(02-21-2020 09:15 AM)cmt Wrote:  Great Idea. We could use the old Bus station...
wait...

Or we could use the area just east of there?...

Come downtown sometime, maybe take in a Tiger game at the Pyramid...I mean Forum.

right.. is some much going on Downtown and so much construction.. things are happening in Memphis


but then you have the people that do nothing but sit back and complain.

(02-19-2020 10:24 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  it looks great, but Texas Live is next to the Rangers' Stadium, like Ballpark Village is next to Busch Stadium in St. Louis. There needs to be a major event center involved that draws millions of people a year to the immediate area. Phase 1 needs to be the full development of the planned youth sports complex. If it is successful and the demand is there to then support a Phase 2 like a Texas Live, then build away - hotels, restaurants and retail will line up to be a part of it.

Agree ... I think this should be somewhere between Autozone Park and FedEx forum ... That way you draw from Redbird games, 901FC, and even Grizzlies or Tiger games ... I just don't see this concept working at the Fairgrounds project ...

(02-21-2020 02:41 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 01:24 AM)CRM114 Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:15 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Texas Live is anchored by the Rangers. So you have fans there 81 times a year just going to those games. And most of those are in good weather.

Compare that to 8 games at the Libertybowl. Many in cooler weather.

Very little reason for folks to drive into midtown to take part in non-football events.

Something like this might work better at the old bus station across from Autozone park. That way you have both the Redbirds and 901 FC games to draw people to the attractions.

That is if 901 FC is long term.

Remember that the Redbirds battled Sacramento for attendance leader in AAA soon after they moved to Autozone Park. Now they are seeing very poorly attended games mid-week.

And even with the newness factor the 901 FC attendance was less than the Rouges attendance, and the Rogues did not have 40 years of youth soccer and a large Latin American immigrant population to draw from.

Wow, you’re just a bundle of civic optimism. Writing off the Fairgrounds development, midtown, baseball team and soccer team in one post. Does not sound like you make it out of Horn Lake very often if you think nobody goes to midtown except for football games. Also there’s a new seven story hotel now standing on the old bus station site.

In comparing 901FC attendance to that of a 1978-80 NASL team, you are forgetting that Memphis has a far more active sports and entertainment scene now. In the Rouges’ day there was no NBA team here, no casinos, and unless you were one of the relatively few people who had cable or a VCR at that time, you only had channels 3, 5, 10, 13 and 24 to watch on your TV. Even then, attendance for the Rogues, who were in that era’s equivalent of MLS, barely outdrew 901FC which plays in a secondary league.

You ignore the part where the Rogues came into a virgin territory where the only soccer anyone saw was Soccer Made in Germany on Channel 10.

Since that time there have been youth programs started where the kids in those original programs are now grandparents of kids in youth soccer programs.

Demographics have changed and we have adult leagues and a large immigration influx from countries where soccer is king.

Most who attended the Rogues game were kids and young adults who enjoyed the low-cost beer at the games.

As far as the other stuff goes it is a pattern that has never failed over the past 40 years. Anytime there is something new people flock to it until the newness wears out and then they move on to the next thing. Redbird attendance is less than half of what it was just 14 years ago. The team had to be purchased by St Louis to keep it in town.

Stick to Byhalia where you actually might be aware of what's going on.

(02-21-2020 12:06 PM)DDrum1961 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:24 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  it looks great, but Texas Live is next to the Rangers' Stadium, like Ballpark Village is next to Busch Stadium in St. Louis. There needs to be a major event center involved that draws millions of people a year to the immediate area. Phase 1 needs to be the full development of the planned youth sports complex. If it is successful and the demand is there to then support a Phase 2 like a Texas Live, then build away - hotels, restaurants and retail will line up to be a part of it.

Agree ... I think this should be somewhere between Autozone Park and FedEx forum ... That way you draw from Redbird games, 901FC, and even Grizzlies or Tiger games ... I just don't see this concept working at the Fairgrounds project ...

