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What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 12:39 PM)pki1998 Wrote:  I’m one of the few Xavier fans, that would like to be in a conference with UD again. Local games are just more fun because you can trash talk with friends, family members and coworkers that follow the other team.

The Positives-Honestly Dayton checks a lot of a boxes. They have a long history with X, DePaul and Marquette. They are the premier basketball team in a decent size market, and they own that market in much the same way that Creighton owns Omaha. They have great fan support even in down years, and they travel to follow the team. UD arena is a great place to watch a game, if you are not wearing X gear. Outside their brief time in the Great Midwest, they have been a team in the upper half of their conference. They are also trending up in the A10, which is still a solid league

The Negatives - There really aren’t a lot. First for the conference to add them it has to make sense financially, I’m not sure if Fox would be willing to shell out the money to make it work. But given how Dayton owns their market and the fact that they watch more than just Dayton basketball, maybe it’s worth it to Fox. The next negative they have is with X and Butler so close they don’t offer new recruiting area. This is not the same as having Seton Hall St. John’s and Villanova so close to each other since the population is so much larger there. Another negative is perception,casual fans determine how good you are by what conference you are in. There are exceptions, such as Gonzaga but they are few and far between. Dayton is on the right path with the performance this year and their recent elite eight run. The key is for them to sustain this success and force the Big East to invite them. The only other roadblock is the end of double round robin. As a fan I love the double round robin, not sure how much the decision makers care.

There are a few pipe dream schools that the Big East Schools would add right away,Syracuse, ND, Duke, or BC. Those schools are never coming so there is the next group that is probably the leading candidates for expansion

Dayton
VCU
St. Louis
maybe Duquesne
maybe Loyola Chicago
Maybe St Joe’s

Then a list of long shots that would have to go on a run better than Butler

Detroit
Fordham
Holy Cross
Siena
Canisus
Boston U
Northwestern
UMass

Personally I think expansion will come when a team separates it self from the pack and the media dollars will force the leagues to add someone. My Bet is Dayton or St Louis at least 10 Years from now
What about URI?
02-11-2020 08:54 PM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 07:26 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It took 2 national title appearances for Butler to get noticed by the A-10 and then the BE.

What does Dayton have to do to prove that they are worthy?

I think the ACC will quit the special treatment for ND all or nothing.

Notre Dame will then join with true independent in football.
02-11-2020 09:18 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 04:44 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Dayton has a 60% acceptance rate. My god. I hope Georgetown leaves before that happens.
Lower than Butler or Depaul's. You can always see if the Ivies are willing to expand down south if that's that important.
02-11-2020 09:24 PM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 09:18 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 07:26 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It took 2 national title appearances for Butler to get noticed by the A-10 and then the BE.

What does Dayton have to do to prove that they are worthy?

I think the ACC will quit the special treatment for ND all or nothing.

Notre Dame will then join with true independent in football.

Or Notre Dame goes all in with the ACC, and to placate the Irish and maintain their FB series, the ACC adds Navy FB-only as it’s 16th team. To even up the basketball side the ACC invites Villanova for Olympic Sports and if they say no the ACC takes Georgetown (over the objections of UVA and VT but to the liking of Cuse, Pitt, BC, Louisville, Miami and Notre Dame ). The Big East then takes Dayton to get back to 11.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2020 10:00 PM by CarlSmithCenter.)
02-11-2020 09:58 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 09:24 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 04:44 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Dayton has a 60% acceptance rate. My god. I hope Georgetown leaves before that happens.
Lower than Butler or Depaul's. You can always see if the Ivies are willing to expand down south if that's that important.

Or just follow your football and dump everything into the Patriot.
02-11-2020 10:12 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 09:24 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 04:44 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Dayton has a 60% acceptance rate. My god. I hope Georgetown leaves before that happens.
Lower than Butler or Depaul's. You can always see if the Ivies are willing to expand down south if that's that important.

+1. Dayton’s a good school. Academic snobbery towards Dayton makes me giggle. People have to find someway to pat themselves on the back and feel important.
02-11-2020 10:29 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
The BE may not sponsor football but it is still about money. It's the same story we've been hearing all along. Dayton needs to add enough money so the other schools don't get a smaller cut and hopefully get a bigger cut. They need to make some runs in the NCAAT. They need to increase their Q-score. They need to play some of the big guys and get some upsets.
02-11-2020 11:45 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #48
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 04:44 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Dayton has a 60% acceptance rate. My god. I hope Georgetown leaves before that happens.

