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New D1 transfer rule coming?
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #21
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-21-2020 07:40 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  
(02-21-2020 05:25 AM)17Huskies Wrote:  Also remember this would allow FCS stars (as we're calling them) to look at moving up to without penalty.

I thought they already do. FCS players can play immediately when transferring to FBS last I knew.

As Prender said, no, only if you move 'down' to FCS can you, which is actually another reason this could be good for the MAC/NIU, players that wanted to find a place to play after leaving a big ten or big 12 school were often looking to FCS or JC to make sure they got to play.

There have been some exceptions if they have a hardship or something else where they need to be closer to home.
02-21-2020 02:32 PM
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randyfensfanclub1 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-19-2020 03:43 PM)HuskieDave Wrote:  The B1G is the conference driving this proposal. They were the first conference to officially endorse this creation of essentially free agency for all.

The ACC has subsequently joined as the 2nd conference proponent.

Of course. Just look at Ohio State. Because for every undergrad, NFL bound qb they lose they don't want to have to always look towards a grad to replace them day 1. Utterly ridiculous. Screws the kid who starts at a school, does everything right as he waits his opportunity only to get screwed. Screws a school for recruiting a kid who does well at a G5 only to leave. What stops a Lynch type player in the future from transferring to ND after his Jr. yr? But they don't care. It's win today. This was they will always have a QB.

College tries and does look like pro game more and more each. As HS looks like college with sponsored kids going to FL, NV to form mega star teams as feeder programs for college. And again, biggest benefactor.....OSU with that school in FL.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2020 08:53 PM by randyfensfanclub1.)
02-21-2020 03:24 PM
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thehappyhuskie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-20-2020 04:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 02:28 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 11:59 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 10:03 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Yep. This will be very bad for the MAC.

Ironically, our MAC commish is one the biggest cheerleaders for this to be implemented...

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...-expansion

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Is Steinbrecher looking to move himself up?

You might have nailed it. Or he's sucking up to someone for another purpose.

He's a Judas Goat. Tho he misses the part where he's supposed to save his own and the conference's hide.
02-24-2020 12:33 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-21-2020 05:25 AM)17Huskies Wrote:  I get the concern, but I'm all for it at this point.
I used to oppose any movement towards this. But with the seemingly significant uptick in coach movement and the continued money making by everyone but the athletes that put their well-being at the risk, I'm all for it as it gives more power to the student athletes (SA).
The big money makers in college athletics love to speak about 'this all about the education' for the student athletes, then it shouldn't matter if they want to play somewhere else.
The only significant concerns in my mind is preventing MASS movement where close to an entire recruiting class would try to follow a coach right when he moves. I bet there's some easy ways to regulate that.

No, you don't get the point. This is just yet another move allowing the rich to get richer.
What uptick in coach movement? The only thing that has changed on the coaching front is that big money schools pull the trigger sooner when the results are not up to what they want. They have the money/alums to do buy-outs that have created more turnover. Take another sip of Evian which is naive spelled backwards.
Did you read the caveats? It starts with a transfer release from their previous school, how is that empowering the SA? How is "maintain their academic progress at new school" defined? For one semester/quarter? For two, so if they don't, do they get sent back to their original school or simply be ineligible at new school?
The idea that big money schools say "it's all about the SA" is a fallacy itself so don't use education as a case to replace recruiting. As Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Texas, etc. have players leave early for the NFL the replacement process is lure a gem or rising star from a lesser DI program instead of developing and underclassmen gained by good recruiting.
Your only concern is MASS movement but you "bet there's some easy way to regulate that"l Are you serious? Do you have any idea how thick the NCAA Regulations Manual has already become?
The P5s are all becoming the New York Yankees of college sports. If you have deeper pockets, i.e., more revenue, more mega-donors, more TV contracts, you have greater facilities, benefits to offer, so on and so on, you're that much more in position to win a pennant / conference or the world series / championship.
02-24-2020 01:04 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #25
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-24-2020 01:04 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(02-21-2020 05:25 AM)17Huskies Wrote:  I get the concern, but I'm all for it at this point.
I used to oppose any movement towards this. But with the seemingly significant uptick in coach movement and the continued money making by everyone but the athletes that put their well-being at the risk, I'm all for it as it gives more power to the student athletes (SA).
The big money makers in college athletics love to speak about 'this all about the education' for the student athletes, then it shouldn't matter if they want to play somewhere else.
The only significant concerns in my mind is preventing MASS movement where close to an entire recruiting class would try to follow a coach right when he moves. I bet there's some easy ways to regulate that.

