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If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #41
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-06-2020 01:50 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 01:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.


There is a glut of inventory and the games are long and slow. I watch the Braves a fair bit but it is on as background noise. When I hear cheering I'll pause it... rewind 10 seconds ... and watch the 30 seconds of actual action. In a 3-4 hour baseball telecast there's about 5 minutes of real action.

Oh man, 538 just recently had the perfect article for this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how...broadcast/

[Image: Hxpk42p.png]

I agree with a lot of the premises, but I don't like their definition of action. There's an awful lot of time in soccer when the ball is slowly advanced up/down the pitch and ball is nowhere near a scoring location. If you're running the hurry up in football there is no down time while the game clock is stopped it's still 100% full speed.

That's true, although their definition of action has similar flaws for every sport, because it includes football plays on which someone runs into the line for no gain or runs the clock out at the end of the half with kneeldowns, baseball plays when the pitcher gives an intentional walk or makes a routine throw to first with a runner on base, etc., etc.

The percentage of commercial time in each sport's telecasts is useful, though.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2020 02:06 PM by Wedge.)
02-06-2020 02:05 PM
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e-parade Offline
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Post: #42
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-06-2020 02:05 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 01:50 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 01:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.


There is a glut of inventory and the games are long and slow. I watch the Braves a fair bit but it is on as background noise. When I hear cheering I'll pause it... rewind 10 seconds ... and watch the 30 seconds of actual action. In a 3-4 hour baseball telecast there's about 5 minutes of real action.

Oh man, 538 just recently had the perfect article for this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how...broadcast/

[Image: Hxpk42p.png]

I agree with a lot of the premises, but I don't like their definition of action. There's an awful lot of time in soccer when the ball is slowly advanced up/down the pitch and ball is nowhere near a scoring location. If you're running the hurry up in football there is no down time while the game clock is stopped it's still 100% full speed.

That's true, although their definition of action has similar flaws for every sport, because it includes football plays on which someone runs into the line for no gain or runs the clock out at the end of the half with kneeldowns, baseball plays when the pitcher gives an intentional walk or makes a routine throw to first with a runner on base, etc., etc.

The percentage of commercial time in each sport's telecasts is useful, though.

Yeah it's all fair there. But it does get the comparison in there about which games have more of their time spent with action than others. I'm not sure anyone will argue that MLB has more action than the NHL for instance. MLB and NFL are super close in their time here, but I think more of us would argue for the NFL having more action thanks to pre-snap movements and calls and whatnot.
02-06-2020 02:24 PM
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Post: #43
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 09:47 AM)No Bull Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

It is an easy answer Think of the number 3.

Thats not a correct answer though. Nascar's highest ratings were from 2005-2006, half a decade after his death.
02-08-2020 01:48 PM
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Post: #44
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-08-2020 01:48 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 09:47 AM)No Bull Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

It is an easy answer Think of the number 3.

Thats not a correct answer though. Nascar's highest ratings were from 2005-2006, half a decade after his death.

Yeah, NASCAR got more popular in the 5 years post-Earnhardt. So it’s not that.
02-08-2020 04:06 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #45
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?
Chase for the Cup, Toyota finding its way in, an increase in caution flags and none of the drivers having any star power. Others are right about the demographic changes, rural or poor older whites are poison to TV execs. Still, NASCAR could have stayed as big of a deal as it was in the 90s at least if they didn't go messing with the formula and kept Toyota out. The fans tend to be pretty patriotic, if not fans of Chevy or Ford, and it's a bit of a gut punch to watch your favorite driver jump to a Japanese marque.

I only know a few NASCAR fans, but the ones I do know gave up on it and decided to start following NHRA instead.
02-09-2020 09:09 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #46
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
With 14 team playoff and possibly extending the season to move later into February, there will simply be NO ROOM for semifinal games on weekends after New Years. You would have to play them Thursday and Friday.

So say goodbye to the 8 team playoff unless they play the first round Christmas week or the week prior, setting up the semis as currently constituted.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2020 06:56 AM by RUScarlets.)
02-20-2020 06:56 AM
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Post: #47
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 06:56 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  With 14 team playoff and possibly extending the season to move later into February, there will simply be NO ROOM for semifinal games on weekends after New Years. You would have to play them Thursday and Friday.

