(02-12-2020 04:08 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

Who the heck is Tim Ryan? He clearly did such a good job running for president whenever the hell that happened that I've never heard of him, and I remember Lincoln Chafee was a human being that did attempt to run one time.

Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

Okay, serious question. Not trolling, just curious. You are obviously an ardent Bernie supporter. What is your age group?

Bernie, although 78, tends to draw younger supporters who are passionate, so I just wondered if you fell in that group.

(02-12-2020 04:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

Okay, serious question. Not trolling, just curious. You are obviously an ardent Bernie supporter. What is your age group?

Bernie, although 78, tends to draw younger supporters who are passionate, so I just wondered if you fell in that group.

Not at the youngest end of that spectrum, I'm 33.

As for my ardent Bernie support I readily have admitted on this board over and over again that there are actually a whole lot of things I don't go all the way with Bernie on. I don't really want mass wealth redistribution (although I certainly do believe we've had mass upward wealth redistribution for years since Reagan). I think Medicare for all would be better than what we currently have but if I had my way I'd like to have the Bismarck health care model. Mostly though I believe the DNC is a morally corrupt and incompetent organization that can't be saved. Bernie is literally the only option to change that, either by him winning or them stealing it from him and ending the party as a nationally relevant entity. So what's funny is I'm actually not in disagreement with most here mocking and trashing the DNC. They deserve every bit of it and more. I won't be happy if they broker the convention from Bernie, but it will lead to the necessary death of the party as currently constructed and that needs to happen 1 way or the other.

(02-12-2020 03:54 PM)yankee81 Wrote:  Biden with mayor Pete as his VP could be an interesting ticket


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea, career DC establishment with little to show with his own record other than showing up, meets the McKenzie group guy that's a pretty well despised Mayor of a town the size of some College stadiums.

Ticket punched

if I had to develop odds (which I will at +800), I put Bloomberg/Klob as the 1-2 punch coming out as the combo from a brokered convention in July....

I can't imagine who booty boy would pick as a running mate (or who would accept....maybe his gay lover hubby tubby?)....and there isn't a snowball's the dippos will let 'the bern' take this one from dem....

there's so many goofy scenarios in the land o' donk-donk...

the one constant is this.....they don't have a soul that can defeat #DJTexperiment unless he croaks or is assassinated....

when Cuban bowed out due to 'family veto', it was over before it began.... (even though he initially said he'd run (I), that was bs too....

I would've loved to have seen that battle going into Nov.....

Trump vs. Cuban would've been epic....

(02-12-2020 05:12 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

Okay, serious question. Not trolling, just curious. You are obviously an ardent Bernie supporter. What is your age group?

Bernie, although 78, tends to draw younger supporters who are passionate, so I just wondered if you fell in that group.

Not at the youngest end of that spectrum, I'm 33.

As for my ardent Bernie support I readily have admitted on this board over and over again that there are actually a whole lot of things I don't go all the way with Bernie on. I don't really want mass wealth redistribution (although I certainly do believe we've had mass upward wealth redistribution for years since Reagan). I think Medicare for all would be better than what we currently have but if I had my way I'd like to have the Bismarck health care model. Mostly though I believe the DNC is a morally corrupt and incompetent organization that can't be saved. Bernie is literally the only option to change that, either by him winning or them stealing it from him and ending the party as a nationally relevant entity. So what's funny is I'm actually not in disagreement with most here mocking and trashing the DNC. They deserve every bit of it and more. I won't be happy if they broker the convention from Bernie, but it will lead to the necessary death of the party as currently constructed and that needs to happen 1 way or the other.

Thanks. Appreciate the response.

I actually think all political parties should die, especially the 2 major ones. Just let everybody run on their own merits, and stop the damn voting bloc power grabs. And stop spending like drunken fools.

(02-12-2020 05:40 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  if I had to develop odds (which I will at +800), I put Bloomberg/Klob as the 1-2 punch coming out as the combo from a brokered convention in July....