I don't either, honestly. The only way that it works is if it is less bar oriented than Texas Live (still serving, of course) and more kid-friendly, a'la Railgarten, Loflin Yard, places like that. Not that we didn't have kids at Texas Live, but it's definitely a place that wasn't built with them in mind.

The main Fairgrounds plan surrounds youth sports, so if you go this route, it needs to be less "entertainment district" and have options for the families to go to and hang out, grab food, & let the parents have a few beers & relax.

Our son's soccer team played in a tournament in St. Louis last year, and we stayed right at Westport Plaza. They had things like a pizza place, taco shop, starbucks, smoothie king, etc., but then on top of that they also had a sushi restaurant, steakhouse, and an indoor gaming lounge with food, drinks, and indoor games like ping-pong, shuffleboard, pop a shot, indoor bocce, karaoke on 2nd floor, lounge areas & tons of screens to watch games. Places like that would work for the youth events, and be a big hit after FB games, IMO.

https://westportsocial-stl.com/

It has a better chance now than years ago. The rebirth of Overton Square as been a pleasant surprise. Mid-town is enough of an anchor to give it a chance. The whole Union Ave corridor is looking very good.

I avoided this thread

Then finally bit

Indeed, it only took to the fifth post before the asinine anti Memphis bull**** came out, and yes, much of that is race based

Attacking the messenger instead of improving themselves sure to come soon

(02-21-2020 06:41 PM)Mimi Wrote:  I avoided this thread

Then finally bit

Indeed, it only took to the fifth post before the asinine anti Memphis bull**** came out, and yes, much of that is race based

Attacking the messenger instead of improving themselves sure to come soon

And still you had nothing to say.

(02-21-2020 02:41 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  You ignore the part where the Rogues came into a virgin territory where the only soccer anyone saw was Soccer Made in Germany on Channel 10.

Since that time there have been youth programs started where the kids in those original programs are now grandparents of kids in youth soccer programs.

Demographics have changed and we have adult leagues and a large immigration influx from countries where soccer is king.

Most who attended the Rogues game were kids and young adults who enjoyed the low-cost beer at the games.

As far as the other stuff goes it is a pattern that has never failed over the past 40 years. Anytime there is something new people flock to it until the newness wears out and then they move on to the next thing. Redbird attendance is less than half of what it was just 14 years ago. The team had to be purchased by St Louis to keep it in town.

Memphis was not exactly virgin territory for soccer in 1978. I was a little kid then but already knew what soccer was and had watched an older friend play in a youth league game a year or two earlier. Then I played in leagues during the seasons the Rouges and Americans (MISL) were here. But I agree that demographics, participation and general awareness of the sport provide far more of a market for it now than 40 years ago - which just undermines your own argument that 901FC is a short-term affair! Seems like you aren’t giving them enough time to develop their fan base.

The Grizzlies certainly failed your 40 year pattern. People did not flock to them in the first couple of years. Attendance has risen and fallen with the team’s on-court performance, level of connection with the players and so forth.

(02-20-2020 08:15 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:38 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:27 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  If done right, that would be incredible!

Yes it would. If it is half as nice as Taxas Live area it would’ve awesome!

Texas Live is anchored by the Rangers. So you have fans there 81 times a year just going to those games. And most of those are in good weather.

Compare that to 8 games at the Libertybowl. Many in cooler weather.

Very little reason for folks to drive into midtown to take part in non-football events.

Something like this might work better at the old bus station across from Autozone park. That way you have both the Redbirds and 901 FC games to draw people to the attractions.

That is if 901 FC is long term.

Remember that the Redbirds battled Sacramento for attendance leader in AAA soon after they moved to Autozone Park. Now they are seeing very poorly attended games mid-week.

And even with the newness factor the 901 FC attendance was less than the Rouges attendance, and the Rogues did not have 40 years of youth soccer and a large Latin American immigrant population to draw from.

