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I went to the game last night with my brother. We talk a lot about the team and games. 1st he brought up about Jarron talking to the refs. Watched him and it seems he turns to them after all the drives and is telling them AND 1 and they are not liking it and not calling it and calling fouls against him. He needs to stop doing that. Second Jarron needs to talk to Scott and tell him When I am off the court Scott is the number one person on the court and he needs to take over games not pass up shots. When Jarron got in foul trouble early and had to sit Scott looked lost out there and was passing up shots and we had like 3 or 4 shot clock violations. He is a RS Senior time to take over and be the top dog when Jarron is on the bench.

(02-14-2020 08:58 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I went to the game last night with my brother. We talk a lot about the team and games. 1st he brought up about Jarron talking to the refs. Watched him and it seems he turns to them after all the drives and is telling them AND 1 and they are not liking it and not calling it and calling fouls against him. He needs to stop doing that. Second Jarron needs to talk to Scott and tell him When I am off the court Scott is the number one person on the court and he needs to take over games not pass up shots. When Jarron got in foul trouble early and had to sit Scott looked lost out there and was passing up shots and we had like 3 or 4 shot clock violations. He is a RS Senior time to take over and be the top dog when Jarron is on the bench.

He's the CPOY and he gets so little respect from the refs it's laughable. if you want him to calm down, that may be fair but someone like Brannen has to defend him because he's getting nothing from the refs. And if we're being honest, he should be getting 1.5x the calls he's actually getting.

(02-14-2020 09:37 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 08:58 PM)Nobones Wrote:  I went to the game last night with my brother. We talk a lot about the team and games. 1st he brought up about Jarron talking to the refs. Watched him and it seems he turns to them after all the drives and is telling them AND 1 and they are not liking it and not calling it and calling fouls against him. He needs to stop doing that. Second Jarron needs to talk to Scott and tell him When I am off the court Scott is the number one person on the court and he needs to take over games not pass up shots. When Jarron got in foul trouble early and had to sit Scott looked lost out there and was passing up shots and we had like 3 or 4 shot clock violations. He is a RS Senior time to take over and be the top dog when Jarron is on the bench.

He's the CPOY and he gets so little respect from the refs it's laughable. if you want him to calm down, that may be fair but someone like Brannen has to defend him because he's getting nothing from the refs. And if we're being honest, he should be getting 1.5x the calls he's actually getting.

Yea, I agree with this. Hard not to say anything when night in and night out you are drawing contact and not getting a call that you know others are despite being the CPOY. Has to be super frustrating for him, cause it is for me and I’m just watching lol.

(02-14-2020 04:01 PM)dsquare Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 02:43 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 01:52 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 01:48 PM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 01:42 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  Yep, he hasn't been as efficient recently, but it is pretty obvious he is drawing a lot more of the attention of opposing defenses. Which I think is big part of Scott's recent offensive success.

brannen frequently talks about how the attention Jarron and Vogt receive allows Scott to do what he's been doing.

Scott's rise the past 10 games have come because Vogt sees so many doubles now. Could Vogt do better vs the doubles and cut down on the turnovers? Of course, but just the fact that he has to be doubled opens up so much.

It will be interesting to see if Scott's recent play will force teams to quit doubling Vogt.

Doubtful. They are doing what they are doing because they are playing the percentages. Even with the Scott's increased production that is still a better gamble than one on one with vogt

It's not really a question of if they will stop or not, as they will not. It's really a question of if they have to personnel to make it work. Memphis has that kind of size, some of the teams we face do not which is why his numbers are really solid. Tre's obviously caught on that he has to exploit that. Hopefully he continues to play with that urgency. Could he pull them out of that, maybe. 25 pts a night will do it, but it remains to be seen if he can do that. This EC game on the road will be interesting as we typically struggle there. Vogt got in foul trouble game 1, but Tre was solid at 16/11. It will be a much smaller lineup than Memphis and Uconn. If Vogt can avoid foul trouble this is a game he can score inside.

