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What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #81
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:21 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:13 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:09 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 12:59 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 11:28 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not saying I agree with it but I think the AAC would think the same way about Dayton as the Big East would, they're too close to Cincinnati (in the Big East's case, Xavier). We want to see Cincinnati and Dayton or Xavier and Dayton (heck, Cincinnati and Xavier) in the same conference. The university presidents don't. They'd rather their teams fly all the way to Creighton. What do they care? It's not like they have to do it.

I don't want my alma mater in a conference with Dayton or Xavier. Those schools don't play football.

Rather fly to SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and Tulane?

Do you want the Big 5 all playing in the same conference?

In a perfect world UC is not flying to Tulsa and Tulane either.

Sure. Love for the Big 5 in one conference.

I can tell you this, I'd way rather Temple be in the Big East than the AAC. Would Cincinnati? Football gets downgraded but basketball gets upgraded.

Nope.
02-14-2020 01:35 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:29 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?

I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.
02-14-2020 01:44 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:29 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?

I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.


No I was really only thinking of Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis leaving. And the A10 just becoming another one bid league; not that it would cease to be a league all together. If that's the case would UMass be willing to just join another 1 bid league and give football a home?

I'm only assuming being in a major conference with multiple bids is one of the main reasons they don't want to leave the A10.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 01:54 PM by MUsince96.)
02-14-2020 01:53 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #84
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
Why would the Big East expand? Those schools mentioned really don't improve the league that much.
02-14-2020 01:59 PM
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schmolik Online
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Post: #85
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:53 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:29 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?

I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.


No I was really only thinking of Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis leaving. And the A10 just becoming another one bid league; not that it would cease to be a league all together. If that's the case would UMass be willing to just join another 1 bid league and give football a home?

I'm only assuming being in a major conference with multiple bids is one of the main reasons they don't want to leave the A10.

What football conference would take them assuming the AAC won't? MAC? Sun Belt? Conference USA? And are any of them an upgrade basketball wise over the A-10? Their football team would be in a conference but other than the MAC, imagine the travel for the rest of their teams. And would any of those conferences pay UMass more than the A-10 would (and would the extra money offset the extra travel costs)? Hey, if St. Louis leaves, UMass's travel costs in the A-10 would drop quite a bit (even more if both UMass and Dayton leave).
02-14-2020 02:03 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 02:03 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:53 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:29 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?

I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.


No I was really only thinking of Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis leaving. And the A10 just becoming another one bid league; not that it would cease to be a league all together. If that's the case would UMass be willing to just join another 1 bid league and give football a home?

I'm only assuming being in a major conference with multiple bids is one of the main reasons they don't want to leave the A10.

What football conference would take them assuming the AAC won't? MAC? Sun Belt? Conference USA? And are any of them an upgrade basketball wise over the A-10? Their football team would be in a conference but other than the MAC, imagine the travel for the rest of their teams. And would any of those conferences pay UMass more than the A-10 would (and would the extra money offset the extra travel costs)? Hey, if St. Louis leaves, UMass's travel costs in the A-10 would drop quite a bit (even more if both UMass and Dayton leave).

At that point I don't know that the basketball strength of the new conference matters much if they're both one bid. One bid is one bid. But maybe the A10 wouldn't become a one bid league. I don't know.

I don't know how much money UMass makes from the A10.

Good point on travel cost increase.

I'm just asking the question. I don't know much about UMass and how important findings a football home is to them. On the outside looking in, if the perks of the A10 are gone (besides travel) I'd think they might want to park football somewhere with a chance to play for conference titles and be eligible for the NY6.


If the constant rumors and whispers of CUSA East teams being unhappy are correct, in theory they could split off for a league that includes UMass. As a Marshall fan, my dream scenario would be for the A10 to sponsor FBS football and take in Marshall, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, and Middle Tenn for all sports with Army and UConn football only. That makes an 8 team football conference and a 16 team hoops conference (assuming the Dayton, St. Louis, VCU exit scenario played out).
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 02:20 PM by MUsince96.)
02-14-2020 02:15 PM
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e-parade Offline
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Post: #87
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 02:15 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 02:03 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:53 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:29 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  If the A10 is picked apart by the Big East and AAC does that leave UMass more willing to finally join a conference for all sports and give football a home?

