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Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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Post: #1
Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
quote from ESPN article
""""The MEAC, which will celebrate its 50th year of competition during the 2020-21 academic year, has been on the negative end of conference realignment in recent years -- the biggest blow being N.C. A&T, one of its seven founding institutions. Hampton left the MEAC for the Big South in 2018 and Savannah State departed in 2019 to drop back to Division II.
Following N.C. A&T's departure, the MEAC will have 10 members but only eight for football.""""

For FCS this could force the hands of SWAC, Southland and MEAC members:

The median $ expenditures for FCS in 2018 was $16.4 Million (stats from Knight Commission Report and USAToday articles)

Current MEAC
Norfolk State- no money (I work there too, they have no$) 13.7M
South Carolina State- 5.3M
NC A&T 14.4M leaving for Big South
NC Central 13.8M
Delaware St 14.6M
Florida A&M 11.5M
Morgan State 11.6M
South Carolina St 5.3M

Current Big South
Monmouth (private)
Kennesaw St 26M
Charleston Southern (private)
Campbell (private)
Gardner Webb (private)
Hampton (private)
Presbyterian (private) leaving Big South going to Pioneer (no schollys)
North Alabama (private)

SWAC
Alcorn St (private)
Alabama A&M 10M
Alabama State 13.5M
Jacksonville State 17.7M
MissValley State 4.2M
Southern 13.4M
Prairie View A&M 18.5
Grambling 9.2M
Arkansas Pine Bluff 8.7M
Texas Southern 11.6M

Southland
Central Arkansas 14.2M
Nicholls St 9.6M
SE Louisiana 13.9M
Sam Houston St 19.1
McNesse St (private)
Abilene Christian (private)
Incarnate Word (private)
Northwestern State 13.1M
Stephen F Austin 17.1M
Houston Baptist (private)
Lamar (private)


MY TAKE:
Schools within 15% of the mean average of 16.4M (which is 13.2M) will stick it out in FCS and the rest are off to D2, Presbyterian is probably an exception.
A much larger Big South (the hot take conference in the 2010s) could add NSU, NCCU.
CAA could look at Delaware St and Howard (hard to tell).
Heading to CIAA: FAMU, Morgan St., BCCU, South Carolina State.
Mississippi Valley State gone D2 with Grambling, UAPB, Alcorn (probably), Alabama A&M, Texas Southern.

FCS IMPACTS:
The musical chairs start from down below: Kennesaw State moves to Sun Belt (average $ spent is 28M); JMU goes D1 independent (51M); USM (26M), LaTech (24M) have tough decisions to make.
SWAC dissolves with FCS hold-overs to Southland
MEAC dissolves

Basketball impacts:
2 less conferences would open the stage for the white whale of ODU/JMU/UMASS dreams- an East Coast Conference.
Then the NCAA tourney is 30 conference champions and 34 at-large, much easier on the committee (and another slot to the P5s).
02-08-2020 02:07 PM
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paintedblue2 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 02:07 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  quote from ESPN article
""""The MEAC, which will celebrate its 50th year of competition during the 2020-21 academic year, has been on the negative end of conference realignment in recent years -- the biggest blow being N.C. A&T, one of its seven founding institutions. Hampton left the MEAC for the Big South in 2018 and Savannah State departed in 2019 to drop back to Division II.
Following N.C. A&T's departure, the MEAC will have 10 members but only eight for football.""""

For FCS this could force the hands of SWAC, Southland and MEAC members:

The median $ expenditures for FCS in 2018 was $16.4 Million (stats from Knight Commission Report and USAToday articles)

Current MEAC
Norfolk State- no money (I work there too, they have no$) 13.7M
South Carolina State- 5.3M
NC A&T 14.4M leaving for Big South
NC Central 13.8M
Delaware St 14.6M
Florida A&M 11.5M
Morgan State 11.6M
South Carolina St 5.3M

Current Big South
Monmouth (private)
Kennesaw St 26M
Charleston Southern (private)
Campbell (private)
Gardner Webb (private)
Hampton (private)
Presbyterian (private) leaving Big South going to Pioneer (no schollys)
North Alabama (private)

SWAC
Alcorn St (private)
Alabama A&M 10M
Alabama State 13.5M
Jacksonville State 17.7M
MissValley State 4.2M
Southern 13.4M
Prairie View A&M 18.5
Grambling 9.2M
Arkansas Pine Bluff 8.7M
Texas Southern 11.6M

Southland
Central Arkansas 14.2M
Nicholls St 9.6M
SE Louisiana 13.9M
Sam Houston St 19.1
McNesse St (private)
Abilene Christian (private)
Incarnate Word (private)
Northwestern State 13.1M
Stephen F Austin 17.1M
Houston Baptist (private)
Lamar (private)


MY TAKE:
Schools within 15% of the mean average of 16.4M (which is 13.2M) will stick it out in FCS and the rest are off to D2, Presbyterian is probably an exception.
A much larger Big South (the hot take conference in the 2010s) could add NSU, NCCU.
CAA could look at Delaware St and Howard (hard to tell).
Heading to CIAA: FAMU, Morgan St., BCCU, South Carolina State.
Mississippi Valley State gone D2 with Grambling, UAPB, Alcorn (probably), Alabama A&M, Texas Southern.