Just my opinion but i don't think so for the reason you've alluded to. My guess is that they've all done the math and they are willing to gamble that this is an anomaly and Tre will regress to the proverbial mean. They'll likely keep doubling Vogt for a couple of reasons. 1) it keeps Cincy's best rebounder (Tre) out of rebounding position. While Vogt is solid and takes up space, he's less effective against athletic bigs who can use their foot speed and athleticism to get Vogt off his spot. When Tre has the ball on the perimeter, he's less helpful to us. 2) the are banking on Tre not being able to keep up this scoring pace; and 3) Vogt is a really poor passer out of the post when he gets doubled. i don't know if it's panic or inexperience but when he gets a hard double he seems really indecisive. Honestly, he's trying to make a pass that leads to a score where he should be making the safer play since his passing is not his strong suit but if i'm an opposing coach i hard double every time Vogt gets a post touch because more often than not he's not going to hurt you and may actually help you.

(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)cincybb51 Wrote:  Barring injuries and defections(hard to predict in college sports now) I am very optimistic for the start of next year. We will have three returning starters in Williams, Vogt and Mika. All should be improved and have the experience of playing together. Hoping we play a few more buy type home games than we had this season to start to integrate our young freshman and returning sophomores; this season was rough at OSU and XU with an injured Jarron (only out of conference road game I know of now is at Tennessee). Saunders speed at point probably off the bench will add an interesting dimension for us; playing at a top level of high school competition should help him contribute early. Will miss Jaevin as a three point threat but with the Madsen brothers and improvement from Adams-Woods, Harvey and Davenport we might be better in the three point department.

Really think we will have an improved record in non-conference play next year.. Then the big question will be if we can overcome the loss of the toughness and "game on the line performers" Jarron and Tre in conference play.

This might be excessively harsh on Keith but he needs to pull his head out of his arse and soon. He definitely gets some ticky tack calls but some of them are legit fouls that are representative of low bball IQ. Keith and Vogt are going to be expected to lead next season. Hard to do that when you're on the bench with two early fouls.

i think the only silver lining is that Davenport and Harvey are getting some real minutes.

Jarron CPOY or not, a foul is a foul. i don’t expect him to get the whistle just bc of “respect” bc he was CPOY last year. That’s dumb. If the other team had the CPOY I wouldn’t want the refs cowtowing and calling fouls just cuz.

On the otherhand, Jarron has gotten the shaft on several calls this year I think were legit fouls- one being the Houston game where he was literally body bumped by two guys and nothing.

He does get his fair share of the calls at times tho, he’s shot more ft’s than anyone else in the conference.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect especially the refs. Truth be told- he probably should have fouled out last night-couple of those late game blocking fouls coulda gone either way. But given how ****** they called the game in general, I’m glad he didn’t.

(02-14-2020 11:56 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  Jarron CPOY or not, a foul is a foul. i don’t expect him to get the whistle just bc of “respect” bc he was CPOY last year. That’s dumb. If the other team had the CPOY I wouldn’t want the refs cowtowing and calling fouls just cuz.

On the otherhand, Jarron has gotten the shaft on several calls this year I think were legit fouls- one being the Houston game where he was literally body bumped by two guys and nothing.

He does get his fair share of the calls at times tho, he’s shot more ft’s than anyone else in the conference.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect especially the refs. Truth be told- he probably should have fouled out last night-couple of those late game blocking fouls coulda gone either way. But given how ****** they called the game in general, I’m glad he didn’t.

And yet it happens...regardless of your thoughts on the matter. it's more egregious at the NBA level but if you don't think that NBA prospects aren't protected i have a bridge to sell you. it isn't always about getting the whistle. Sometimes it's about no-calls and keeping a player out of foul trouble. There's a reason why strength don't defend strength in game. That's why Tre didn't defend Precious for most of the game last night even though he was the best defender against Precious. He's the pro prospect and Tre is not but Tre was the only one getting buckets for us so we couldn't afford to have Tre get in foul trouble.

