(02-05-2020 12:42 PM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:26 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Michigan St has never won a NC from both the AP and Coaches Poll or by any other generally recognized measure (eg., BCS) in the same year. Michigan St won the NC in 1965 (Coaches Poll only) and 1952 (AP only).

Michigan St is at a significant disadvantage in the B-10. It will be unusual to beat out Ohio St, Mich, Wisc, and Penn St in a given year.

If Sabin could not win the NC at Mich St, then it is very unlikely any other coach could achieve the feat.

Did you not see what I posted? Michigan St. made the playoffs. The college football championship final four playoffs! Vatech has never won a national championship or even made the playoffs. Of the B10 schools you listed only OSU has made the playoffs. Since the beginning of the CFP the only Big10 team not named Ohio State has been Michigan St.

Is it easy to win a natty with MSU? Of course not. But I don't think it is easy for any school

It is easier to win the NC for VT and FSU in the ACC than Mich St in the Big 10 over time. If you do not see it, then we will just have to disagree.

(02-05-2020 12:51 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:42 PM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:26 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Michigan St has never won a NC from both the AP and Coaches Poll or by any other generally recognized measure (eg., BCS) in the same year. Michigan St won the NC in 1965 (Coaches Poll only) and 1952 (AP only).

Michigan St is at a significant disadvantage in the B-10. It will be unusual to beat out Ohio St, Mich, Wisc, and Penn St in a given year.

If Sabin could not win the NC at Mich St, then it is very unlikely any other coach could achieve the feat.

Did you not see what I posted? Michigan St. made the playoffs. The college football championship final four playoffs! Vatech has never won a national championship or even made the playoffs. Of the B10 schools you listed only OSU has made the playoffs. Since the beginning of the CFP the only Big10 team not named Ohio State has been Michigan St.

Is it easy to win a natty with MSU? Of course not. But I don't think it is easy for any school

It is easier to win the NC for VT and FSU in the ACC than Mich St in the Big 10 over time. If you do not see it, then we will just have to disagree.

I am not arguing agaisnt FSU...

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

(02-05-2020 01:20 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

Also, Luke Fickell doesn't have an agent like most high profile coaches so that helps.

I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

https://footballscoop.com/news/early-update-on-the-search-at-michigan-state/

Quote from article:

Quote:Today is signing day so keep that in mind; but sources tell FootballScoop Luke Fickell has already evaluated the opportunity and is not inclined to jump at this time. Could that change, if following their search Michigan State officials determine they have to pay up to get Fickell?

I think it's important to distinguish that this DOES NOT mean he is staying, but it's a good first indication. I doubt any final decisions have been made.

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

This is almost as important as BDF himself leaving is who would he take with him? Most UC fans would be ecstatic if OC Denbrock left and Gino Guidugli was elevated at UC (Prater has mentioned Gino is the one he connected with most). Gino and Freeman are big recruiters so keep them and we wouldn't lose much.. What about RB coach Doug Phillips? That'd be a big loss along with Mike Mickens.. could we elevate him to DC?

That article is really strong.. now he needs to have an honest conversation with Prater and the others. Prater told the Enquirer he hasn't heard from coach and doesn't want to be in his ear too much over BDF's decision.

(02-05-2020 01:49 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

This is almost as important as BDF himself leaving is who would he take with him? Most UC fans would be ecstatic if OC Denbrock left and Gino Guidugli was elevated at UC (Prater has mentioned Gino is the one he connected with most). Gino and Freeman are big recruiters so keep them and we wouldn't lose much.. What about RB coach Doug Phillips? That'd be a big loss along with Mike Mickens.. could we elevate him to DC?

That article is really strong.. now he needs to have an honest conversation with Prater and the others. Prater told the Enquirer he hasn't heard from coach and doesn't want to be in his ear too much over BDF's decision.

I think the natural thing would be if Fickell left, that Gino and Mickens became the coordinators, which would be awesome on so many levels. I don't know if Freeman would go with Fickell or not, but I'd like to think we'd make a run at him as HC and he'd find it a worthwhile prospect.

(02-05-2020 01:57 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:49 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

This is almost as important as BDF himself leaving is who would he take with him? Most UC fans would be ecstatic if OC Denbrock left and Gino Guidugli was elevated at UC (Prater has mentioned Gino is the one he connected with most). Gino and Freeman are big recruiters so keep them and we wouldn't lose much.. What about RB coach Doug Phillips? That'd be a big loss along with Mike Mickens.. could we elevate him to DC?

That article is really strong.. now he needs to have an honest conversation with Prater and the others. Prater told the Enquirer he hasn't heard from coach and doesn't want to be in his ear too much over BDF's decision.

I think the natural thing would be if Fickell left, that Gino and Mickens became the coordinators, which would be awesome on so many levels. I don't know if Freeman would go with Fickell or not, but I'd like to think we'd make a run at him as HC and he'd find it a worthwhile prospect.

Rumor is first choice was Matt Campbell. Cyclones stay strong as he reportedly turned it down.

https://247sports.com/college/iowa-state...143377334/

(02-05-2020 01:20 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

I think we have a miscommunication - a common occurrence on a message board void of clues from body language and tone.

I will restate. IMO, Mich St is not much of a step up from Cincy, other than money. It is only slightly easier (because they are a P5 school) to win a NC at Mich St. than Cincy.