So say goodbye to the 8 team playoff unless they play the first round Christmas week or the week prior, setting up the semis as currently constituted.

Hmm. We don’t know what’s going to happen to the 17-game proposal yet. But the playoff expansion is not major.

Look at this year’s schedule: https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/editorial-...f-schedule

To get to 14 teams, you would also play a Saturday early afternoon game and a Sunday evening game in the wildcard round. The divisional round would stay the same.

I suppose the hope is maybe that if the season gets extended a week, then the last Saturday of the regular season would be in January and could be open.
02-20-2020 07:33 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #48
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
Yes, if week 17 is pushed back into first or 2nd weekend of January there may be a path forward for a one week turnaround or less between the New Year’s quarterfinal bowls and the semis the following Saturday. But it’s lightning quick turn around.

Also will the semis be neutral site or campus site?
02-20-2020 08:05 AM
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Post: #49
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 12:25 PM)e-parade Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 07:25 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 05:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 11:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 07:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is the NFL aware that if they choose to make the regular season last into January that they are going to have far more games in frigid conditions in places like Green Bay, Cleveland, Buffalo, New England, and Denver?

They’d be far better off starting the season earlier and permitting more prime time games for warm weather teams who play outdoors like Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, LA, Carolina, etc.

There will never be any brand new Open air NFL stadium proposed ever again in northern NFL cities. From now on , they will all be either retractable roof, like in Indy, or the new trendy translucent roofs, like in Minny.

Outside of Buffalo, I can't think of a northern NFL team that doesn't have a new stadium or massively overhauled their old one in the last 20 years.

Right, they are not going to build new indoor stadiums tomorrow if a 17 game schedule is approved and the regular season is pushed into mid-January.

But when the time comes, maybe 10-15 years from now, to consider building a new stadium, there will be a strong push for something with a roof. When 1/3 of a team's regular schedule is played in late November to Mid-January, plus playoffs in late January, it's ridiculous to make the average fan sit in the cold for so many games.

I disagree with this assessment. Unless there's bad enough weather that it results in games being canceled, people will still go and pack the stadiums.

The playoffs already happen in these conditions, and the coldest month of the year (on average) in Massachusetts is January. The Super Bowl is already in February, so the conditions would be getting better at that point.

Northern fans call that "football weather".

It won't hurt you none.
02-20-2020 09:52 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #50
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 06:56 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  With 14 team playoff and possibly extending the season to move later into February, there will simply be NO ROOM for semifinal games on weekends after New Years. You would have to play them Thursday and Friday.

So say goodbye to the 8 team playoff unless they play the first round Christmas week or the week prior, setting up the semis as currently constituted.

That's not true at all. The pushback of the NFL season means that 1 or 2 Saturdays that are at least one week after New Year's Day will be open for the CFP semifinals without NFL conflicts (as the Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in the month). The proposed expanded NFL schedule would actually be perfect for setting up a "January Madness" for the CFP.

Once again: TV, TV, TV. I'll repeat again: TV, TV, TV.

College football playoff games are MUCH more valuable in January than they are in December (especially around Christmas) for maximizing TV revenue. I can't emphasize that enough (and I think too many fans are ignoring that obvious point). If/when the CFP expands to 8 teams, it's not about the traveling fans, shortening the schedule or any other consideration other than TV, TV, TV.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2020 12:48 PM by Frank the Tank.)
02-20-2020 12:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #51
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The pushback of the NFL season means that 1 or 2 Saturdays that are at least one week after New Year's Day will be open for the CFP semifinals without NFL conflicts (as the Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in the month). The proposed expanded NFL schedule would actually be perfect for setting up a "January Madness" for the CFP.

The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based on recent NFL scheduling, the only late-season Saturday that is almost certain to be free of NFL games is the one on the last weekend of the regular season, because the NFL now wants all last week games on Sunday.
02-20-2020 01:19 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 01:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The pushback of the NFL season means that 1 or 2 Saturdays that are at least one week after New Year's Day will be open for the CFP semifinals without NFL conflicts (as the Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in the month). The proposed expanded NFL schedule would actually be perfect for setting up a "January Madness" for the CFP.