The refs are spectacularly awful. They’re not biased, they’re just incompetent.

I am curious to see a healthy Jarron with non American referees in the tournament.

(02-15-2020 08:48 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  The refs are spectacularly awful. They’re not biased, they’re just incompetent.

This. They were bad all around.

Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

(02-15-2020 09:56 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

Brannen had some really good insight on that specific segment:

Quote:There are no plays you can draw up against the box-and-one, so there was no way I was calling a timeout,” Brannen said. “If I would have called a timeout, they would have been happy I called a timeout, because they would have been able to set the defense again. We had the defense scrambling so I let them make plays.

(02-14-2020 11:56 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  Jarron CPOY or not, a foul is a foul. i don’t expect him to get the whistle just bc of “respect” bc he was CPOY last year. That’s dumb. If the other team had the CPOY I wouldn’t want the refs cowtowing and calling fouls just cuz.

On the otherhand, Jarron has gotten the shaft on several calls this year I think were legit fouls- one being the Houston game where he was literally body bumped by two guys and nothing.

He does get his fair share of the calls at times tho, he’s shot more ft’s than anyone else in the conference.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect especially the refs. Truth be told- he probably should have fouled out last night-couple of those late game blocking fouls coulda gone either way. But given how ****** they called the game in general, I’m glad he didn’t.

For those that have been around for a while it's a very similar thing to Fortson's final junior year. He couldn't get a contact foul to save his life and had one or two guys hammering or hanging all over him on every shot. Huggins said he should go to the Nba as he's better off. The tougher thing for JC is he's got more athletic guards on him who are a lot better at selling contact as charges. Fortson's defenders were typically big kids who didn't fall or try to flop whereas JC's defenders are almost acting in a women's gymnastics competition for perfect landings. That hot dog the other night was working to sell that first flop long before the ball was tossed up. He's a clown. I hope his tight shorts split right down the middle at an opportune time.

(02-15-2020 10:09 AM)dsquare Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:56 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  Jarron CPOY or not, a foul is a foul. i don’t expect him to get the whistle just bc of “respect” bc he was CPOY last year. That’s dumb. If the other team had the CPOY I wouldn’t want the refs cowtowing and calling fouls just cuz.

On the otherhand, Jarron has gotten the shaft on several calls this year I think were legit fouls- one being the Houston game where he was literally body bumped by two guys and nothing.

He does get his fair share of the calls at times tho, he’s shot more ft’s than anyone else in the conference.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect especially the refs. Truth be told- he probably should have fouled out last night-couple of those late game blocking fouls coulda gone either way. But given how ****** they called the game in general, I’m glad he didn’t.

For those that have been around for a while it's a very similar thing to Fortson's final junior year. He couldn't get a contact foul to save his life and had one or two guys hammering or hanging all over him on every shot. Huggins said he should go to the Nba as he's better off. The tougher thing for JC is he's got more athletic guards on him who are a lot better at selling contact as charges. Fortson's defenders were typically big kids who didn't fall or try to flop whereas JC's defenders are almost acting in a women's gymnastics competition for perfect landings. That hot dog the other night was working to sell that first flop long before the ball was tossed up. He's a clown. I hope his tight shorts split right down the middle at an opportune time.

IMO, this is a big problem throughout the college game. The NCAA claims they want more scoring, and then they prevent any penetration to the basket by calling charges on damn near every drive to the basket. I really think the refs just like calling charges.

(02-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 09:56 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

Brannen had some really good insight on that specific segment:

Quote:There are no plays you can draw up against the box-and-one, so there was no way I was calling a timeout,” Brannen said. “If I would have called a timeout, they would have been happy I called a timeout, because they would have been able to set the defense again. We had the defense scrambling so I let them make plays.

Sorry, aint buying it. We were extremely lucky not to turn the ball over there. He's covering.