No, you don't get the point. This is just yet another move allowing the rich to get richer.
What uptick in coach movement? The only thing that has changed on the coaching front is that big money schools pull the trigger sooner when the results are not up to what they want. They have the money/alums to do buy-outs that have created more turnover. Take another sip of Evian which is naive spelled backwards.
Did you read the caveats? It starts with a transfer release from their previous school, how is that empowering the SA? How is "maintain their academic progress at new school" defined? For one semester/quarter? For two, so if they don't, do they get sent back to their original school or simply be ineligible at new school?
The idea that big money schools say "it's all about the SA" is a fallacy itself so don't use education as a case to replace recruiting. As Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Texas, etc. have players leave early for the NFL the replacement process is lure a gem or rising star from a lesser DI program instead of developing and underclassmen gained by good recruiting.
Your only concern is MASS movement but you "bet there's some easy way to regulate that"l Are you serious? Do you have any idea how thick the NCAA Regulations Manual has already become?
The P5s are all becoming the New York Yankees of college sports. If you have deeper pockets, i.e., more revenue, more mega-donors, more TV contracts, you have greater facilities, benefits to offer, so on and so on, you're that much more in position to win a pennant / conference or the world series / championship.

Sorry I had a different opinion than you and tried to discuss...I guess I'm just dumber than you.
02-24-2020 03:04 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #26
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
To politely respond to some of the thoughts (aka, not be a jack@ss)...

'What uptick in coach movement? The only thing that has changed on the coaching front is that big money schools pull the trigger sooner when the results are not up to what they want.'
- Right, that's probably one of the main reasons. So I think you admit there may have been an uptick? Sounds like you're agreeing with that point.

'The idea that big money schools say "it's all about the SA" is a fallacy itself so don't use education as a case to replace recruiting. As Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Texas, etc. have players leave early for the NFL the replacement process is lure a gem or rising star from a lesser DI program instead of developing and underclassmen gained by good recruiting.'
- Once again, no argument here that this will happen, but it can also happen in a lot of other directions- former 4-star sitting on the bench, asked to come start. Star player at an FCS, asked to come here. And so on. I also didn't say the rich won't get richer, they will and they already are...doing this or not doing this isn't going to change it. I like that this gives some more power to the athletes while that's happening.

Pretty simple, doesn't mean the proposal is perfect.
02-24-2020 03:17 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
Was not calling you dumb, simply believe 17Huskies your outlook is far too generous in believing this rule can be worth it even from the trickle-down standpoint. The primary beneficiary of these changes will be the P5s and their gains will be at the expense of G5s. Maybe a G5 will get a benefit from an occasional FCS school, but it will hardly be on the same level or with the same frequency.
Programs like NIU have a Heisman Trophy candidate like LeShon Johnson or Jordan Lynch happen so rarely and under this proposal, there's no doubt P5s will poach them. But having a Heisman-type player move from FCS to G5 just doesn't happen.
Simply disagree with you that the SA gain any real power over their fate when the P5 programs provide themselves with yet another method to get richer.
02-24-2020 06:31 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #28
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-24-2020 06:31 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  Was not calling you dumb, simply believe 17Huskies your outlook is far too generous in believing this rule can be worth it even from the trickle-down standpoint. The primary beneficiary of these changes will be the P5s and their gains will be at the expense of G5s. Maybe a G5 will get a benefit from an occasional FCS school, but it will hardly be on the same level or with the same frequency.
Programs like NIU have a Heisman Trophy candidate like LeShon Johnson or Jordan Lynch happen so rarely and under this proposal, there's no doubt P5s will poach them. But having a Heisman-type player move from FCS to G5 just doesn't happen.
Simply disagree with you that the SA gain any real power over their fate when the P5 programs provide themselves with yet another method to get richer.

Except some guy named Kenny that made some pro bowl thing this year in the NFL? Decent player.

We also had an OK starting QB last year and going into this year.

