The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(02-10-2020 02:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:32 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 12:55 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  If UC wants to be any part of future realignment they need to commit all-in on athletics. Make Fick the highest paid G5 coach. $4M plus a substantial bump for his assistants plus a 5 year rolling contract. Pay the man.

I could easily argue Fickel is the best UC football coach in the last 50 years. Back-to-back 11 wins seasons and the highest rated recruiting class in school history . Why would you want to give up someone like that. Even during the BK years we didn't have nowhere close to this level of recruiting. BK was winning with Dantonio's players.

Since Gillman it is either Kelly or Luke. I have Kelly ahead as he came with seconds of playing for NCAA Championship.

That's a tough call, because we saw what Kelly's recruiting was like after he left, the cupboard was barer than a baby's ass in Jones' first year. Fickell is clearly gearing up, not tapering off,

Butch won a lot of games with Kelly recruits at the core his 2nd and 3rd seasons. I just have never bought this. I think we give Butch a pretty big pass for that first year when he has a lot of the fault (plus injuries and probably a lack of quality depth that had developed yet).

Wouldn't there being a lack of quality depth be a foundation to the argument that Kelly didn't necessarily recruit all that well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Cinci...tball_team

There were A LOT of freshmen and sophomores on the 2012 team...enough to hold up a bloated corpse with 9 wins for two more years.

(02-10-2020 02:48 PM)applegbt Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:32 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 12:55 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  If UC wants to be any part of future realignment they need to commit all-in on athletics. Make Fick the highest paid G5 coach. $4M plus a substantial bump for his assistants plus a 5 year rolling contract. Pay the man.

I could easily argue Fickel is the best UC football coach in the last 50 years. Back-to-back 11 wins seasons and the highest rated recruiting class in school history . Why would you want to give up someone like that. Even during the BK years we didn't have nowhere close to this level of recruiting. BK was winning with Dantonio's players.

Since Gillman it is either Kelly or Luke. I have Kelly ahead as he came with seconds of playing for NCAA Championship.

That's a tough call, because we saw what Kelly's recruiting was like after he left, the cupboard was barer than a baby's ass in Jones' first year. Fickell is clearly gearing up, not tapering off,

Butch won a lot of games with Kelly recruits at the core his 2nd and 3rd seasons. I just have never bought this. I think we give Butch a pretty big pass for that first year when he has a lot of the fault (plus injuries and probably a lack of quality depth that had developed yet).

Possibly true. But regardless, it seems like the recruiting momentum and success we've had under CLF is unprecedented for this program. I believe coach Fick is still learning as a head coach (whereas BK came in a bit more seasoned), but to me that just means tons of potential to get even better. What he's done well right out of the gate is recruit and motivate. And it seems like he and his group of coaches just keep getting better at it.

I don't disagree with any of that. Fickell's recruiting has been unprecedented and he's done it without the Big East auto bid / higher level of play. I'm not ready to say he's better than Kelly overall. Kelly honestly may still have the three best Bearcat teams of my lifetime, but Fickell is program building like none before him and I'm stoked to see what the results may be. The degree of difficulty of where Fickell started (following Tuberville) also matters as well.

(02-10-2020 02:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:32 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 12:55 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  If UC wants to be any part of future realignment they need to commit all-in on athletics. Make Fick the highest paid G5 coach. $4M plus a substantial bump for his assistants plus a 5 year rolling contract. Pay the man.

I could easily argue Fickel is the best UC football coach in the last 50 years. Back-to-back 11 wins seasons and the highest rated recruiting class in school history . Why would you want to give up someone like that. Even during the BK years we didn't have nowhere close to this level of recruiting. BK was winning with Dantonio's players.

Since Gillman it is either Kelly or Luke. I have Kelly ahead as he came with seconds of playing for NCAA Championship.

That's a tough call, because we saw what Kelly's recruiting was like after he left, the cupboard was barer than a baby's ass in Jones' first year. Fickell is clearly gearing up, not tapering off,

Butch won a lot of games with Kelly recruits at the core his 2nd and 3rd seasons. I just have never bought this. I think we give Butch a pretty big pass for that first year when he has a lot of the fault (plus injuries and probably a lack of quality depth that had developed yet).

Wouldn't there being a lack of quality depth be a foundation to the argument that Kelly didn't necessarily recruit all that well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Cinci...tball_team

There were A LOT of freshmen and sophomores on the 2012 team...enough to hold up a bloated corpse with 9 wins for two more years.

There was also George Winn, McClung, Thompkins, Julian, Longo, Bujnoch, Hooey, Cureton, Munchie/Kay, Travis Freaking Kelce, Annen, Walter Stewert, Jordan Stepp, Dan Giordano, Battle, Cheatham, Frey, Bomar, Pat O'Donnell to name a few. The core of those teams was Kelly players.

