(02-14-2020 02:10 PM)7 Wrote:  Any argument about building loyalty went out the window with the BC and Utah attendances.

7, in all honesty BC and Utah probably have no real fan base in a commutable area of NIU. (Neither does BYU). That is my number one complaint of the whole schedule extravaganza. We needed to get teams that are "close enough" where a fair number (10-15,000) of their fan base will travel to DeKalb. And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

And--what draw do teams like BC and Utah have to the "average" fan even if they had Doug Flutie or Alex Smith on their roster at the time?

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.
announcment:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx
**** our fans:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2008/10/16/N..._2011.aspx

(02-14-2020 03:08 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.

https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx

Next up - we're moving the Vanderbilt game to Joliet and the Maryland game to Peoria.

(02-14-2020 03:08 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.

https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx

Yes--but that was well, well, well before we were really good and not part of our schedule extravaganza.

And, 13 years from now we will say that BYU was coming to HS but we moved it to a 20,000 seat venue.

STF tried to get big names here---and I'm not saying that BC/Utah (7's examples) aren't big---he just hasn't gotten the "right" ones to come here.

You’ll never see UW n DeKalb. I doubt Vandy will show up. They’ll just buy out. Zero reason for P5 programs to come to DeKalb. It’s in that very bottom of FBS destinations.

(02-14-2020 02:06 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:15 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:01 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 10:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  Amen to this. This is what people dont understand. We had over a decade of rot with the home schedule that it's going to take a hell of a lot more than one game vs Utah to change that. We lost a generation of fans due to AD in incompetence of the last 10 plus years , it won't be fixed overnight, but it will not ever be fixed unless things start to change now

So if one game against Utah won't change it, how would one game against BYU change it? I think one of the issues is fans use "What was" and try to apply it to today. I don't think scheduling opponents is what it used to be. SOS and money has altered how P5s select away games. So to think you can get a quality P5 team into dekalb every year and market that seems impractical. Especially they way the P5's now cancel their end of home&homes.

Maction killed most of the fan base. The quality tv coverage killed the rest. Those are the issues i think they're fighting first and foremost. You could have Bama in dekalb, sell 25k tickets. The next maction tuesday game will still have 8k attend.

I'm still waiting for anyone in the athletic department or the president to even admit that MACtion is a problem, if they actually care about attendance. It's becoming clear that they don't.

The BYU game is just one more thing to add on top of the other issues.

They are either too dumb to understand it or too obstinate to admit it.

They're success is based on revenue, not loyalty. loyalty is something they exploit more than cultivate. It's really just pure business now. What we need is some common ground that works for both sides.

People want home games. They want their tailgate spots, fattys and memories. Find a way for 3 early season Saturday home games. Try to move a early P5 payday to midseason. Get a good P5 to come here, but not Dekalb. A Chicago venue. Remember, P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans as they raise season ticket prices. Try being a P5 fan and seeing NIU on the schedule. Take Wisconsin. We think great, Madison is awesome. P5 packed stadium. Cool restaurants and bars. What do Badger fans think? Dekalb Holiday Inn and a half filled stadium. You need to sell Chicago and a cool venue. Scheduling is a 2way street. Not just about satisfying Huskie fans.

Two Maction games at SeatGeek. 99% complain about those games. If they can get 12-15K in Bridgeview you have to let them. Would you prefer Frazier go full Bill Wirtz and black-out local tv for those games?

Its desperate times people. You can't use the fan model from 10-20 years ago.

I posted this with reasons and more detail on Page 14 of this thread: put the two weekday night games in Bridgeview where you stand a better chance of drawing from those 160,000 alumni than from the much thinner fanbase around DeKalb. Then NIU can focus its attention on pushing the four Saturday games in Huskie Stadium. If it can prove that those four Saturday games can draw, it might get some impetus for remodeling HS.

Yes, Maction is a major problem, but that contract runs through 2027 and what reason does ESPN have to agree to a change? In the meantime, NIU has to at least try to get something going somewhere. IMO, it just p'o's some people that the move is the BYU game.

(02-14-2020 03:29 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 02:06 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:15 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:01 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  So if one game against Utah won't change it, how would one game against BYU change it? I think one of the issues is fans use "What was" and try to apply it to today. I don't think scheduling opponents is what it used to be. SOS and money has altered how P5s select away games. So to think you can get a quality P5 team into dekalb every year and market that seems impractical. Especially they way the P5's now cancel their end of home&homes.

Maction killed most of the fan base. The quality tv coverage killed the rest. Those are the issues i think they're fighting first and foremost. You could have Bama in dekalb, sell 25k tickets. The next maction tuesday game will still have 8k attend.