The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based on recent NFL scheduling, the only late-season Saturday that is almost certain to be free of NFL games is the one on the last weekend of the regular season, because the NFL now wants all last week games on Sunday.

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.
02-20-2020 02:22 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #53
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 02:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 01:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The pushback of the NFL season means that 1 or 2 Saturdays that are at least one week after New Year's Day will be open for the CFP semifinals without NFL conflicts (as the Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in the month). The proposed expanded NFL schedule would actually be perfect for setting up a "January Madness" for the CFP.

The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based on recent NFL scheduling, the only late-season Saturday that is almost certain to be free of NFL games is the one on the last weekend of the regular season, because the NFL now wants all last week games on Sunday.

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.

That would be compatible with CFP quarterfinals on 1/1, semifinals on 1/11, final on 1/20 or 1/21 (Monday or Tuesday).
02-20-2020 02:29 PM
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Post: #54
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 01:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.

This is my anecdotal observation, but I think the issue with the NBA is it lacks the ability to capture the casual fan.

There are obviously tons of people watching it as evidenced by their last TV contract, but I honestly don't know anyone who watches the NBA on occasion. I know some people who love it and then you've got people like me who couldn't care less.

There doesn't appear to a middle ground. It seems most sports do a better job of appealing to a wider audience although that doesn't necessarily mean they garner a larger audience at all times.
02-20-2020 03:07 PM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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Post: #55
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 02:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.

What would happen to the American divorce rate when Super Bowl Sunday falls on Valentine’s Day?
02-20-2020 03:16 PM
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Post: #56
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 03:16 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 02:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.

What would happen to the American divorce rate when Super Bowl Sunday falls on Valentine’s Day?

it never would. It would always be Presidents Day Sunday which would be between Feb 15-21.
02-20-2020 03:29 PM
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Post: #57
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 03:16 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 02:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.

What would happen to the American divorce rate when Super Bowl Sunday falls on Valentine’s Day?

This is clearly a lawyer's conspiracy.

Actually, that's the week the Pro Bowl should be played since no one gives a crap.
02-20-2020 03:30 PM
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Post: #58
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 03:29 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 03:16 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(02-20-2020 02:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The Saturday NFL playoff games will be later in January if the Super Bowl is pushed back to late February -- but there is nothing preventing the NFL from playing regular season games on Saturdays in January. Based

don't think it'll be moved to late February.

take the 2019 season-
Last Sunday for NFL- 1/12
Wild Card weekend 1/18-19
Divisional round 1/25-26
Conf. Championship games 2/2
Super Bowl 2/16

Would expect the 1/5 weekend to be pretty much normal, with a Thursday night game on 1/2, and then quite possibly Saturday games on the 4th.

The only Saturday in January with no NFL would be 1/11.

What would happen to the American divorce rate when Super Bowl Sunday falls on Valentine’s Day?

it never would. It would always be Presidents Day Sunday which would be between Feb 15-21.

The Sunday before Washington's Birthday would be great. Government and bank employees mostly have that Monday off, would suck for retail employees since not going to get Monday off.
02-20-2020 03:36 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
Let's say the NFL goes to a 17 game schedule with 2 byes. The current 2020 schedule has Week 17 on Sun. Jan. 3. Week 18's Sunday would be Sun. Jan. 10. If the NFL wants a MNF game in Week 18, that would be the same day as the current college football national championship. If the NFL said to college football we want to play on MNF in Week 18 but we're willing to let you have the Saturday night that weekend for the college football national championship, would that be better for college football?
02-20-2020 04:22 PM
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RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-20-2020 04:22 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Let's say the NFL goes to a 17 game schedule with 2 byes. The current 2020 schedule has Week 17 on Sun. Jan. 3. Week 18's Sunday would be Sun. Jan. 10. If the NFL wants a MNF game in Week 18, that would be the same day as the current college football national championship. If the NFL said to college football we want to play on MNF in Week 18 but we're willing to let you have the Saturday night that weekend for the college football national championship, would that be better for college football?

NFL doesn't play MNF games final week of the season.
02-20-2020 05:05 PM
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