I can't imagine who booty boy would pick as a running mate (or who would accept....maybe his gay lover hubby tubby?)....and there isn't a snowball's the dippos will let 'the bern' take this one from dem....

there's so many goofy scenarios in the land o' donk-donk...

the one constant is this.....they don't have a soul that can defeat #DJTexperiment unless he croaks or is assassinated....

when Cuban bowed out due to 'family veto', it was over before it began.... (even though he initially said he'd run (I), that was bs too....

I would've loved to have seen that battle going into Nov.....

Trump vs. Cuban would've been epic....

Bloomie/Klob would absolutely kill any support from the Bernie wing of the party.

(02-12-2020 05:12 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

Okay, serious question. Not trolling, just curious. You are obviously an ardent Bernie supporter. What is your age group?

Bernie, although 78, tends to draw younger supporters who are passionate, so I just wondered if you fell in that group.

Not at the youngest end of that spectrum, I'm 33.

As for my ardent Bernie support I readily have admitted on this board over and over again that there are actually a whole lot of things I don't go all the way with Bernie on. I don't really want mass wealth redistribution (although I certainly do believe we've had mass upward wealth redistribution for years since Reagan). I think Medicare for all would be better than what we currently have but if I had my way I'd like to have the Bismarck health care model. Mostly though I believe the DNC is a morally corrupt and incompetent organization that can't be saved. Bernie is literally the only option to change that, either by him winning or them stealing it from him and ending the party as a nationally relevant entity. So what's funny is I'm actually not in disagreement with most here mocking and trashing the DNC. They deserve every bit of it and more. I won't be happy if they broker the convention from Bernie, but it will lead to the necessary death of the party as currently constructed and that needs to happen 1 way or the other.

But you can't deny that Bernie's policies (if actually implemented) would bankrupt the country and completely change our way of life. It would destroy people.

(02-13-2020 01:44 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 05:12 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 04:22 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Ah ok now after googling Tim Ryan I see he was one of the many losers that attempted to run this time, never polled above 1%, and dropped out months ago. That guy clearly understands what the people want.

Okay, serious question. Not trolling, just curious. You are obviously an ardent Bernie supporter. What is your age group?

Bernie, although 78, tends to draw younger supporters who are passionate, so I just wondered if you fell in that group.

Not at the youngest end of that spectrum, I'm 33.

As for my ardent Bernie support I readily have admitted on this board over and over again that there are actually a whole lot of things I don't go all the way with Bernie on. I don't really want mass wealth redistribution (although I certainly do believe we've had mass upward wealth redistribution for years since Reagan). I think Medicare for all would be better than what we currently have but if I had my way I'd like to have the Bismarck health care model. Mostly though I believe the DNC is a morally corrupt and incompetent organization that can't be saved. Bernie is literally the only option to change that, either by him winning or them stealing it from him and ending the party as a nationally relevant entity. So what's funny is I'm actually not in disagreement with most here mocking and trashing the DNC. They deserve every bit of it and more. I won't be happy if they broker the convention from Bernie, but it will lead to the necessary death of the party as currently constructed and that needs to happen 1 way or the other.

But you can't deny that Bernie's policies (if actually implemented) would bankrupt the country and completely change our way of life. It would destroy people.

If every Bernie policy were implemented would it completely change the current American way of life? Yeah I think it would. Would more people in the country be better off than they are now? I think so but honestly it doesn't even really matter because no president ever can or will get every single policy they want passed. Most struggle to get a single policy passed in the form they actually run on once you go thru the process of making the sausage. Do I think Medicare for All is ever actually a passable piece of legislation as voiced by Bernie? Absolutely not, but with anything that's going to end up being negotiated if you start at the position you want to finish at the final product is gonna be far worse than that from your perspective. I've been clear that I'd rather have Bismarck and a UBI vs M4A and drastically increasing the minimum wage (which I know despite sounding good would just spur on massive inflation). To get Bismarck passed it's going to require destroying the insurance industry as it currently exists. It will require shifting public opinion on health care so far towards the Bernie position that the GOP views Bismarck as the compromise position to full government controlled health care.