Let's take Lynch for example, you're under the impression that a guy that had already been with the program for 4 years (by the time he had his breakout year), seemingly got along great with the coaches, and had an offense built around him, would have just upped and left for another spot in a totally new environment? Maybe, we'll never know, but it's not always that cut and dry. And if it truly is better (for the players experience, for their future, etc, etc), then all the more reason in my opinion that they should be allowed to move.

If this doesn't pass, guess what, there will just be something else. In my opinion, something like expanding scholarships allowed by 20 - 30 would be far detrimental.

I don't have to like the overall situation- big money schools getting to drive things- but it's the way things are, money is driving the sport. And unless someone/something is going to come in and limit the money and how it gets distributed (which ain't happening folks), there will continue to be changes and I think this is one I could live with and is still better for the student athlete.
02-25-2020 10:23 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #29
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
The P5 school should reimburse the G5's costs of
the transferring player's education, housing, etc
over 1-4 years that's been invested up to that point.
Otherwise it's stealing.
02-25-2020 11:04 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #30
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 10:23 AM)17Huskies Wrote:  
(02-24-2020 06:31 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  Was not calling you dumb, simply believe 17Huskies your outlook is far too generous in believing this rule can be worth it even from the trickle-down standpoint. The primary beneficiary of these changes will be the P5s and their gains will be at the expense of G5s. Maybe a G5 will get a benefit from an occasional FCS school, but it will hardly be on the same level or with the same frequency.
Programs like NIU have a Heisman Trophy candidate like LeShon Johnson or Jordan Lynch happen so rarely and under this proposal, there's no doubt P5s will poach them. But having a Heisman-type player move from FCS to G5 just doesn't happen.
Simply disagree with you that the SA gain any real power over their fate when the P5 programs provide themselves with yet another method to get richer.

Except some guy named Kenny that made some pro bowl thing this year in the NFL? Decent player.

We also had an OK starting QB last year and going into this year.

Let's take Lynch for example, you're under the impression that a guy that had already been with the program for 4 years (by the time he had his breakout year), seemingly got along great with the coaches, and had an offense built around him, would have just upped and left for another spot in a totally new environment? Maybe, we'll never know, but it's not always that cut and dry. And if it truly is better (for the players experience, for their future, etc, etc), then all the more reason in my opinion that they should be allowed to move.

If this doesn't pass, guess what, there will just be something else. In my opinion, something like expanding scholarships allowed by 20 - 30 would be far detrimental.

I don't have to like the overall situation- big money schools getting to drive things- but it's the way things are, money is driving the sport. And unless someone/something is going to come in and limit the money and how it gets distributed (which ain't happening folks), there will continue to be changes and I think this is one I could live with and is still better for the student athlete.

Lynch is probably a bad example since he was so system dependent. And its possible MAC superstars stay because they're already excelling and getting attention. For many QB's by the time they start and prove they're good they're almost out of eligibility. Not to mention they've been at a school 3 or 4 years and have strong bonds. But if someone is really good after their sophomore season and a P5 comes calling with a starting spot….kinda hard to turn down. Guys like Heflin, Steckler, and Smith.

Sometimes these things have the opposite effect of what common thought is. So maybe it will be good for G5s. But it just seems natural that guys excelling at G5 would want to go P5.
02-25-2020 12:38 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #31
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
Let me add what the biggest difference I see. Kids now reach out to schools to transfer under todays rules. I think coaches will reach out to kids now that they can fill spots immediately. Not blatantly of course. But I'm sure they have ways to get the word out that they're interested.
02-25-2020 12:45 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #32
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 11:04 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  The P5 school should reimburse the G5's costs of
the transferring player's education, housing, etc
over 1-4 years that's been invested up to that point.
Otherwise it's stealing.

When we say stealing, that makes it seem like a player is the school's property. Sounds kind of gross.
02-25-2020 02:27 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #33
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 12:45 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Let me add what the biggest difference I see. Kids now reach out to schools to transfer under todays rules. I think coaches will reach out to kids now that they can fill spots immediately. Not blatantly of course. But I'm sure they have ways to get the word out that they're interested.

I'm playing devil's advocate, but don't you think that's already happening today for the grad transfers? Especially for the good/star players that seem to be the concern, it's way too easy for that communication to happen. Heck, even with the year to sit-out rule, I bet it still happens today in some cases.