I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.


No I was really only thinking of Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis leaving. And the A10 just becoming another one bid league; not that it would cease to be a league all together. If that's the case would UMass be willing to just join another 1 bid league and give football a home?

I'm only assuming being in a major conference with multiple bids is one of the main reasons they don't want to leave the A10.

What football conference would take them assuming the AAC won't? MAC? Sun Belt? Conference USA? And are any of them an upgrade basketball wise over the A-10? Their football team would be in a conference but other than the MAC, imagine the travel for the rest of their teams. And would any of those conferences pay UMass more than the A-10 would (and would the extra money offset the extra travel costs)? Hey, if St. Louis leaves, UMass's travel costs in the A-10 would drop quite a bit (even more if both UMass and Dayton leave).

At that point I don't know that the basketball strength of the new conference matters much if they're both one bid. One bid is one bid. But maybe the A10 wouldn't become a one bid league. I don't know.

I don't know how much money UMass makes from the A10.

Good point on travel cost increase.

I'm just asking the question. I don't know much about UMass and how important findings a football home is to them. On the outside looking in, if the perks of the A10 are gone (besides travel) I'd think they might want to park football somewhere with a chance to play for conference titles and be eligible for the NY6.


If the constant rumors and whispers of CUSA East teams being unhappy are correct, in theory they could split off for a league that includes UMass. As a Marshall fan, my dream scenario would be for the A10 to sponsor FBS football and take in Marshall, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, and Middle Tenn for all sports with Army and UConn football only. That makes an 8 team football conference and a 16 team hoops conference (assuming the Dayton, St. Louis, VCU exit scenario played out).

With those three gone, the A10 would likely still be a 2 bid league (with a very occasional 3), but have 1-bid years mixed in (we don't have 1 bid years currently). Those 3 would bring it down to 11, and if UMass stays, the A10 would grab another team to bring it up to 12 again.

You have to remember, UMass is a founding member of the league here. And some of these teams have also been around with us for a very long time (GW is another founding member, as is Duquense...even though they left for a hot second, then Bona, URI and St. Joes hopped in pretty early on as well). And there's not much else in the east coast for solid BBall leagues, especially all-sports ones that would invite us (unless we get a new stadium for football and drastically improve performance in football and basketball for both quality of play and attendance).

It would either be the MAC or...too much travel all sports. And the MAC might not want to invite us at this point without getting some of the same improvements mentioned above.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 02:59 PM by e-parade.)
02-14-2020 02:58 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 02:58 PM)e-parade Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 02:15 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 02:03 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:53 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-14-2020 01:44 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I don't see how many A10 members the Big East and AAC can take. You're assuming the Big East and/or AAC want 14+ members. Maybe they each take one. That would still leave the A10 with 12 members. Besides, you know how the food chain goes, they'll just raid lower conferences.


No I was really only thinking of Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis leaving. And the A10 just becoming another one bid league; not that it would cease to be a league all together. If that's the case would UMass be willing to just join another 1 bid league and give football a home?

I'm only assuming being in a major conference with multiple bids is one of the main reasons they don't want to leave the A10.

What football conference would take them assuming the AAC won't? MAC? Sun Belt? Conference USA? And are any of them an upgrade basketball wise over the A-10? Their football team would be in a conference but other than the MAC, imagine the travel for the rest of their teams. And would any of those conferences pay UMass more than the A-10 would (and would the extra money offset the extra travel costs)? Hey, if St. Louis leaves, UMass's travel costs in the A-10 would drop quite a bit (even more if both UMass and Dayton leave).

At that point I don't know that the basketball strength of the new conference matters much if they're both one bid. One bid is one bid. But maybe the A10 wouldn't become a one bid league. I don't know.

I don't know how much money UMass makes from the A10.

Good point on travel cost increase.

I'm just asking the question. I don't know much about UMass and how important findings a football home is to them. On the outside looking in, if the perks of the A10 are gone (besides travel) I'd think they might want to park football somewhere with a chance to play for conference titles and be eligible for the NY6.