As others have pointed out, your reasoning and suggestions are totally wrong. Have you ever been to Cooper Young? Overton Square? Both are very crowded most nights of the week. The bus station local you mentioned currently has a hotel located on it, how could you not know that. While I hate losing the parking for the Tiger games, a properly planned and managed complex would be ideal for the fairgrounds. I hate the idea of local government being more involved. They dropped the ball on the restaurant in Tom Lee Park, lets hope it doesn't happen again.

(02-21-2020 07:01 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 06:41 PM)Mimi Wrote:  I avoided this thread

Then finally bit

Indeed, it only took to the fifth post before the asinine anti Memphis bull**** came out, and yes, much of that is race based

Attacking the messenger instead of improving themselves sure to come soon

And still you had nothing to say.

+3

(02-20-2020 08:19 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 08:15 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:38 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 02:27 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  If done right, that would be incredible!

Yes it would. If it is half as nice as Taxas Live area it would’ve awesome!

Very little reason for folks to drive into midtown to take part in non-football events.

LOL what?!?

Yeah, Overton Square, Cooper Young, and Broad are struggling... Rofl

(02-21-2020 11:41 AM)tigersgrizzfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 09:15 AM)cmt Wrote:  Great Idea. We could use the old Bus station...
wait...

Or we could use the area just east of there?...

Come downtown sometime, maybe take in a Tiger game at the Pyramid...I mean Forum.

right.. is some much going on Downtown and so much construction.. things are happening in Memphis


but then you have the people that do nothing but sit back and complain.

The complainers tend to also be the NIMBYers. Many folks want to preserve the things they complain about, because they derive status from complaining and negative judgments.

There seem to be around 3 separate billion dollar developments either planned or in progress for downtown. And that doesn't include projects between 100 mill and 1 billion, both downtown and in the metro area (ie Lake District and the Silo in Mississippi)

(02-21-2020 06:15 PM)dcg141 Wrote:  It has a better chance now than years ago. The rebirth of Overton Square as been a pleasant surprise. Mid-town is enough of an anchor to give it a chance. The whole Union Ave corridor is looking very good.

I don't know about Union, that is untapped, under realized potential there. But I think the new hotel (Memphian?) in Overton Square, while incredibly inconvenient for me (I exclusively used that lot), will be pivotal for midtown. It will indicate a lot.

Union needs to be more of a showcase promenade. And by showcase, I mean not only imposing landscaped medians and beautification, but creating a dense, urban, walkable development policy extinguishing Union-adjacent parking and widening sidewalks. I think we can create an visual experience for visitors and locals who travel that street, if we share that desire. I would even add some public art monuments along the avenue, and a plaza near, or some special road pavers where, Union crosses in front of the former Baptist hospital.

(02-21-2020 01:01 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 12:06 PM)DDrum1961 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:24 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  it looks great, but Texas Live is next to the Rangers' Stadium, like Ballpark Village is next to Busch Stadium in St. Louis. There needs to be a major event center involved that draws millions of people a year to the immediate area. Phase 1 needs to be the full development of the planned youth sports complex. If it is successful and the demand is there to then support a Phase 2 like a Texas Live, then build away - hotels, restaurants and retail will line up to be a part of it.

Agree ... I think this should be somewhere between Autozone Park and FedEx forum ... That way you draw from Redbird games, 901FC, and even Grizzlies or Tiger games ... I just don't see this concept working at the Fairgrounds project ...

I don't either, honestly. The only way that it works is if it is less bar oriented than Texas Live (still serving, of course) and more kid-friendly, a'la Railgarten, Loflin Yard, places like that. Not that we didn't have kids at Texas Live, but it's definitely a place that wasn't built with them in mind.

The main Fairgrounds plan surrounds youth sports, so if you go this route, it needs to be less "entertainment district" and have options for the families to go to and hang out, grab food, & let the parents have a few beers & relax.

