had better stats this year than their Career avg. If the others just have a average year we would all be happy. But they are having one their worst years % wise .But each year is different I guess.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 11:08 AM by Nobones.)
02-22-2020 11:04 AM
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dsquare Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-22-2020 10:48 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(02-21-2020 05:06 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I want to just put this out there. I was at the game and at halftime I made a point to try and watch all the guys shot during the warm up for the 2nd half that shot 3 pointers. Now it was a little hard since a guys was standing right in line with the basket so I keep moving back and forth to see if they went in. But the one that actually hit the most 3's during the warm up was McNeal. I was like we are in trouble. I think almost all the others only hit one shot from 3.

I do feel badly for McNeal. He gets into most every game and if he had been able to complete a layup, jump shot or free throw in several of those games it could have been the difference.

Brannen has a hastily assembled patchwork quilt this season and, frankly, I'm amazed he's managed to win as much has he has so far. If the wheels are off again tomorrow it doesn't look good for March. But Wednesday night was extraordinarily bad from a season long perspective so I expect a better performance and hope for a better outcome. Winning tomorrow would go a long way toward erasing memories of the UCF game.

Yea, i don't think folks realize he sat out last year which really seems to have impacted his shooting and game overall. It probably doesn't help when you haven't played with the guys until the last minute, but his stats shooting the ball were very, very good.

https://www.njcaa.org/sports/mbkb/2016-1...mcneal6b86
 
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 11:08 AM by dsquare.)
02-22-2020 11:07 AM
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eroc Online
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 03:22 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:31 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:22 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 11:10 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  We look awful in zone. We tried it against Houston and it was embarrassingly bad.

Probably because it hasn't been worked on enough. I would actually rather see us go into a pack line type MxM defense in situations as opposed to a zone. We just need to keep guys from being stretched out to the perimeter and guys like Vogt floating any further than 7-8 ft from the basket. Why is Vogt out in the backcourt defending guys for?

Vogt is out there running for the same reason he has been out on the perimeter all year.

Teams watch film. UC regularly switches on picks....means if Vogt has a big in M2M, you pull the big to set a pick on the 3pt line and he is stuck chasing a 6’0” guard to the top and we end up in 2 mismatches until he runs off his man and returns down to the lane.

This staff does some things well but they like doing the same thing over and over and over regardless of what the other team runs.

I can’t imagine this is a very hard team to game plan for if you have some talent on your own roster.

Yeah, I've said it over and over and we have seen in a number of times this season.

The way to beat our defense is to have a 5 who can shoot threes and force Vogt to guard him outside the paint. Then have other guys drive to the bucket and get easy layups. Vogt doesn't move well enough to provide help and we don't seem to have a system for having other guys help - or if we do, we don't execute it well. If Vogt is already in the paint, he is a reasonably good rim protector and rebounder, but his limited movement ability means he needs to stay in the paint.

if you have a five that can legit shoot, this is an issue. if the guy is a good shooter for a five, i'll take my chances. i think it was a huge mistake to deviate from the pick and roll D that they had been implementing. Let the big prove that he can beat you from the perimeter because we know that the guards and wings were able to get the rim with impunity.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 11:42 AM by eroc.)
02-22-2020 11:41 AM
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
(02-20-2020 04:07 PM)Yawny Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 04:04 PM)dsquare Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 03:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  It really huts that there just aren't any shooters on this team outside of Jaevin (and Mika though he doesn't look for his shot enough). If you surrounded Vogt with shooting he'd be a lot more affective inside. Teams really pack it in which has hurt Jarron driving as well. They are there waiting to contest everything. We get so many open looks outside but just don't knock nearly enough down.

It's even worse because when we really need a shot to win a game, Jaevin doesn't look to be anywhere in sight as the preferred guy to get a look.

To be fair, he was right there and indeed made the shot to send us to 2OT last night.

Jaevin has often not seemed to play with confidence. He doesn't give the impression that he is believes in his heart he is the best SG on the court, desperate to get the ball in his hands so that he can shoot the net off the hoop.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 12:06 PM by Former Lurker.)
02-22-2020 11:57 AM
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kyucat Offline
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RE: Game Day Thread: UCF vs. Cincy
I am just getting around to commenting on the UCF loss.
By far the Bearcats had the worst defensive game in the last 10 years. I stop counting how many times UCF drove in the paint and scored. The defense opened up to the driver for layups. No wonder UCF was able to stay in the game.
If UC repeats that effort today against WSU they will lose by 10.
 
02-23-2020 11:44 AM
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