Is that why you switched your allegiance from ECU to Georgetown?
02-12-2020 12:08 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2020 01:24 PM by DFW HOYA.)
02-12-2020 01:18 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/


The numbers do not suggest a collection of highly academically prestigious universities but I could be wrong. The numbers might be a bit inaccurate. I see 68% for DePaul (which I wanted to attend but could not due to bad grades).

My relative was fortunate to have once been accepted to Georgetown (but had to opt for a Plan B, as I have posted in the past, due to a severe health crisis). The admissions requirements are strict at GU. My relative spent countless hours studying in high school to get accepted to GU.
02-12-2020 01:48 PM
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NBPirate Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/

Georgetown’s would be in the single digits if it used the common app.
02-12-2020 02:14 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
I believe 30 million is the entrance fee.
One time cash payment.
Anyone willing able to pay is allowed in.
02-12-2020 02:19 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 02:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I believe 30 million is the entrance fee.
One time cash payment.
Anyone willing able to pay is allowed in.

To Georgetown or to the Big East?
02-12-2020 02:20 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #54
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/

And, incorporating your data, here are the percentages from the Big East (2005-2012);

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
Notre Dame: 19%
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
USF 45%
Syracuse: 46%

Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Rutgers: 58%
Pittsburgh: 59%

Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
West Virginia: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Louisville: 75%
Cincinnati 77%

Marquette: 89%

There was also a clear disparity in the old form of the league as well. Georgetown lost a strong academic peer in Notre Dame. However, three new additions they have now joined (Butler, Creighton and Xavier) are in the exact same tier (from an acceptance rate standpoint) that several of the departed BE members were (Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati).

And, yes, Marquette is currently undergoing new admissions strategies to increase enrollment a little bit, but also to strength a few of its academic programs (as the article listed mentions). They were at 55% just a few years ago.
02-12-2020 02:27 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
If Georgetown is going to be picky about the admissions standards of its conference mates then they can trot on over to the Patriot League full time.
02-12-2020 02:47 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #56
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
Wow.

How many people apply to South Florida each year?
02-12-2020 04:05 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #57
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 04:05 PM)esayem Wrote:  Wow.

How many people apply to South Florida each year?

All the Florida schools that play FBS football have acceptance rates that are 50% are less. First its a huge state, and second they get a lot of out of state applications from people in cooler climates. They don't have the room to accept them all.
02-12-2020 04:22 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #58
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 04:25 PM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Move the campus to Detroit. Same answer for Gonzaga.

Yes - Dayton's issue is location, location, location. Unfortunately for them, that's the one thing that they have zero ability to change. I know that there's an argument that Dayton (the metro area) is technically a separate TV market than Cincinnati, but the powers that be just look at that area as the same single region.

If Dayton had SLU's location, then they'd be in the Big East already. By the same token, if SLU had Dayton's on-the-court performance, then they'd also be in the Big East already. In theory, SLU could conceivably start performing well enough on-the-court to merit Big East consideration. However, whether it's fair or not, there's nothing that Dayton can do because of where it's located.

It would be akin to adding Iowa State to the Big Ten or another North Carolina-based school to the ACC - it's just not happening because those leagues already have those markets covered no matter how well those school are performing.
02-12-2020 05:24 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 02:27 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/

And, incorporating your data, here are the percentages from the Big East (2005-2012);

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
Notre Dame: 19%
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
USF 45%
Syracuse: 46%

Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Rutgers: 58%
Pittsburgh: 59%

Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
West Virginia: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Louisville: 75%
Cincinnati 77%

Marquette: 89%

There was also a clear disparity in the old form of the league as well. Georgetown lost a strong academic peer in Notre Dame. However, three new additions they have now joined (Butler, Creighton and Xavier) are in the exact same tier (from an acceptance rate standpoint) that several of the departed BE members were (Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati).

And, yes, Marquette is currently undergoing new admissions strategies to increase enrollment a little bit, but also to strength a few of its academic programs (as the article listed mentions). They were at 55% just a few years ago.