Our son's soccer team played in a tournament in St. Louis last year, and we stayed right at Westport Plaza. They had things like a pizza place, taco shop, starbucks, smoothie king, etc., but then on top of that they also had a sushi restaurant, steakhouse, and an indoor gaming lounge with food, drinks, and indoor games like ping-pong, shuffleboard, pop a shot, indoor bocce, karaoke on 2nd floor, lounge areas & tons of screens to watch games. Places like that would work for the youth events, and be a big hit after FB games, IMO.

https://westportsocial-stl.com/

I like a kid village or kid centric area. I was dreaming one could come up around St Jude. If that is not possible with the new Intrator development, then maybe around the Fairgrounds.

There is a lot for kids to do in the metro Memphis area. Autobahn, Main Event, the pizza place on Grown Pkwy, trampoline gyms, and more. But they aren't really consolidated.

I don't know if they can focus on a theme. It seems Overton Square kind of has, focusing more than 50% on restaurants, not stores. If they can guide the tenants towards kid friendly, maybe more than x% kid oriented, businesses, then the youth fields and hotels could work together, along with the existing Kroc, and maybe build each other up.

And, it would complement, not compete with, Overton Square, and enhance Cooper Young.

(02-22-2020 05:08 PM)kabluey Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 01:01 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-21-2020 12:06 PM)DDrum1961 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 10:24 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  it looks great, but Texas Live is next to the Rangers' Stadium, like Ballpark Village is next to Busch Stadium in St. Louis. There needs to be a major event center involved that draws millions of people a year to the immediate area. Phase 1 needs to be the full development of the planned youth sports complex. If it is successful and the demand is there to then support a Phase 2 like a Texas Live, then build away - hotels, restaurants and retail will line up to be a part of it.

Agree ... I think this should be somewhere between Autozone Park and FedEx forum ... That way you draw from Redbird games, 901FC, and even Grizzlies or Tiger games ... I just don't see this concept working at the Fairgrounds project ...

I don't either, honestly. The only way that it works is if it is less bar oriented than Texas Live (still serving, of course) and more kid-friendly, a'la Railgarten, Loflin Yard, places like that. Not that we didn't have kids at Texas Live, but it's definitely a place that wasn't built with them in mind.

The main Fairgrounds plan surrounds youth sports, so if you go this route, it needs to be less "entertainment district" and have options for the families to go to and hang out, grab food, & let the parents have a few beers & relax.

Our son's soccer team played in a tournament in St. Louis last year, and we stayed right at Westport Plaza. They had things like a pizza place, taco shop, starbucks, smoothie king, etc., but then on top of that they also had a sushi restaurant, steakhouse, and an indoor gaming lounge with food, drinks, and indoor games like ping-pong, shuffleboard, pop a shot, indoor bocce, karaoke on 2nd floor, lounge areas & tons of screens to watch games. Places like that would work for the youth events, and be a big hit after FB games, IMO.

https://westportsocial-stl.com/

I like a kid village or kid centric area. I was dreaming one could come up around St Jude. If that is not possible with the new Intrator development, then maybe around the Fairgrounds.

There is a lot for kids to do in the metro Memphis area. Autobahn, Main Event, the pizza place on Grown Pkwy, trampoline gyms, and more. But they aren't really consolidated.

I don't know if they can focus on a theme. It seems Overton Square kind of has, focusing more than 50% on restaurants, not stores. If they can guide the tenants towards kid friendly, maybe more than x% kid oriented, businesses, then the youth fields and hotels could work together, along with the existing Kroc, and maybe build each other up.

And, it would complement, not compete with, Overton Square, and enhance Cooper Young.

Agreed. = Like you said, find the right balance that allows for kids to hang/play, but still attract adults to hang out/eat/drink, and you've got a winner. Straight-up kid stuff like trampoline parks and the like won't get it - stuff like bowling, barcades, etc. mixed with a little sports-related retail and restaurants (Mike Miller - open a midtown Let It Fly location) will be what works.

The Liberty Bowl is lucky to the Children's Museum, Cooper-Young, Railgarten, CBU, and the Kroc Center around it. As someone else said a chain hotel at the Fairgrounds along with a boutique hotel at Overton Square would really add to midtown/38104 IMHO.

