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What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
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usffan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 04:05 PM)esayem Wrote:  Wow.

How many people apply to South Florida each year?

https://www.usf.edu/news/2019/usf-welcom...class.aspx

Quote:This fall the USF System welcomes its most academically accomplished incoming freshman class ever. The group of first time in college (FTIC) students carry an average ACT score of 29, an average SAT score of 1286 and an average high school GPA of 4.13. The group is comprised of approximately 100 high school valedictorians and salutatorians, along with 34 National Merit Scholars, an increase from 22 last year.

This also marks the largest freshman class in USF history, with 3,773 students, an increase of more than 15 percent over last year. Overall, USF received more than 41,000 freshman applications, an all-time high.

Note that the 3,773 only refers to new students starting in fall, not students who started in summer or spring.

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02-12-2020 06:32 PM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 04:05 PM)esayem Wrote:  Wow.

How many people apply to South Florida each year?

All the Florida schools that play FBS football have acceptance rates that are 50% are less. First its a huge state, and second they get a lot of out of state applications from people in cooler climates. They don't have the room to accept them all.

FAU and FIU are above 50, but both are still more selective than most of those numbers given for the Big East's schools...

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02-12-2020 06:34 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 04:05 PM)esayem Wrote:  Wow.

How many people apply to South Florida each year?

All the Florida schools that play FBS football have acceptance rates that are 50% are less. First its a huge state, and second they get a lot of out of state applications from people in cooler climates. They don't have the room to accept them all.

I guess I never realized how giant (student-wise) they all are.
02-12-2020 07:28 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #64
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 05:39 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 02:27 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/

And, incorporating your data, here are the percentages from the Big East (2005-2012);

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
Notre Dame: 19%
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
USF 45%
Syracuse: 46%

Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Rutgers: 58%
Pittsburgh: 59%

Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
West Virginia: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Louisville: 75%
Cincinnati 77%

Marquette: 89%

There was also a clear disparity in the old form of the league as well. Georgetown lost a strong academic peer in Notre Dame. However, three new additions they have now joined (Butler, Creighton and Xavier) are in the exact same tier (from an acceptance rate standpoint) that several of the departed BE members were (Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati).

And, yes, Marquette is currently undergoing new admissions strategies to increase enrollment a little bit, but also to strength a few of its academic programs (as the article listed mentions). They were at 55% just a few years ago.

People also need to be very careful about using acceptance rates by themselves. I can't tell you how many angry calls that the University of Illinois admissions office receives every year about how parents are shocked that their snowflake kids didn't get into the school, often citing, "This school has an overall 60% acceptance rate! How did my superstar snowflake that went to the best high school in the state not get in?!" If those parents did a modicum of research, they'll see that the engineering program that their kids wanted has an ACT 25th/75th percentile range of 33 to 35 (where 36 is perfect). Superficially, the overall school acceptance rate looks high, but that belies the fact that Illinois is a school that actually has totally different admissions standards for each *program* at the undergrad level (more akin to applying to grad school). There are a lot of public universities that do the same thing. Sure, you can get into the UIUC agriculture school where they need warm bodies with some mediocre grades and test scores with high acceptance rates as a backdoor if you simply want to be in Champaign for the sake of being in Champaign, but it's not going to be the same at all if you want to study engineering or business (which have significantly lower acceptance rates and require much higher grades and test scores).

From what I see, the 25th/75th percentile ACT/SAT score range tracks better with whether a school is truly selective compared to the acceptance rate. As others have noted, the acceptance rate can be gamed (e.g. schools on the Common App simply receive a lot more applications) and many schools (particularly public schools) have many different acceptance rates for many different programs, but the quality of the student body that actually ends up attending is much more transparent.

So where does one find those numbers?
02-12-2020 08:16 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #65
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
I wanted to attend DePaul starting in the 1988-89 academic year (I had longed "romanticized" the university and, for that matter, the city of Chicago, the latter since the 1960s due to the Cubs) after living and working in Chicago starting in 1987. But it was not meant to be and my parents didn't even remotely attempt to get me accepted at DU (would have been a failed effort regardless). So I opted for Roosevelt University (which is indirectly affiliated with DePaul via the University Center and some academic degree programs). And I strongly enjoyed the experience at RU.
02-12-2020 08:46 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
One aspect to this we haven't considered is that maybe part of the reason why Dayton is out of the running for a big boy conference like the AAC has to do with their other sports.

Wichita not only was paying their men's BB coach 3 million per year but they also were known to have a pretty good baseball team. Volleyball I believe they make noise as well.

Dayton seems to not be as well rounded athletically.
02-13-2020 02:25 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-13-2020 02:25 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One aspect to this we haven't considered is that maybe part of the reason why Dayton is out of the running for a big boy conference like the AAC has to do with their other sports.
Yeah, the main reason that hasn't been considered is that it's not a factor.