Even beyond all that I actually would like to have happen policy wise I 100% believe that the DNC as currently lead and constructed is a morally corrupt and incompetent organization that one way or the other has to be destroyed. Whether that destruction is caused by Bernie winning and all these rats losing their access to the levers of party power or it's destroyed because they broker the convention from him and cause a mass revolt that kills the party as a national entity I don't care that much. I'd rather it be from option 1, but if they choose option 2 the party has to die and even though it will lead to probably 20+ years of GOP control of national government it will be the price that has to be paid. I'm happy because I believe we've now reached the point of no return where no Democratic candidate will be able to actually "beat" Bernie and they are either going to have to let him be the nominee or in the full view of public this time, with no way of pretending this is just a "Bernie Bro conspiracy" steal it from him and kill the party.

(02-13-2020 02:56 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If every Bernie policy were implemented would it completely change the current American way of life? Yeah I think it would. Would more people in the country be better off than they are now? I think so

I don't. I see his proposals as extremely destructive. This is the lesson Europe learned the hard way in the 1960s and 1970s. They tried funding their welfare states by taxing the "wealthy" and got capital flight and economic stagnation. My first trip to Europe was in 1973, and I was amazed at how pessimistic everyone seemed to be. The socialist incursions had simply robbed almost everyone of ambition and hope.

Then things began to turn around. They discovered consumption taxes and Reagan/Bill Bradley/Dick Gephardt showed them the advantages of lower and flatter and broader income tax rates. How far and how fast they moved is given by this--when Bill Clinton got through raising taxes, we were still in the lower half of OECD tax rates; when GWB got through lowering them, we were in the top half.

Today I think a lot of Europe is more capitalistic than we are. They have their welfare safety nets, but they also learned the hard way that capital flight takes a big hunk out of your economy. So today they offer both a more comprehensive safety net at the bottom and a more tax-efficient return on investment at the top.

(02-13-2020 04:29 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 02:56 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  If every Bernie policy were implemented would it completely change the current American way of life? Yeah I think it would. Would more people in the country be better off than they are now? I think so

I don't. I see his proposals as extremely destructive. This is the lesson Europe learned the hard way in the 1960s and 1970s. They tried funding their welfare states by taxing the "wealthy" and got capital flight and economic stagnation. My first trip to Europe was in 1973, and I was amazed at how pessimistic everyone seemed to be. The socialist incursions had simply robbed almost everyone of ambition and hope.

Then things began to turn around. They discovered consumption taxes and Reagan/Bill Bradley/Dick Gephardt showed them the advantages of lower and flatter and broader income tax rates. How far and how fast they moved is given by this--when Bill Clinton got through raising taxes, we were still in the lower half of OECD tax rates; when GWB got through lowering them, we were in the top half.

Today I think a lot of Europe is more capitalistic than we are. They have their welfare safety nets, but they also learned the hard way that capital flight takes a big hunk out of your economy. So today they offer both a more comprehensive safety net at the bottom and a more tax-efficient return on investment at the top.

Which in the end is actually what I want (and what I believe I've seen you post you'd ideally want as well) and I'm guessing we just very much disagree on how you shift the overton window enough to get there. I'm actually curious since we kinda want to end up in the same place how you think the best path to get there is? I am of the belief you have no chance to convince the GOP to agree to Bismarck unless it's a last resort to keep from having full universal health care, that they as currently constructed will never willfully vote for it. I'm genuinely curious do you think I'm wrong on that and that you could actually figure out a way to get there by other means?

(02-13-2020 05:06 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I am of the belief you have no chance to convince the GOP to agree to Bismarck unless it's a last resort to keep from having full universal health care, that they as currently constructed will never willfully vote for it.

Which is where I think we are now.

Republicans never cease to amaze me with their stupidity. Heritage gave them a nudge toward something a lot like the Swiss version of Bismarck when they were fighting against Hillarycare in 1993. They could have passed it when they controlled both houses of congress after 1994, Bill Clinton would have signed it so he could take credit for health care reform, and we'd have been spared the last 30 years of crap on this issue.