Assuming that everything is following process today is assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do their job well. :) It's a bad assumption.

That all being said, I get why many of you are against. I'm just on the side of giving the players as much freedom and power as possible.
02-25-2020 02:30 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #34
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-19-2020 04:45 PM)klake87 Wrote:  There will be movement up and down. Makes coaching tougher. The MAC will lose their superstars
Agreed. WMU lost their star freshman wr from last year to MSU, I recall.

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02-25-2020 02:51 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 02:30 PM)17Huskies Wrote:  I'm playing devil's advocate, but don't you think that's already happening today for the grad transfers? Especially for the good/star players that seem to be the concern, it's way too easy for that communication to happen. Heck, even with the year to sit-out rule, I bet it still happens today in some cases.
Assuming that everything is following process today is assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do their job well. :) It's a bad assumption.

Again, no disrespect intended to you. This move basically removes the sit-out rule, so if you believe it's happening now, it'll definitely be the case with that rule out of the way.
You say "assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do its job well"; that's the problem. The NCAA either doesn't do its job well enough or the P5s bend or change the rules to their benefit. Eventually they'll break away from the NCAA and establish their own organization or structure making certain the G5s, FCS, etc. can no longer keep up.
02-25-2020 03:46 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #36
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 03:46 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 02:30 PM)17Huskies Wrote:  I'm playing devil's advocate, but don't you think that's already happening today for the grad transfers? Especially for the good/star players that seem to be the concern, it's way too easy for that communication to happen. Heck, even with the year to sit-out rule, I bet it still happens today in some cases.
Assuming that everything is following process today is assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do their job well. :) It's a bad assumption.

Again, no disrespect intended to you. This move basically removes the sit-out rule, so if you believe it's happening now, it'll definitely be the case with that rule out of the way.
You say "assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do its job well"; that's the problem. The NCAA either doesn't do its job well enough or the P5s bend or change the rules to their benefit. Eventually they'll break away from the NCAA and establish their own organization or structure making certain the G5s, FCS, etc. can no longer keep up.

Right, nowhere did I say it wouldn't happen with this new rule, I'm saying that's not a good enough reason to not do it since it's already happening.

All of that is very possible, but I don't understand how striking down this new proposal is going to stop that. Do you? I'm truly curious.

It seems like people are more opposing this because it's just another 'sign of the times', which it is, but the big schools are going to continue to make cr@ptons of money whether they get some MAC and Sun Belt stars to transfer to them or not. That's not going to change that one bit. So I'm not sure why that's the discussion?

Yes, we as NIU fans, may have to go through some pain of a player leaving when he might not have in the current situation (although we could get some more players too).

I'm saying I'll take that if it means more freedom for the student athletes. I don't like the fact that certain conference commissioners are making millions, coaches are bouncing around for millions, the NCAA has people making millions, but the players which are a good bit of the product, and put their health at risk, are locked in to a decision they make when they are 16 - 18 yo.

One side note, a maybe better alternative all around would be for the XFL or any other league to actually be able to survive as a football minor league (similar to how the d-league and europe have inched to being slightly better for bball). I'd be more OK with the athletes being locked into a college if they had a somehow effective option for them to leave that if they wanted to pursue pro football where they can make an ok living (I'm guessing many of you would have similar concerns, but seems different to me).
02-25-2020 04:15 PM
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Post: #37
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-20-2020 10:38 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  IMO, this was proposed under the guise of being more "fair" to players, but what it really does is ...

--- Turn the G5 into a farm club level of football where the P5 "calls up" and "sends down" players at will.
--- Allow the P5 to get richer by cutting recruiting budgets; let the G5 do some of their work without compensation.
--- Alienate even more of the "forgotten" college fans who have ties to the 65 G5 schools. Many already do not bother to attend attention the "feel-good" bowl games that are tossed this way.

If this proposal is adopted, I would expect the next move to be an expansion in the number of FBS scholarships allowed. That way, all those upcoming individual player deals can be avoided. Generally, the P5 has the money; the G5 does not.

Any time a P5 school or conference proposes anything, you can bet there is an alterior motive. It is NOT for the benefit of college football or the student-athlete. And the fans do not matter at all.
Well thought out. This makes too much sense to be directionally wrong.