I agree actions speak louder than words. If he takes the Mich St job where chances of winning a NC are slim, then his actions say more money is more important to him than a NC. If money is not the priority, then he should stay at Cincy and wait for a better job than Mich St that offers both a bigger paycheck and enhanced NC opportunities.

(02-05-2020 01:20 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The Tiger's last two coaches left because (besides money) it is possible to win a NC at Virginia Tech and especially Fl St. If Fickell takes the Mich St job, the only reason is money.

Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

As an outside observer, I've always felt what you said about Fickell being different was spot on. Dude just doesn't seem to care too much about the spotlight, just winning. Throw in the fact he's got ties to the area, and I personally don't see him leaving.

Hope he doesn't, and stays at Cincy for another decade. Would go a long way to solidifying the Cincy football brand (as well as the brand of the conference) to have Cincy consistently winning 10+ games per year.

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

BDF?

I also saw earlier that Freeman turned down the Titans. Any Bearcat fans think there might be something to that?

They ought to give their D Coordinator, Tressell, a look, although he might be embroiled in the scandal as well.

(02-05-2020 03:50 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

BDF?

I also saw earlier that Freeman turned down the Titans. Any Bearcat fans think there might be something to that?

BDF = A nickname of sorts for Fickell. Stands for Big D*ck Fick. Started after he went for it twice on 4th down in UCLA territory in the opening game at the Rose Bowl last year. Set the tone for the season.

(02-05-2020 03:50 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:40 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:36 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I wouldn't blame him for leaving, but I think he should stay. My reasoning is selfish though for the sake of the conference. The timing is not good and if/when Fickell leaves I would like to see CIN be in a better place for a transition. That said I remember the TV guys talking up Marcus Freeman a lot during one of the games against Memphis so maybe CIN would still be ok.

I would feel pretty darn good about BDF2 if BDF1 left. Above all, his recruiting ties are extremely strong.

BDF?

I also saw earlier that Freeman turned down the Titans. Any Bearcat fans think there might be something to that?

Vrabel and Fickel are tight. Freeman was offered the LB job on Vrabel’s staff. He turned it down this past week. I think he has his sights set on a college head coaching gig next year. I’m actually surprised he didn’t take a job this offseason.

(02-05-2020 03:13 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:20 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

I think we have a miscommunication - a common occurrence on a message board void of clues from body language and tone.

I will restate. IMO, Mich St is not much of a step up from Cincy, other than money. It is only slightly easier (because they are a P5 school) to win a NC at Mich St. than Cincy.

I agree actions speak louder than words. If he takes the Mich St job where chances of winning a NC are slim, then his actions say more money is more important to him than a NC. If money is not the priority, then he should stay at Cincy and wait for a better job than Mich St that offers both a bigger paycheck and enhanced NC opportunities.

I think we disagree on the bolded, which is perfectly fine. MSU has won the Big Ten 3 times in the past decade. They bring in more revenue than all but 12 schools. It's not a blue blood, but it's an extremely powerful player in college athletics.

(02-05-2020 03:13 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 01:20 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 12:37 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:38 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-05-2020 10:34 AM)Ocalabull Wrote:  Uh Michigan State made the playoff in 2015...

Yeah, that's a weird statement to make. Based on Fickell's own comments in The Athletic, if he takes another job, it will be to win a NC, not for money.

What coaches say and what they do concerning jobs is often entirely contradictory.

Relying on a coach's word is a perilous risk, IMO.

However, Fickell's credence will be elevated if he turns down an offered Mich St. job.

I'm not taking him at his word about staying or anything. He didn't come out and say "I'm staying/I'm not going to leave".

Fickell is just built a lot differently. And when I say that, I mean he's more forthright. He's said he may leave, he hasn't tried to play the usual game of just blindly saying he's committed here as a rah rah type thing.

I actually think he's more likely to take the MSU job, but what I'm saying is that coaches are motivated by different things. You can see it in their actions, not by their words. Fickell is more motivated by a drive to succeed, not by money.

The notion that he would take a job for money and that he isn't concerned with being able to compete for a championship is the part of your statement I disagree with.

I think we have a miscommunication - a common occurrence on a message board void of clues from body language and tone.

I will restate. IMO, Mich St is not much of a step up from Cincy, other than money. It is only slightly easier (because they are a P5 school) to win a NC at Mich St. than Cincy.

I agree actions speak louder than words. If he takes the Mich St job where chances of winning a NC are slim, then his actions say more money is more important to him than a NC. If money is not the priority, then he should stay at Cincy and wait for a better job than Mich St that offers both a bigger paycheck and enhanced NC opportunities.

Your opinion is wrong. Let me say this again, Michigan State played in a College Football PLAYOFF game! They did that going in to the playoffs with 1 loss. ucf(which is equal to Cincy) went undefeated two years in a row and were not close to being invited to the playoffs.

It is virtually impossible for any AAC team to win a national championship in the current set up.

Also, since 2011 Michigan State has been to 3 Big10 Championship games and winning 2! Penn State has only won 1-1. Michigan has never even been.

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that you can't win a national championship at Michigan State. Dantonio was close to doing it with mostly 3-star players. You get a coach in there who can recruit at a higher level, they could absolutely win it all.