I'm still waiting for anyone in the athletic department or the president to even admit that MACtion is a problem, if they actually care about attendance. It's becoming clear that they don't.

The BYU game is just one more thing to add on top of the other issues.

They are either too dumb to understand it or too obstinate to admit it.

They're success is based on revenue, not loyalty. loyalty is something they exploit more than cultivate. It's really just pure business now. What we need is some common ground that works for both sides.

People want home games. They want their tailgate spots, fattys and memories. Find a way for 3 early season Saturday home games. Try to move a early P5 payday to midseason. Get a good P5 to come here, but not Dekalb. A Chicago venue. Remember, P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans as they raise season ticket prices. Try being a P5 fan and seeing NIU on the schedule. Take Wisconsin. We think great, Madison is awesome. P5 packed stadium. Cool restaurants and bars. What do Badger fans think? Dekalb Holiday Inn and a half filled stadium. You need to sell Chicago and a cool venue. Scheduling is a 2way street. Not just about satisfying Huskie fans.

Two Maction games at SeatGeek. 99% complain about those games. If they can get 12-15K in Bridgeview you have to let them. Would you prefer Frazier go full Bill Wirtz and black-out local tv for those games?

Its desperate times people. You can't use the fan model from 10-20 years ago.

I posted this with reasons and more detail on Page 14 of this thread: put the two weekday night games in Bridgeview where you stand a better chance of drawing from those 160,000 alumni than from the much thinner fanbase around DeKalb. Then NIU can focus its attention on pushing the four Saturday games in Huskie Stadium. If it can prove that those four Saturday games can draw, it might get some impetus for remodeling HS.

Yes, Maction is a major problem, but that contract runs through 2027 and what reason does ESPN have to agree to a change? In the meantime, NIU has to at least try to get something going somewhere. IMO, it just p'o's some people that the move is the BYU game.

It's a combination of it being the BYU game and one of the few Saturday games also, due to MACtion.

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 02:10 PM)7 Wrote:  Any argument about building loyalty went out the window with the BC and Utah attendances.

7, in all honesty BC and Utah probably have no real fan base in a commutable area of NIU. (Neither does BYU). That is my number one complaint of the whole schedule extravaganza. We needed to get teams that are "close enough" where a fair number (10-15,000) of their fan base will travel to DeKalb. And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

And--what draw do teams like BC and Utah have to the "average" fan even if they had Doug Flutie or Alex Smith on their roster at the time?

If the logic is getting other teams fans in the stadium, every game should be played in Chicago.

(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:29 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 02:06 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:15 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  I'm still waiting for anyone in the athletic department or the president to even admit that MACtion is a problem, if they actually care about attendance. It's becoming clear that they don't.

The BYU game is just one more thing to add on top of the other issues.

They are either too dumb to understand it or too obstinate to admit it.

They're success is based on revenue, not loyalty. loyalty is something they exploit more than cultivate. It's really just pure business now. What we need is some common ground that works for both sides.

People want home games. They want their tailgate spots, fattys and memories. Find a way for 3 early season Saturday home games. Try to move a early P5 payday to midseason. Get a good P5 to come here, but not Dekalb. A Chicago venue. Remember, P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans as they raise season ticket prices. Try being a P5 fan and seeing NIU on the schedule. Take Wisconsin. We think great, Madison is awesome. P5 packed stadium. Cool restaurants and bars. What do Badger fans think? Dekalb Holiday Inn and a half filled stadium. You need to sell Chicago and a cool venue. Scheduling is a 2way street. Not just about satisfying Huskie fans.

Two Maction games at SeatGeek. 99% complain about those games. If they can get 12-15K in Bridgeview you have to let them. Would you prefer Frazier go full Bill Wirtz and black-out local tv for those games?

Its desperate times people. You can't use the fan model from 10-20 years ago.

I posted this with reasons and more detail on Page 14 of this thread: put the two weekday night games in Bridgeview where you stand a better chance of drawing from those 160,000 alumni than from the much thinner fanbase around DeKalb. Then NIU can focus its attention on pushing the four Saturday games in Huskie Stadium. If it can prove that those four Saturday games can draw, it might get some impetus for remodeling HS.

Yes, Maction is a major problem, but that contract runs through 2027 and what reason does ESPN have to agree to a change? In the meantime, NIU has to at least try to get something going somewhere. IMO, it just p'o's some people that the move is the BYU game.

It's a combination of it being the BYU game and one of the few Saturday games also, due to MACtion.