I have never subscribed to any player getting treated differently. A foul should be a foul no matter on or by an All American or a walk on. A foul should be a foul in the first or last minute.

There are a lot of refs with bad skills and bad attitudes (TV Teddy).

(02-15-2020 10:50 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 09:56 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

Brannen had some really good insight on that specific segment:

Quote:There are no plays you can draw up against the box-and-one, so there was no way I was calling a timeout,” Brannen said. “If I would have called a timeout, they would have been happy I called a timeout, because they would have been able to set the defense again. We had the defense scrambling so I let them make plays.

Sorry, aint buying it. We were extremely lucky not to turn the ball over there. He's covering.

I buy it. A Timeout would have likely meant an inbounds pass into the backcourt, a rush to bring the ball up and then time for a pass to one player before a shot. And it would not have been Cumberland because of the defense.

Bobby Knight used to say he never called timeouts at the end of games. If his players didn't know what to do, then he had already failed as a coach.

(02-15-2020 10:56 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:50 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 09:56 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

Brannen had some really good insight on that specific segment:

Quote:There are no plays you can draw up against the box-and-one, so there was no way I was calling a timeout,” Brannen said. “If I would have called a timeout, they would have been happy I called a timeout, because they would have been able to set the defense again. We had the defense scrambling so I let them make plays.

Sorry, aint buying it. We were extremely lucky not to turn the ball over there. He's covering.

I buy it. A Timeout would have likely meant an inbounds pass into the backcourt, a rush to bring the ball up and then time for a pass to one player before a shot. And it would not have been Cumberland because of the defense.

Bobby Knight used to say he never called timeouts at the end of games. If his players didn't know what to do, then he had already failed as a coach.

Na, there was plenty of time left. I think something like 10 secs left still when Tre went to line. I'm ok not calling timeout to the start of sequence, but after your team is in disarray for 10 secs almost turning the ball over a couple of times you got to take control and get a timeout to settle it down and ensure no turnover. Not sure how to access the replay, but it was pretty obvious this needed to happen, surprised by the comments here.

(02-15-2020 11:39 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:56 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:50 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 10:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 09:56 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  Brannen has to do a better job at late game management. We were in disarray down two for around 10 secs of the final possession before Tre got fouled. Even my son was yelling call TO and Brannen looked like a fan watching the game instead of taking charge there. I'm happy with the guy overall, but this late game mgmt seems a weakness so far.

Brannen had some really good insight on that specific segment:

Quote:There are no plays you can draw up against the box-and-one, so there was no way I was calling a timeout,” Brannen said. “If I would have called a timeout, they would have been happy I called a timeout, because they would have been able to set the defense again. We had the defense scrambling so I let them make plays.

Sorry, aint buying it. We were extremely lucky not to turn the ball over there. He's covering.

I buy it. A Timeout would have likely meant an inbounds pass into the backcourt, a rush to bring the ball up and then time for a pass to one player before a shot. And it would not have been Cumberland because of the defense.

Bobby Knight used to say he never called timeouts at the end of games. If his players didn't know what to do, then he had already failed as a coach.

Na, there was plenty of time left. I think something like 10 secs left still when Tre went to line. I'm ok not calling timeout to the start of sequence, but after your team is in disarray for 10 secs almost turning the ball over a couple of times you got to take control and get a timeout to settle it down and ensure no turnover. Not sure how to access the replay, but it was pretty obvious this needed to happen, surprised by the comments here.

1. Can't ensure that turn over doesn't happen no matter how good a coach you are

2. There are plenty of advantages to not calling time out including not allowing the defense to get set. You also don't allow the opposition to sub. If it's your perspective to call time out that's alright as well but Coach Brannen has shown himself to be pretty good at calling plays out of time outs and stoppages. There's no doubt in my mind that he would've called one if there was an advantage to be had over playing on

He got to the line, didn't he? I didn't like the decision either, but it worked. Funny thing about being a coach is when it works, you don't have to think twice about it.

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