FCS IMPACTS:
The musical chairs start from down below: Kennesaw State moves to Sun Belt (average $ spent is 28M); JMU goes D1 independent (51M); USM (26M), LaTech (24M) have tough decisions to make.
SWAC dissolves with FCS hold-overs to Southland
MEAC dissolves

Basketball impacts:
2 less conferences would open the stage for the white whale of ODU/JMU/UMASS dreams- an East Coast Conference.
Then the NCAA tourney is 30 conference champions and 34 at-large, much easier on the committee (and another slot to the P5s).

Isn’t CUSA membership partly predicated on having basketball as a conference sport as well as football? If so, would you think ODU would be willing to strike out in a new east coast conference including JMU, UMass, and others? I’m not too sure about that myself.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 02:31 PM by paintedblue2.)
02-08-2020 02:30 PM
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ODU True Blue Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
Not sure how what your numbers mean. But JMU’s football budget is meet $10million.
02-08-2020 02:33 PM
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
ODU (IMO) would leave in a NY minute if an East Coast Conference with FBS/auto-bid MBB package came a 'callin
02-08-2020 02:35 PM
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
the numbers are for all sports expenditures per Knight Commission/USAToday
02-08-2020 02:36 PM
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ODU True Blue Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
JMU does not have the money to go beyond fcs. In addition they could not afford the other women’s sports.
02-08-2020 02:37 PM
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paintedblue2 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 02:35 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  ODU (IMO) would leave in a NY minute if an East Coast Conference with FBS/auto-bid MBB package came a 'callin

You may well be right. It certainly would provide a significant cost savings, and would likely provide renewed fan interest due to easier travel, more familiarity with programs. Any ideas which programs might consider membership? Any guess as to likelihood of such a conference coming to fruition?
02-08-2020 02:41 PM
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
Whenever I talk to any CUSA media/SID/coaches (and a few SunBelters), everyone asks if ODU is leaving and have no idea why their school is in this combination. The Texans hate travelling this far (and vice versa), UAB, USM, and MTSU aren't sure of their best fit. The Floridas are always complaining that its cold, they only want to play in Florida. WKU and Marshall and Charlotte would leave quicker than a hummingbird's blink if they could (especially East Coast Conf).
02-08-2020 02:49 PM
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Chillie Willie Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 02:30 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  
(02-08-2020 02:07 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  quote from ESPN article
""""The MEAC, which will celebrate its 50th year of competition during the 2020-21 academic year, has been on the negative end of conference realignment in recent years -- the biggest blow being N.C. A&T, one of its seven founding institutions. Hampton left the MEAC for the Big South in 2018 and Savannah State departed in 2019 to drop back to Division II.
Following N.C. A&T's departure, the MEAC will have 10 members but only eight for football.""""

For FCS this could force the hands of SWAC, Southland and MEAC members:

The median $ expenditures for FCS in 2018 was $16.4 Million (stats from Knight Commission Report and USAToday articles)

Current MEAC
Norfolk State- no money (I work there too, they have no$) 13.7M
South Carolina State- 5.3M
NC A&T 14.4M leaving for Big South
NC Central 13.8M
Delaware St 14.6M
Florida A&M 11.5M
Morgan State 11.6M
South Carolina St 5.3M

Current Big South
Monmouth (private)
Kennesaw St 26M
Charleston Southern (private)
Campbell (private)
Gardner Webb (private)
Hampton (private)
Presbyterian (private) leaving Big South going to Pioneer (no schollys)
North Alabama (private)

SWAC
Alcorn St (private)
Alabama A&M 10M
Alabama State 13.5M
Jacksonville State 17.7M
MissValley State 4.2M
Southern 13.4M
Prairie View A&M 18.5
Grambling 9.2M
Arkansas Pine Bluff 8.7M
Texas Southern 11.6M

Southland
Central Arkansas 14.2M
Nicholls St 9.6M
SE Louisiana 13.9M
Sam Houston St 19.1
McNesse St (private)
Abilene Christian (private)
Incarnate Word (private)
Northwestern State 13.1M
Stephen F Austin 17.1M
Houston Baptist (private)
Lamar (private)


MY TAKE:
Schools within 15% of the mean average of 16.4M (which is 13.2M) will stick it out in FCS and the rest are off to D2, Presbyterian is probably an exception.
A much larger Big South (the hot take conference in the 2010s) could add NSU, NCCU.
CAA could look at Delaware St and Howard (hard to tell).
Heading to CIAA: FAMU, Morgan St., BCCU, South Carolina State.
Mississippi Valley State gone D2 with Grambling, UAPB, Alcorn (probably), Alabama A&M, Texas Southern.