I get that, but since the BYU game at SG is a done deal, I was looking beyond that. Imo, I'd love to see the big crowds and big band and cheerleaders and rows of tailgate tents etc etc at Huskie Stadium, but I don't think those days are coming back. Question is, where do we go from where we are.

The Maction weekday games have become just games on the schedule, primarily because of the evening timing and weather. But those four Saturday games could become something special.

(02-14-2020 03:51 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:38 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:29 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 02:06 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  They are either too dumb to understand it or too obstinate to admit it.

They're success is based on revenue, not loyalty. loyalty is something they exploit more than cultivate. It's really just pure business now. What we need is some common ground that works for both sides.

People want home games. They want their tailgate spots, fattys and memories. Find a way for 3 early season Saturday home games. Try to move a early P5 payday to midseason. Get a good P5 to come here, but not Dekalb. A Chicago venue. Remember, P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans as they raise season ticket prices. Try being a P5 fan and seeing NIU on the schedule. Take Wisconsin. We think great, Madison is awesome. P5 packed stadium. Cool restaurants and bars. What do Badger fans think? Dekalb Holiday Inn and a half filled stadium. You need to sell Chicago and a cool venue. Scheduling is a 2way street. Not just about satisfying Huskie fans.

Two Maction games at SeatGeek. 99% complain about those games. If they can get 12-15K in Bridgeview you have to let them. Would you prefer Frazier go full Bill Wirtz and black-out local tv for those games?

Its desperate times people. You can't use the fan model from 10-20 years ago.

I posted this with reasons and more detail on Page 14 of this thread: put the two weekday night games in Bridgeview where you stand a better chance of drawing from those 160,000 alumni than from the much thinner fanbase around DeKalb. Then NIU can focus its attention on pushing the four Saturday games in Huskie Stadium. If it can prove that those four Saturday games can draw, it might get some impetus for remodeling HS.

Yes, Maction is a major problem, but that contract runs through 2027 and what reason does ESPN have to agree to a change? In the meantime, NIU has to at least try to get something going somewhere. IMO, it just p'o's some people that the move is the BYU game.

It's a combination of it being the BYU game and one of the few Saturday games also, due to MACtion.

I get that, but since the BYU game at SG is a done deal, I was looking beyond that. Imo, I'd love to see the big crowds and big band and cheerleaders and rows of tailgate tents etc etc at Huskie Stadium, but I don't think those days are coming back. Question is, where do we go from where we are.

It kind of reeks of desperation. Bridgeview?

Also, I think it was around the time that STF came aboard, that they jacked up the ticket prices to $42 on the west side (might have been for homecoming). That was about the time that attendance started dropping. Now they're selling these tickets for $35?

One of those moves to make some more money off the local fanbase, then the unintended consequences, and now it's live-with-the-damage-done. Smaller version of the ESPN contract. More evidence that nobody is thinking of how the fanbase might react.

Then again, if STF is so hot-to-trot for those 160,000 Chicagoland alumni, why would the local fanbase get the shaft? isn't it ALL fanbase? Or does STF think he sees gold in them thar Chicago hills?

(02-14-2020 03:16 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  You’ll never see UW n DeKalb. I doubt Vandy will show up. They’ll just buy out. Zero reason for P5 programs to come to DeKalb. It’s in that very bottom of FBS destinations.

it don't change the fact it was scheduled and announced as HS. It was changed 2 years later. No reason to fake in in HS if SF was the plan from the start.

Fiscally, it would be great to attract lots of fans of the opposing team. But I would certainly hate to lose the home game feeling. Those games at Soldier Field sure did not feel like home games.

(02-14-2020 03:08 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.
announcment:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx
**** our fans:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2008/10/16/N..._2011.aspx

Yep. That was a huge fail. Showed a total lack of commitment to games a Huskie stadium. Lack of marketing savy at all. Just plain lack of sense. And failure to listen to your customer.

(02-14-2020 04:19 PM)chihuskie Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:08 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.
announcment:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx
**** our fans:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2008/10/16/N..._2011.aspx

Yep. That was a huge fail. Showed a total lack of commitment to games a Huskie stadium. Lack of marketing savy at all. Just plain lack of sense. And failure to listen to your customer.

If we're signing a 1-1 with somebody, we better have our home game first. Otherwise it isn't happening.

(02-14-2020 04:19 PM)chihuskie Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:08 PM)calvin12 Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 03:01 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  And the problem is you are not getting Wisconsin or Minnesota or Iowa/Iowa St or Notre Dame or Illinois or even Northwestern to come to DeKalb. And it's certainly not like ACC or PAC12 fans are going to look at the schedule and say "ooohhhh, we HAVE to go to the NIU game."