Quote: Wichita not only was paying their men's BB coach 3 million per year but they also were known to have a pretty good baseball team. Volleyball I believe they make noise as well.

Dayton seems to not be as well rounded athletically.

A school isn't getting into AAC on the back of the strength of it's baseball or volleyball team, nor is it getting left out due to their weakness. A conference will make the move and then sort out what it means for their Olympic sports competition. The travel cost to send your Olympic sports teams there may be factored in, but other than Basketaball, not the strength of the teams they are likely to encounter when they get there.
02-13-2020 03:12 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #68
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-13-2020 03:12 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-13-2020 02:25 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  One aspect to this we haven't considered is that maybe part of the reason why Dayton is out of the running for a big boy conference like the AAC has to do with their other sports.
Yeah, the main reason that hasn't been considered is that it's not a factor.

Quote: Wichita not only was paying their men's BB coach 3 million per year but they also were known to have a pretty good baseball team. Volleyball I believe they make noise as well.

Dayton seems to not be as well rounded athletically.

A school isn't getting into AAC on the back of the strength of it's baseball or volleyball team, nor is it getting left out due to their weakness. A conference will make the move and then sort out what it means for their Olympic sports competition. The travel cost to send your Olympic sports teams there may be factored in, but other than Basketaball, not the strength of the teams they are likely to encounter when they get there.

No it is a factor if you are a non-power school running top 20 athletic programs. It makes you more desirable as an all sport member. That means the said school has the situation to dominate its space in recruiting.

The one thing I'll say about the AAC is they are the type of athletic schools with a track record of competing nationally. Wichita is one of those schools.

Think of why Coastal Carolina earned a bid to the Sun Belt. A large justification for them was they were the all sport class of the conference. The average G5 school would dominate a lower tier conference and you see that with New Mexico St in the WAC getting the autobid year after year.

Sweeping the conference championships is an indicator. Always in the Top 3 in the conference of every sport is an indicator.
02-13-2020 09:24 PM
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Shox Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 11:03 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I've said for years that the AAC should invite Dayton. It was a mistake to only add Wichita; we should have also added Dayton.


Agreed!
02-13-2020 11:24 PM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
Think during the next media contract will be the time the Big East goes to 12 teams. It will mostly likely come from the A10 (Dayton or SLU), which has taken a number of hits with Temple, Xavier, Butler leaving. The interesting thing for a UMass fan is during the next realignment, will the A10 be able to be a multi-bid conference.

See if with the BE taking a 12th team and if other things shake out as some form of a new East Coast G5 conference ever becomes a reality. My feeling is with all the moving parts, say not only for the Big East but 5 years from now, there will be movement. Believe the Big East will be asked to go to 12 teams.
02-14-2020 10:03 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #71
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
St. Louis is a geographic outlier/sore thumb in the Atlantic 10, the A-10 might be happy if St. Louis leaves. At least the teams won't have to fly to St. Louis anymore.
02-14-2020 10:16 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
I've been wanting the American to invite Dayton and VCU for awhile. I thought they should have been invited when Wichita State was invited. Especially with losing UConn we need more basketball teams and ones with actually basketball support.
02-14-2020 10:23 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.
02-14-2020 11:28 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #74
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

The only hope in that regard is if a media network tells them that it's an add that will help boost their media value. There is certainly a better chance for them to be additive for the Big East than for the AAC.

How much of a splash they make in the Tourney and how frequently is the only part of that they can directly influence.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 12:20 PM by BruceMcF.)
02-14-2020 12:15 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
For that matter, I'd love Temple to be in the Big East. Good luck getting Villanova to sign off on that. Think how much worse the AAC's going to be for Temple without UConn.
02-14-2020 12:41 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #76
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

I don't want my alma mater in a conference with Dayton or Xavier. Those schools don't play football.
02-14-2020 12:59 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #77
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 12:59 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

I don't want my alma mater in a conference with Dayton or Xavier. Those schools don't play football.

Rather fly to SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Tulane?
02-14-2020 01:09 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #78
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:09 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:59 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

I don't want my alma mater in a conference with Dayton or Xavier. Those schools don't play football.

Rather fly to SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Tulane?

Do you want the Big 5 all playing in the same conference?

In a perfect world UC is not flying to Tulsa and Tulane either.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 01:14 PM by CliftonAve.)
02-14-2020 01:13 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #79
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:13 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:09 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:59 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

I don't want my alma mater in a conference with Dayton or Xavier. Those schools don't play football.

Rather fly to SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Tulane?

Do you want the Big 5 all playing in the same conference?

In a perfect world UC is not flying to Tulsa and Tulane either.

Sure. Love for the Big 5 in one conference.

I can tell you this, I'd way rather Temple be in the Big East than the AAC. Would Cincinnati? Football gets downgraded but basketball gets upgraded.
02-14-2020 01:21 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?
02-14-2020 01:29 PM
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