(02-12-2020 12:38 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The Culinary Union sent out a memo to it's 60,000 members that bernie would rob them of their benefits and health care, and they refuse to endorse a M4A candidate. Welcome to the real world I was telling you about, bonds

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/politics/...index.html

https://twitter.com/SavageJoyMarie1/stat...4867515392

REFUSE TO LOSE

(02-13-2020 05:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 05:06 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I am of the belief you have no chance to convince the GOP to agree to Bismarck unless it's a last resort to keep from having full universal health care, that they as currently constructed will never willfully vote for it.

Which is where I think we are now.

Republicans never cease to amaze me with their stupidity. Heritage gave them a nudge toward something a lot like the Swiss version of Bismarck when they were fighting against Hillarycare in 1993. They could have passed it when they controlled both houses of congress after 1994, Bill Clinton would have signed it so he could take credit for health care reform, and we'd have been spared the last 30 years of crap on this issue.

Yeah, that certainly would have been better for everyone than what we are stuck with now. I simply think Bernie is a necessity to force the logical position on healthcare to finally be agreed to, as McConnell would never agree to Bismarck without it being a last resort to stop universal health care. Bernie will certainly not say this right now (and he'd be dumb to show he'd compromise beforehand) but I feel fairly confident he'd accept a grand Bismarck compromise, but to get to that point it's gonna take pushing all the way to that point of no return. Otherwise, I don't see this ever happening. You would think the GOP could look at this situation and see that they've lost the public opinion battle on this country having so many people uninsured, and especially ensuring coverage for those with preexisting conditions. For as awful and poorly conceived as Obamacare is you aren't swaying public opinion back to having healthcare as it was before.

(02-13-2020 06:07 PM)green Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:38 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The Culinary Union sent out a memo to it's 60,000 members that bernie would rob them of their benefits and health care, and they refuse to endorse a M4A candidate. Welcome to the real world I was telling you about, bonds

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/politics/...index.html

https://twitter.com/SavageJoyMarie1/stat...4867515392

REFUSE TO LOSE

HAHAHAHA

That real-world Kronke was telling me about really crushed me right there.

(02-13-2020 06:28 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 06:07 PM)green Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:38 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The Culinary Union sent out a memo to it's 60,000 members that bernie would rob them of their benefits and health care, and they refuse to endorse a M4A candidate. Welcome to the real world I was telling you about, bonds

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/politics/...index.html

https://twitter.com/SavageJoyMarie1/stat...4867515392

REFUSE TO LOSE

HAHAHAHA

That real-world Kronke was telling me about really crushed me right there.

You're legitimately low IQ. They announced formally what green bolded in my previous post -- they are refusing to endorse. That isn't good for you, that is horrifically bad for the democratic party as a whole. That quote-tweet is just some random sky screamer projecting her feelings as to why.

If the dems can't even get the unions on board, which if it's bernie vs. Trump, and one wants to take their benefits away, while the other's economy is roaring and their members are making more money than they ever have, the general election is over before a single vote is even cast.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-l...1567422002

Great look, bernouts.

(02-13-2020 06:53 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 06:28 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 06:07 PM)green Wrote:  

(02-12-2020 12:38 PM)Kronke Wrote:  The Culinary Union sent out a memo to it's 60,000 members that bernie would rob them of their benefits and health care, and they refuse to endorse a M4A candidate. Welcome to the real world I was telling you about, bonds

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/politics/...index.html

https://twitter.com/SavageJoyMarie1/stat...4867515392

REFUSE TO LOSE

HAHAHAHA

That real-world Kronke was telling me about really crushed me right there.

You're legitimately low IQ. They announced formally what green bolded in my previous post -- they are refusing to endorse. That isn't good for you, that is horrifically bad for the democratic party. That quote-tweet is just some random sky-screamer projecting her feelings as to why.

If the dems can't even get the unions on board, which if it's bernie vs. Trump, and one wants to take their benefits away, while the other's economy is roaring and their members are making more money than they ever have, the general election is over before a single vote is even cast.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-l...1567422002

Since you called me "low IQ" I've gotta ask what are the pro-union positions that the GOP stands for exactly? I'm sure they exist, I'm sure I haven't been just making up in my head the GOP for my entire lifet trying to kill unions, pushing for right to work legislation, trying to end collective bargaining, etc. The GOP has always been the pro-union pro worker party I'm sure.