We literally had UW scheduled at HS. NIU moved it, after making the huge announcement that UW was coming to DeKalb, to Soldier Field.
announcment:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2007/3/1/Nor..._2007.aspx
**** our fans:
https://niuhuskies.com/news/2008/10/16/N..._2011.aspx

Yep. That was a huge fail. Showed a total lack of commitment to games a Huskie stadium. Lack of marketing savy at all. Just plain lack of sense. And failure to listen to your customer.

The trouble is that they don’t care about their customers. I am tired of seeing the middle finger. Their goal is to make money in any way possible, even if the customer be damned. If they feel they could make more money by moving the games to U of I’s Memorial Stadium, believe me they would do it.

(02-14-2020 04:26 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  I am tired of seeing the middle finger. Their goal is to make money in any way possible, even if the customer be damned.

They give the fans the finger so much they even have the pigdog doing it.

Sure wish there was a coherent "plan" we were following for the future of NIU athletics. Seems like everything we do now feels like desperation, or we are making decisions by the seat of our pants.

If our home attendance is going to hover at 5K due to Maction or apathy, and we're moving home games to obscure soccer stadiums in the suburbs, not sure I understand why we are bothering to compete at the FBS level.

Vandy should come, so should Indiana, but for some reason we never schedule them. We also gave up a 3-1 with Nebraska to a 4-0 over 8 years which thankfully is now over 10. We've had Iowa State before so why shouldn't they come back. I doubt we see the Maryland game at HS, that game is so far out.

(02-14-2020 02:06 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Remember, P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans as they raise season ticket prices. Try being a P5 fan and seeing NIU on the schedule. Take Wisconsin. We think great, Madison is awesome. P5 packed stadium. Cool restaurants and bars. What do Badger fans think? Dekalb Holiday Inn and a half filled stadium. You need to sell Chicago and a cool venue. Scheduling is a 2way street. Not just about satisfying Huskie fans.

Rabid Squirrel: Quit trying to have it both ways. You insist quality P5 programs will no longer do home and home, 2-for-1, 3-for-1, whatever with us, so then don't use the b.s. logic that P5 teams have to sell their OOC schedule to their fans.
You're right, Wisconsin is never going to come to DeKalb, but we need an AD with balls to negotiate a contract and then make it stick -- unless STF is hiding the true language of our deals and allowing opponents to force us to into a neutral site for the return.
There's no excuse for Vandy not coming here when they've done it before. They don't travel with enough fans that they couldn't be accommodated in Huskie Stadium (especially since you're convinced even Alabama wouldn't draw fans in DeKalb).
Show me any evidence of P5 programs "selling" their OOC schedule based on anything other than a TV opportunity. You honestly believe Badger fans or any fans anywhere have that much influence on scheduling road foes?
Illinois would strategically only gamble on scheduling us IF they assume they'll be stronger because in-state recruiting is at stake. With that factor negated, how exactly how have the ILL-ness sold their home games with MAC foes? 2020 vs. BGSU, 2019 vs. Akron and EMU; 2018 vs. Kent, 2017 vs. Ball State. Wonder what was their pitch to their fans to face Western Illinois, Charleston Southern and Texas State?
IF the OOC road schedule directly affects home game sales then why haven't our season ticket sales been helped by annual "pay-out" visits to "big-time" opponents like Nebraska, Iowa, Florida State, or in the past when it came to Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, etc.?
Scheduling is not a two-way street when it comes to the cream of the P5 programs, so try to pick off a bottom P5 ala Kansas, Indiana, or Rutgers. And it shouldn't be the case with other G5s if STF has any influence. Why not home and home with UNLV, San Jose State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Rice, Old Dominion, UConn, Tulane.
Opposing schools -- be they P5 or G5 -- schedule "away" games based on the belief it's more than likely a victory rather than what their fans think.
NIU007 is right that we've had so few decent opponents that one game -- especially if we don't win ala beating Wake Forest, Kansas State, Maryland, in town -- won't guarantee a turn-around, but it could spark more interest in town. And NIU007 is also correct in saying nobody in our admin is even willing to indicate frustration with maction or acknowledge its negative impact.
As Diehard Huskie also noted, the supposed value in national exposure from maction has continued to decline.
Wasn't the whole premise behind Schedulepalooza to upgrade our home schedule? Based on your belief Vandy won't show and neither will Maryland, then half of STF's big deal was a lie.