I miss midtown but I was kinda surprised when I moved to Bartlett because if I head one way youve got Golf and Games/Putt-Putt plus the ole Summer Drive-in...and if you head the other way you've got Main Event. More stuff to do than I thought there would be out this way.

(02-23-2020 04:53 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is lucky to the Children's Museum, Cooper-Young, Railgarten, CBU, and the Kroc Center around it. As someone else said a chain hotel at the Fairgrounds along with a boutique hotel at Overton Square would really add to midtown/38104 IMHO.

I miss midtown but I was kinda surprised when I moved to Bartlett because if I head one way youve got Golf and Games/Putt-Putt plus the ole Summer Drive-in...and if you head the other way you've got Main Event. More stuff to do than I thought there would be out this way.

There's a good business cluster over there, from Stage to Goodlett Farms to Sycamore View. I'd like to see a Domain-type development to introduce walkable neighborhoods up there.

(02-23-2020 07:39 PM)kabluey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 04:53 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is lucky to the Children's Museum, Cooper-Young, Railgarten, CBU, and the Kroc Center around it. As someone else said a chain hotel at the Fairgrounds along with a boutique hotel at Overton Square would really add to midtown/38104 IMHO.

I miss midtown but I was kinda surprised when I moved to Bartlett because if I head one way youve got Golf and Games/Putt-Putt plus the ole Summer Drive-in...and if you head the other way you've got Main Event. More stuff to do than I thought there would be out this way.

There's a good business cluster over there, from Stage to Goodlett Farms to Sycamore View. I'd like to see a Domain-type development to introduce walkable neighborhoods up there.

when I visited family in the Tampa area I thought something like this featuring topgolf would fit in nicely there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northp...82.5417804

put it at the large piece of land at appling city/appling farms intersection.

(02-23-2020 07:47 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 07:39 PM)kabluey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 04:53 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is lucky to the Children's Museum, Cooper-Young, Railgarten, CBU, and the Kroc Center around it. As someone else said a chain hotel at the Fairgrounds along with a boutique hotel at Overton Square would really add to midtown/38104 IMHO.

I miss midtown but I was kinda surprised when I moved to Bartlett because if I head one way youve got Golf and Games/Putt-Putt plus the ole Summer Drive-in...and if you head the other way you've got Main Event. More stuff to do than I thought there would be out this way.

There's a good business cluster over there, from Stage to Goodlett Farms to Sycamore View. I'd like to see a Domain-type development to introduce walkable neighborhoods up there.

when I visited family in the Tampa area I thought something like this featuring topgolf would fit in nicely there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northp...82.5417804

put it at the large piece of land at appling city/appling farms intersection.

I think that would be an excellent location for a Top Golf, but don't they normally want a more pleasant visual for their locales, i.e., downtown areas, etc?

(02-24-2020 11:01 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 07:47 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 07:39 PM)kabluey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 04:53 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  The Liberty Bowl is lucky to the Children's Museum, Cooper-Young, Railgarten, CBU, and the Kroc Center around it. As someone else said a chain hotel at the Fairgrounds along with a boutique hotel at Overton Square would really add to midtown/38104 IMHO.

I miss midtown but I was kinda surprised when I moved to Bartlett because if I head one way youve got Golf and Games/Putt-Putt plus the ole Summer Drive-in...and if you head the other way you've got Main Event. More stuff to do than I thought there would be out this way.

There's a good business cluster over there, from Stage to Goodlett Farms to Sycamore View. I'd like to see a Domain-type development to introduce walkable neighborhoods up there.

when I visited family in the Tampa area I thought something like this featuring topgolf would fit in nicely there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northp...82.5417804

put it at the large piece of land at appling city/appling farms intersection.

I think that would be an excellent location for a Top Golf, but don't they normally want a more pleasant visual for their locales, i.e., downtown areas, etc?

in theory you would have Main Event all lit in neon with the Carvana tower next to it and the giant IKEA looming behind it all lol.