If the constant rumors and whispers of CUSA East teams being unhappy are correct, in theory they could split off for a league that includes UMass. As a Marshall fan, my dream scenario would be for the A10 to sponsor FBS football and take in Marshall, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, and Middle Tenn for all sports with Army and UConn football only. That makes an 8 team football conference and a 16 team hoops conference (assuming the Dayton, St. Louis, VCU exit scenario played out).

With those three gone, the A10 would likely still be a 2 bid league (with a very occasional 3), but have 1-bid years mixed in (we don't have 1 bid years currently). Those 3 would bring it down to 11, and if UMass stays, the A10 would grab another team to bring it up to 12 again.

You have to remember, UMass is a founding member of the league here. And some of these teams have also been around with us for a very long time (GW is another founding member, as is Duquense...even though they left for a hot second, then Bona, URI and St. Joes hopped in pretty early on as well). And there's not much else in the east coast for solid BBall leagues, especially all-sports ones that would invite us (unless we get a new stadium for football and drastically improve performance in football and basketball for both quality of play and attendance).

It would either be the MAC or...too much travel all sports. And the MAC might not want to invite us at this point without getting some of the same improvements mentioned above.

Thanks for your input.
02-14-2020 03:42 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #89
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 02:58 PM)e-parade Wrote:  It would either be the MAC or...too much travel all sports. And the MAC might not want to invite us at this point without getting some of the same improvements mentioned above.

Some of the same, to be sure. 171 NET ranking at the moment is about 15 spots below the MAC Eastern division average. It's even below the Western division average. Consistently better than 100 is what would get the serious Basketball schools really interested.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 01:27 AM by BruceMcF.)
02-15-2020 01:26 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-14-2020 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Why would the Big East expand? Those schools mentioned really don't improve the league that much.

They don't need to anymore, UConn was a special exception. Giant conferences are a football inspired phenomenon. There’s no reason for a bloated Big East; 11 might be the largest conference not fielding football.

Had UConn stayed put in the beginning, Creighton wouldn’t have been invited.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 08:03 AM by esayem.)
02-15-2020 08:02 AM
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Post: #91
RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 09:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 09:36 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 08:18 AM)esayem Wrote:  Dayton would probably have to move their campus to another state. Former rivals Xavier and Cincinnati don’t even schedule them anymore. Unfortunately, we all know this happens in realignment.

Oh, they wouldn't have to leave the state. Moving to Cleveland would be sufficient. Just so long as they were not in Southwest Ohio.

But that's just a different shade of not going to happen, so its a distinction without much difference.

For UConn, a national championship and long history of playing the Big East schools was sufficient. But that was to get to 11 ... there's no particular reason a basketball conference cannot stay at 11 indefinitely, so a 12th might have to match that then top it.

If UD were in Cleveland they would not have the ravenous fan base they currently have. Dayton has a great fan base because they don't have pro sports in town. If UD were in Cleveland they would have been drowned out by the Browns, Indians and Cavs. That's not even getting into the whole Ohio State obsession up there (which may exist in southwest Ohio for football to an extent, but is non-existent in hoops).

Northeast Ohio only cares about OSU football. Nobody here actually follows OSU basketball except for maybe when the tournament rolls around. College hoops is dead here and that's coming from an Akron fan. Perhaps if one of the 4 northeast teams were as good as Dayton, Xavier, or Cincy people in this area would develop a sustained interest, but that hasn't happened.
02-15-2020 09:50 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-15-2020 09:50 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Northeast Ohio only cares about OSU football. Nobody here actually follows OSU basketball except for maybe when the tournament rolls around. College hoops is dead here and that's coming from an Akron fan.
Yeah, that's my impression from when I lived in Portage County.

Quote: Perhaps if one of the 4 northeast teams were as good as Dayton, Xavier, or Cincy people in this area would develop a sustained interest, but that hasn't happened.
Yeah ... when the MAC schools have a starting five with a combination of talent and chemistry to hang with some of the bigger boys, they don't have the bench to stay with them to the end of the game.