People also need to be very careful about using acceptance rates by themselves. I can't tell you how many angry calls that the University of Illinois admissions office receives every year about how parents are shocked that their snowflake kids didn't get into the school, often citing, "This school has an overall 60% acceptance rate! How did my superstar snowflake that went to the best high school in the state not get in?!" If those parents did a modicum of research, they'll see that the engineering program that their kids wanted has an ACT 25th/75th percentile range of 33 to 35 (where 36 is perfect). Superficially, the overall school acceptance rate looks high, but that belies the fact that Illinois is a school that actually has totally different admissions standards for each *program* at the undergrad level (more akin to applying to grad school). There are a lot of public universities that do the same thing. Sure, you can get into the UIUC agriculture school where they need warm bodies with some mediocre grades and test scores with high acceptance rates as a backdoor if you simply want to be in Champaign for the sake of being in Champaign, but it's not going to be the same at all if you want to study engineering or business (which have significantly lower acceptance rates and require much higher grades and test scores).

From what I see, the 25th/75th percentile ACT/SAT score range tracks better with whether a school is truly selective compared to the acceptance rate. As others have noted, the acceptance rate can be gamed (e.g. schools on the Common App simply receive a lot more applications) and many schools (particularly public schools) have many different acceptance rates for many different programs, but the quality of the student body that actually ends up attending is much more transparent.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2020 05:41 PM by Frank the Tank.)
02-12-2020 05:39 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #60
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-12-2020 05:39 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 02:27 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(02-12-2020 01:18 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Acceptance rates by Big East schools. Yes, there is a disparity.

All use the Common Application except for Georgetown.

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Marquette: 89%

Marquette is actually driving the number up as part of a strategy.
https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/n...ance-rate/
https://www.niche.com/colleges/marquette-university/

And, incorporating your data, here are the percentages from the Big East (2005-2012);

Georgetown: 14% (no Common App)
Notre Dame: 19%
---------------------------
Villanova: 36%
USF 45%
Syracuse: 46%

Connecticut: 47%
---------------------------
Providence: 51%
Rutgers: 58%
Pittsburgh: 59%

Butler: 65%
St. John's : 67%
DePaul: 71%
Creighton: 72%
West Virginia: 72%
Seton Hall: 73%
Xavier: 74%
Louisville: 75%
Cincinnati 77%

Marquette: 89%

There was also a clear disparity in the old form of the league as well. Georgetown lost a strong academic peer in Notre Dame. However, three new additions they have now joined (Butler, Creighton and Xavier) are in the exact same tier (from an acceptance rate standpoint) that several of the departed BE members were (Rutgers, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati).

And, yes, Marquette is currently undergoing new admissions strategies to increase enrollment a little bit, but also to strength a few of its academic programs (as the article listed mentions). They were at 55% just a few years ago.

People also need to be very careful about using acceptance rates by themselves. I can't tell you how many angry calls that the University of Illinois admissions office receives every year about how parents are shocked that their snowflake kids didn't get into the school, often citing, "This school has an overall 60% acceptance rate! How did my superstar snowflake that went to the best high school in the state not get in?!" If those parents did a modicum of research, they'll see that the engineering program that their kids wanted has an ACT 25th/75th percentile range of 33 to 35 (where 36 is perfect). Superficially, the overall school acceptance rate looks high, but that belies the fact that Illinois is a school that actually has totally different admissions standards for each *program* at the undergrad level (more akin to applying to grad school). There are a lot of public universities that do the same thing. Sure, you can get into the UIUC agriculture school where they need warm bodies with some mediocre grades and test scores with high acceptance rates as a backdoor if you simply want to be in Champaign for the sake of being in Champaign, but it's not going to be the same at all if you want to study engineering or business (which have significantly lower acceptance rates and require much higher grades and test scores).

From what I see, the 25th/75th percentile ACT/SAT score range tracks better with whether a school is truly selective compared to the acceptance rate. As others have noted, the acceptance rate can be gamed (e.g. schools on the Common App simply receive a lot more applications) and many schools (particularly public schools) have many different acceptance rates for many different programs, but the quality of the student body that actually ends up attending is much more transparent.

I had a guy that lived in the same dorm as me (Olgesby) that was rejected by the business school, so he applied to a different program and was admitted. His hope was to get good enough grades in the Freshman/Sophomore level classes that he could reapply to the Business school.

So he was rejected AND accepted by the U of I, just not the program he wanted.
02-12-2020 05:47 PM
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