FCS IMPACTS:
The musical chairs start from down below: Kennesaw State moves to Sun Belt (average $ spent is 28M); JMU goes D1 independent (51M); USM (26M), LaTech (24M) have tough decisions to make.
SWAC dissolves with FCS hold-overs to Southland
MEAC dissolves

Basketball impacts:
2 less conferences would open the stage for the white whale of ODU/JMU/UMASS dreams- an East Coast Conference.
Then the NCAA tourney is 30 conference champions and 34 at-large, much easier on the committee (and another slot to the P5s).

Isn’t CUSA membership partly predicated on having basketball as a conference sport as well as football? If so, would you think ODU would be willing to strike out in a new east coast conference including JMU, UMass, and others? I’m not too sure about that myself.

Even if a couple of schools move from FCS to FBS, I don’t understand the logic of how the loss of 2 FCS conferences creates a new FBS conference.
02-08-2020 03:14 PM
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
for basketball, a new conference is easy to envision, another G5 football unit is a little harder, but possible. I really see JMU, Kennesaw State on the move which I believe would move the chess pieces around the board.
02-08-2020 03:38 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
I don't think the HBCU conferences are necessarily done for. If the stronger athletic programs (NCCU, Howard, NSU, Alabama State, Alabama A&M, etc.) move on to the Big South or hypothetical UAC, there's still enough programs to sustain two conferences, albeit with smaller rosters. I also presume the MEAC would invite Virginia State to move up, and there may be SWAC moveup opportunities (no clue how many SIAC programs, if any, could fit that bill). They're poorer than most FCS programs but if they mostly play each other in the OOC and/or load up on bodybag games, it won't matter that much.

I think there's a very good chance that the Big South takes two MEAC schools if Kennesaw State and North Alabama move to the UAC for football. It'd be some combination of NCCU, NSU and Howard. Howard is the longest shot because they might want something more Northeast-facing or with better academics. NCCU's issue would be whether the SC and VA schools would be upset with a sixth NC school. But having a core of HBCUs would definitely make Hampton and A&T happy about their move.
02-08-2020 03:50 PM
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HeadsetGuy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
I wonder how long Norfolk State can wait, the JMU doomsday scenario for them too. Don't move and get left behind, move and possibly fail.
02-08-2020 03:55 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 03:55 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  I wonder how long Norfolk State can wait, the JMU doomsday scenario for them too. Don't move and get left behind, move and possibly fail.

I don't remember if it was reported at the time or just widely hinted at, but I remember hearing that NSU only moved up to D1 to keep pace with Hampton. I don't think a return to the CIAA has much appeal to them, even though a lot of the older alum still wish they were playing ECSU, VSU and Union every season.
02-08-2020 04:27 PM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
NSU back to CIAA? I know that would make a lot of old timers happy.Any argument against it?
02-08-2020 04:35 PM
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AimHigh Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
If we say booman 3x he should appear on here! He is a nsu guy
02-08-2020 04:48 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 04:35 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  NSU back to CIAA? I know that would make a lot of old timers happy.Any argument against it?

Loss of NCAA tournament credits and a shot at national fame. NSU probably got more out of that win against Missouri than they'd get in a lifetime of D2. I think the only way they drop back is if they're at a point of no return, like Savannah State (which probably never should have moved up in the first place, similar to Winston-Salem State).

A return to D2 would be an acknowledgement of failure and nobody wants to do that until there's literally no better option.
02-08-2020 04:48 PM
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
To clarify, JMU already meets the standard for FBS and Title IX.
To compete in FBS, a school must compete in at least 16 (JMU competes in 17) varsity sports, including football. Of those 16, at least six (JMU fields the minimum 6) must be men's sports and at least eight (JMU fields 11) must be women's sports.

JMU is under no pressure to move anywhere and quite frankly, after turning down the SBC, I do not believe they are interested whatsoever.
Their academic and athletic programs are healthy, as are their facilities.
Their football is at the pinnacle right now.
Their current conference affords rivalries and, for the most part, acceptable travel.

Additionally, I suspect that the JMU athletic budget is maxed out, and a move up would require approval by the state legislature and scrutiny of student fees. Currently the conference media payouts at G5 are likely not enticing enough to make the JMU admin consider it.