(02-10-2020 12:55 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  If UC wants to be any part of future realignment they need to commit all-in on athletics. Make Fick the highest paid G5 coach. $4M plus a substantial bump for his assistants plus a 5 year rolling contract. Pay the man.

I could easily argue Fickel is the best UC football coach in the last 50 years. Back-to-back 11 wins seasons and the highest rated recruiting class in school history . Why would you want to give up someone like that. Even during the BK years we didn't have nowhere close to this level of recruiting. BK was winning with Dantonio's players.

The highest paid G5 is Holgerson @ Houston? An interesting case. I'm guessing the Cougars' sugar daddy Fertitta ponied up the extra dollars to hire him away from P5 West Virginia to make a splash in B12 country. Maybe the same for Sampson in basketball. I would argue Houston's athletic department is way out over its own skis financially because of one extraordinary donor. Otherwise the numbers just don't work in the AAC given the revenue streams we know all too well.

I looked in on #25 ranked/AAC 1st place, Houston's home game last week and there were more empty seats in the lower bowl than full ones. And it's a smaller arena than 5th/3rd. Ditto for their football attendance. So is a contract such as Holgerson's sustainable without massive support from one wealthy donor? I don't know, but I think not.

I'm sure Houston is hoping he doesn't pitch a tantrum tomorrow and walk away because they are spending like a P5 on a G5 budget.

(02-10-2020 02:56 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:43 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 02:32 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Since Gillman it is either Kelly or Luke. I have Kelly ahead as he came with seconds of playing for NCAA Championship.

That's a tough call, because we saw what Kelly's recruiting was like after he left, the cupboard was barer than a baby's ass in Jones' first year. Fickell is clearly gearing up, not tapering off,

Butch won a lot of games with Kelly recruits at the core his 2nd and 3rd seasons. I just have never bought this. I think we give Butch a pretty big pass for that first year when he has a lot of the fault (plus injuries and probably a lack of quality depth that had developed yet).

Wouldn't there being a lack of quality depth be a foundation to the argument that Kelly didn't necessarily recruit all that well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Cinci...tball_team

There were A LOT of freshmen and sophomores on the 2012 team...enough to hold up a bloated corpse with 9 wins for two more years.

There was also George Winn, McClung, Thompkins, Julian, Longo, Bujnoch, Hooey, Cureton, Munchie/Kay, Travis Freaking Kelce, Annen, Walter Stewert, Jordan Stepp, Dan Giordano, Battle, Cheatham, Frey, Bomar, Pat O'Donnell to name a few. The core of those teams was Kelly players.

I agree, they had some solid talent, I just don't think it's comparable at all to what Fickell did in his 3rd season, which was the initial conceit. Also, quite a few of those players named were not Kelly guys. Munchie, McClung, and O'Donnell committed after Jones was brought on in '09-'10 pre-NSD recruiting, Longo transferred into the program in Butch's first spring Frey was a Dantonio recruit (I know, that's weird to think about), and don't forget Jeff Luc and Greg Blair, who were both brought on by Jones and essentially made that defense what it was.

(02-10-2020 03:06 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-10-2020 12:55 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  If UC wants to be any part of future realignment they need to commit all-in on athletics. Make Fick the highest paid G5 coach. $4M plus a substantial bump for his assistants plus a 5 year rolling contract. Pay the man.

I could easily argue Fickel is the best UC football coach in the last 50 years. Back-to-back 11 wins seasons and the highest rated recruiting class in school history . Why would you want to give up someone like that. Even during the BK years we didn't have nowhere close to this level of recruiting. BK was winning with Dantonio's players.

The highest paid G5 is Holgerson @ Houston? An interesting case. I'm guessing the Cougars' sugar daddy Fertitta ponied up the extra dollars to hire him away from P5 West Virginia to make a splash in B12 country. Maybe the same for Sampson in basketball. I would argue Houston's athletic department is way out over its own skis financially because of one extraordinary donor. Otherwise the numbers just don't work in the AAC given the revenue streams we know all too well.

I looked in on #25 ranked/AAC 1st place, Houston's home game last week and there were more empty seats in the lower bowl than full ones. And it's a smaller arena than 5th/3rd. Ditto for their football attendance. So is a contract such as Holgerson's sustainable without massive support from one wealthy donor? I don't know, but I think not.

I'm sure Houston is hoping he doesn't pitch a tantrum tomorrow and walk away because they are spending like a P5 on a G5 budget.

They had a "record" attendance of 7,400 and change for a game there earlier this season...so small time it hurts.