If a coach were to start to develop a program to the point where the current quality of the best three on a MAC school stretches out to the best eight ...
... that coach would be picked to coach at a bigger school.

As we have just seen.
02-15-2020 11:37 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-11-2020 09:18 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  
(02-11-2020 07:26 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It took 2 national title appearances for Butler to get noticed by the A-10 and then the BE.

What does Dayton have to do to prove that they are worthy?

I think the ACC will quit the special treatment for ND all or nothing.

Notre Dame will then join with true independent in football.

I doubt that the ACC will boot ND. Its a great institutional fit with Wake, NC, Duke, and Virginia. It is also a great fit with other OBE schools Pitt, Syracuse, and BC. ND and the ACC are tied together at the hip for the long run even if it's FB program remains independent which it in all likelihood will. 07-coffee3
02-15-2020 12:23 PM
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-15-2020 08:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  They don't need to anymore, UConn was a special exception. Giant conferences are a football inspired phenomenon. There’s no reason for a bloated Big East; 11 might be the largest conference not fielding football.

The A-10 has 14.
02-15-2020 01:14 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-15-2020 01:14 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(02-15-2020 08:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  They don't need to anymore, UConn was a special exception. Giant conferences are a football inspired phenomenon. There’s no reason for a bloated Big East; 11 might be the largest conference not fielding football.

The A-10 has 14.

Ah, good catch. The A-10 doesn’t sponsor football anymore either, and has replenished since then. Probably due to the fact their best teams left and they had to make-up for the bottom dwellers.
02-15-2020 01:27 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
IMO, I think 12 members is the ideal "sweet spot" for a non-football conference. Anything beyond that adds bulk and unnecessary weight to a league.
02-16-2020 10:45 AM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-16-2020 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  IMO, I think 12 members is the ideal "sweet spot" for a non-football conference. Anything beyond that adds bulk and unnecessary weight to a league.

16 with the right pod setup is pretty darn good as well.
02-16-2020 10:58 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-16-2020 10:58 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-16-2020 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  IMO, I think 12 members is the ideal "sweet spot" for a non-football conference. Anything beyond that adds bulk and unnecessary weight to a league.

16 with the right pod setup is pretty darn good as well.

Why would a basketball league need to go to pods?
02-16-2020 11:10 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-16-2020 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  IMO, I think 12 members is the ideal "sweet spot" for a non-football conference. Anything beyond that adds bulk and unnecessary weight to a league.

Why 12? 11 seems good with the 20 game conference schedule.
02-16-2020 11:42 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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RE: What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?
(02-15-2020 01:27 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-15-2020 01:14 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(02-15-2020 08:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  They don't need to anymore, UConn was a special exception. Giant conferences are a football inspired phenomenon. There’s no reason for a bloated Big East; 11 might be the largest conference not fielding football.

The A-10 has 14.

Ah, good catch. The A-10 doesn’t sponsor football anymore either, and has replenished since then. Probably due to the fact their best teams left and they had to make-up for the bottom dwellers.
The A10 never truly sponsored or wanted football. When Fordham was added, the A10 did not even ask them to move their football from the Patriot League. When the Yankee Conference dissolved, reluctantly the A10 took football and was more than happy to have the CAA take it over. Richmond had recently joined the A10 and they were the swing vote to have the CAA take it over.

The A10 added teams as Xavier, Dayton, Temple, Butler, Davidson, VCU, Richmond etc. They all have fine BB. Yes LASalle and Fordham are generally not good, but for the most part the A10 has been fine and peaked with 6 bids in 2014 after Temple, Xavier, Butler and Charlotte left. That was the year of the CFP and the MAC ultimatum.

I don't see VCU leaving but the next realignment will be interesting. Personally wish UMass would team up with UConn for a FB affiliation, but that seems like a dream. Our AD has said the SunBelt is out due to travel. The MAC, CUSA and the new unknown East Coast conference are all possibilities.

The A10 receives 5M in media contracts and the NCAA credits are 75% goes to teams receiving them in the past 6 years and then a 25% share. UMass getting 75% is rolling off after this year and would be under 1M in total from the A10.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2020 09:36 AM by Steve1981.)
02-17-2020 09:16 AM
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