Some say that JMU is waiting for a call from the AAC or a P5.
The AAC seems unlikely and a P5 virtually impossible, both dueto Madison's profile as a Regional institution with minimal doctoral and research.
programs.
The cost of moving up as an indy in football is huge. Liberty did it because it has almost unlimited resources. UMass calculated that A10 rewards would outweigh losses in football.
JMU does not have either Liberty's or UMass' advantages.

The VERY small percentage of the JMU fanbase that makes up the delusional forum posters aside, I honestly don't believe we will see JMU moving up anytime soon, if ever, even for the hypothetical east coast conference.

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 10:01 PM by ODUalum78.)
02-08-2020 09:28 PM
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84Monarch Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-08-2020 09:28 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  To clarify, JMU already meets the standard for FBS and Title IX.
To compete in FBS, a school must compete in at least 16 (JMU competes in 17) varsity sports, including football. Of those 16, at least six (JMU fields the minimum 6) must be men's sports and at least eight (JMU fields 11) must be women's sports.

JMU is under no pressure to move anywhere and quite frankly, after turning down the SBC, I do not believe they are interested whatsoever.
Their academic and athletic programs are healthy, as are their facilities.
Their football is at the pinnacle right now.
Their current conference affords rivalries and, for the most part, acceptable travel.

Additionally, I suspect that the JMU athletic budget is maxed out, and a move up would require approval by the state legislature and scrutiny of student fees. Currently the conference media payouts at G5 are likely not enticing enough to make the JMU admin consider it.

Some say that JMU is waiting for a call from the AAC or a P5.
The AAC seems unlikely and a P5 virtually impossible, both dueto Madison's profile as a Regional institution with minimal doctoral and research.
programs.
The cost of moving up as an indy in football is huge. Liberty did it because it has almost unlimited resources. UMass calculated that A10 rewards would outweigh losses in football.
JMU does not have either Liberty's or UMass' advantages.

The VERY small percentage of the JMU fanbase that makes up the delusional forum posters aside, I honestly don't believe we will see JMU moving up anytime soon, if ever, even for the hypothetical east coast conference.

04-cheers
Alum, I don’t believe they can afford to fully fund 85 scholarships for FBS. The elephant in the room is that JMU makes a living off FBS transfers being able to play immediately. Moving to FBS takes that away. There football relevance would follow. They are stuck with the only option being CAA and FCS playoffs
02-09-2020 09:13 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
(02-09-2020 09:13 AM)84Monarch Wrote:  
(02-08-2020 09:28 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  To clarify, JMU already meets the standard for FBS and Title IX.
To compete in FBS, a school must compete in at least 16 (JMU competes in 17) varsity sports, including football. Of those 16, at least six (JMU fields the minimum 6) must be men's sports and at least eight (JMU fields 11) must be women's sports.

JMU is under no pressure to move anywhere and quite frankly, after turning down the SBC, I do not believe they are interested whatsoever.
Their academic and athletic programs are healthy, as are their facilities.
Their football is at the pinnacle right now.
Their current conference affords rivalries and, for the most part, acceptable travel.

Additionally, I suspect that the JMU athletic budget is maxed out, and a move up would require approval by the state legislature and scrutiny of student fees. Currently the conference media payouts at G5 are likely not enticing enough to make the JMU admin consider it.

Some say that JMU is waiting for a call from the AAC or a P5.
The AAC seems unlikely and a P5 virtually impossible, both dueto Madison's profile as a Regional institution with minimal doctoral and research.
programs.
The cost of moving up as an indy in football is huge. Liberty did it because it has almost unlimited resources. UMass calculated that A10 rewards would outweigh losses in football.
JMU does not have either Liberty's or UMass' advantages.

The VERY small percentage of the JMU fanbase that makes up the delusional forum posters aside, I honestly don't believe we will see JMU moving up anytime soon, if ever, even for the hypothetical east coast conference.

04-cheers
Alum, I don’t believe they can afford to fully fund 85 scholarships for FBS. The elephant in the room is that JMU makes a living off FBS transfers being able to play immediately. Moving to FBS takes that away. There football relevance would follow. They are stuck with the only option being CAA and FCS playoffs

Exactly!
02-09-2020 09:38 AM
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DaBigBlue Offline
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RE: Death of MEAC starts another round of dominos?
The thing that also hurts JMU from moving up to FBS, is the Cox's Bill. While it hit us hard, it would hurt JMU in moving up. First they would need General Assembly approval to move up and then they would need to reduce their dependence of student fees, which is subsidised at 81%. Add $2-4 million fee to the new conference and add a $1.25 million exit fee to CAA.
02-09-2020 10:04 AM
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