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02-25-2020 05:30 PM
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Post: #38
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
Just out of curiosity, has anyone thought about what this will do to basketball? I cannot imagine a rule allowing transfer with no one-year sit-out would apply only to football and not other sports. Think about a player like Eugene German, flirting with the NBA as he did, and then shopping/being shopped for/by a P5 team.

The P5 already has a lock on the big bucks, media, big bowls, CFP, etc., in FBS football, and the wide gap between it and the G5 is not closing any time soon, if ever. But the NCAA tournament is something the P5 really hasn't been able to crack in terms of putting down the competition. All conferences get an automatic bid, but look deeper at the shares of tournament $$. The NCAA tournament is the biggest money pot in college sports.

Also remember that a lot of the top teams -- Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. -- are known as "one-and-done" programs. Already, they just "reload" to fill those spots. But wouldn't this change make that a whole lot easier than gambling on a 17- or 18-year-old star high school player coming in (which they would still get anyway?
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2020 07:35 PM by pvk75.)
02-25-2020 07:33 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #39
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 02:30 PM)17Huskies Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 12:45 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Let me add what the biggest difference I see. Kids now reach out to schools to transfer under todays rules. I think coaches will reach out to kids now that they can fill spots immediately. Not blatantly of course. But I'm sure they have ways to get the word out that they're interested.

I'm playing devil's advocate, but don't you think that's already happening today for the grad transfers? Especially for the good/star players that seem to be the concern, it's way too easy for that communication to happen. Heck, even with the year to sit-out rule, I bet it still happens today in some cases.

Assuming that everything is following process today is assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do their job well. :) It's a bad assumption.

That all being said, I get why many of you are against. I'm just on the side of giving the players as much freedom and power as possible.

My concern is the kids who were never entertaining the thought of transferring may found out that a P5 is suddenly interested in them because they have a spot open. That P5 may not have had any interest in them with the sit-out rule because they may feel they can find that guy in the next recruit class. Kinda like pulling guys up from the practice squad in the NFL.

I like players having more control too. It just gets messed up with the manipulation the P5 has over fairness for all. It's like they want a mulligan on the players they missed initially.
02-25-2020 07:56 PM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #40
RE: New D1 transfer rule coming?
(02-25-2020 07:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 02:30 PM)17Huskies Wrote:  
(02-25-2020 12:45 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Let me add what the biggest difference I see. Kids now reach out to schools to transfer under todays rules. I think coaches will reach out to kids now that they can fill spots immediately. Not blatantly of course. But I'm sure they have ways to get the word out that they're interested.

I'm playing devil's advocate, but don't you think that's already happening today for the grad transfers? Especially for the good/star players that seem to be the concern, it's way too easy for that communication to happen. Heck, even with the year to sit-out rule, I bet it still happens today in some cases.

Assuming that everything is following process today is assuming the NCAA has any teeth and can actually do their job well. :) It's a bad assumption.

That all being said, I get why many of you are against. I'm just on the side of giving the players as much freedom and power as possible.

My concern is the kids who were never entertaining the thought of transferring may found out that a P5 is suddenly interested in them because they have a spot open. That P5 may not have had any interest in them with the sit-out rule because they may feel they can find that guy in the next recruit class. Kinda like pulling guys up from the practice squad in the NFL.

I like players having more control too. It just gets messed up with the manipulation the P5 has over fairness for all. It's like they want a mulligan on the players they missed initially.

Perhaps, but not very often does a true freshman show-up or even a RS freshman show up at NIU and clearly stands out to where the P5 would take notice, so you're most likely talking about upperclassmen that have shown something, and they many schools, even NIU in that case, would still be making a choice of 'do you take a guy for 1-2 seasons' who doesn't know your program and you're not sure how they'd fit in, versus 'bringing in a new freshman'. Similar to how JC transfers happen today. And in that same way, once players have been there for 2-3 seasons, they either are comfortable with the school/coach/etc. and they're probably not going to leave just because a P5 school tries, or they're not, and if they're not, I think it's fair for them to go elsewhere. We probably won't know how it'd work out until implemented.

The point someone made on basketball is a good one. I see that potentially being a much bigger issue (in my mind, still maybe the right decision to be made, but more difficult).

I don't think plug and play works as well in football, especially not college football.
02-26-2020 03:06 AM
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