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If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.
02-05-2020 11:22 AM
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Post: #22
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
My anecdotal observation is much the same. People who work sports bars in Joliet right by Chicagoland Speedway hate when NASCAR comes to town because those people don't tip and without tips they're making ~$5.50
02-05-2020 11:37 AM
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Post: #23
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?
Their #1 problem is they moved races out of fan base areas.

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02-05-2020 11:47 AM
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Post: #24
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 07:25 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 05:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 11:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 07:04 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is the NFL aware that if they choose to make the regular season last into January that they are going to have far more games in frigid conditions in places like Green Bay, Cleveland, Buffalo, New England, and Denver?

They’d be far better off starting the season earlier and permitting more prime time games for warm weather teams who play outdoors like Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, LA, Carolina, etc.

There will never be any brand new Open air NFL stadium proposed ever again in northern NFL cities. From now on , they will all be either retractable roof, like in Indy, or the new trendy translucent roofs, like in Minny.

Outside of Buffalo, I can't think of a northern NFL team that doesn't have a new stadium or massively overhauled their old one in the last 20 years.

Right, they are not going to build new indoor stadiums tomorrow if a 17 game schedule is approved and the regular season is pushed into mid-January.

But when the time comes, maybe 10-15 years from now, to consider building a new stadium, there will be a strong push for something with a roof. When 1/3 of a team's regular schedule is played in late November to Mid-January, plus playoffs in late January, it's ridiculous to make the average fan sit in the cold for so many games.

I disagree with this assessment. Unless there's bad enough weather that it results in games being canceled, people will still go and pack the stadiums.

The playoffs already happen in these conditions, and the coldest month of the year (on average) in Massachusetts is January. The Super Bowl is already in February, so the conditions would be getting better at that point.
02-05-2020 12:25 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.
02-05-2020 01:04 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #26
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
I actually found some great demographic info (age, race/ethnicity, gender, income) for the Nielsen viewership of the NBA, MLB, NHL, NASCAR, golf, college football bowls, NCAA Tournament and MLS here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...ns/283626/

It's data from 2012-13, but the age 2-17 and age 18-34 ranges from that time are pretty close to tracking with the Generation Z and Millennial generations, respectively. You can see where the interest from young people back then are now translating into a different sports pecking order today.

It essentially backs up my anecdotal observation: at that time, only 14% of NASCAR viewers were under the age of 34 (which effectively constitutes today's under 40 crowd), which was the lowest of any of the sports that they evaluated with the exception of golf at 12%. In contrast, 45% of NBA viewers at the time were under the age of 34 (and that's coming from a much higher number of sheer viewers), which is why I've long said that if I was a multi-billionaire, the best long-term pro sports investment out there is to buy an NBA team. Even MLB was at 24% of their viewers being under the age of 34 at the time.

Meanwhile, NASCAR also had the lowest percentage of over $100,000 income viewers of the sports that they evaluated at 14%. In contrast, golf had 27% of its viewers with over $100,000 in income. Interestingly, the NHL actually had the highest percentage of six figure income viewers at 33%.

Essentially, NASCAR didn't attract younger members of the Millennials and Generation Z back then, which means they're much more unlikely to be watching NASCAR today when they now are starting or in the middle of their careers earning higher incomes. Meanwhile, NASCAR is the worst of the sports evaluated at attracting higher income viewers.

There isn't a more toxic combo to TV executives than old low income viewers. They worship young high income viewers (and pay massive premiums to reach those specific people) and can tolerate old high income viewers and young low income viewers... but there's no upside at all to concentrate on old low income viewers. Looking at that data, it's not a shock that mainstream outlets are spending less of their capital (both time and money) on NASCAR compared to other sports.

To be sure, there's still value to NASCAR as a live event along with historically strong branding and advertising tie-ins that go beyond other sports (where ads on cars and uniforms are unabashedly front and center), but it is going from what was a close-to-mainstream sport in the early-2000s to a more niche sport like boxing or its Indy Car counterparts.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2020 01:21 PM by Frank the Tank.)
02-05-2020 01:12 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.
02-05-2020 01:19 PM
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Post: #28
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 01:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.

#freehongkong lol
02-05-2020 01:32 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 01:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.

I don't hate the NBA, I watch it and enjoy. It's a Twitter creation that it is extremely popular sports league. National TV ratings are down. And the best metric for the local TV deals - their ratings are behind MLB teams. MLB teams crush local tv across all markets.
02-05-2020 04:02 PM
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Post: #30
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-03-2020 08:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 12:21 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2861...on-new-cba

Does that leave enough room for a NYD quarterfinal and Saturday semifinal without NFL interference?

They could just add it on at the beginning of the season and get rid of an exhibition game.

Pretty sure that the individual owners own all the rights and revenue for exhibition games without sharing with the other teams i.e. getting rid of an exhibition game is not an easy task.
02-05-2020 04:42 PM
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Post: #31
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-03-2020 11:51 AM)Pir8inRichmond Wrote:  NFL needs another playoff team too. Add 1 more for 7 on each side, and only one bye per conference.
Yuck. Just send the top 2 from each division if they're going to expand.
02-05-2020 04:50 PM
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Post: #32
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

The most significant driver of the NASCAR surge era died on the track at the Daytona 500, the biggest event of the year in the sport.

Three years later, NASCAR wanted to bring more drama to the championship and wanted to make the last race of the series matter (ie basically preventing a driver from clinching the Cup before the end of the season) and that was successful, no one has clinched before the final race since then but a lot of fans despise the system.

A number of popular drivers retired and no one captured their fan bases.
02-05-2020 05:48 PM
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Post: #33
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-03-2020 11:41 PM)The Big O Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 03:00 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Kick Daytona out of that Sunday. They can run the race on Saturday and make it a single day if it isn't already. Otherwise bump them up a week, or sandwich it alongside the Pro Bowl.

None of those things will happen. NASCAR is already in the process of shortening its schedule by way of double headers and eliminating some tracks that have two dates in the coming years. Daytona will always be after the NFL season ends.
Daytona also has a whole series of races surrounding it and a unique qualification in that pole qualifying only settles the front row while the other spots are contingent on where you place in the Twin 150's.
02-05-2020 06:31 PM
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RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 04:02 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  And the best metric for the local TV deals - their ratings are behind MLB teams. MLB teams crush local tv across all markets.

Yeah, when my late Dad went into the nursing home, he had a baseball game on the TV if there was a baseball game on. Given the demo figures that Frank the Tank referred to, I can well believe that MLB overall ratings are good.

I also believe they are not necessarily that great in "the demo".
02-05-2020 07:32 PM
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RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 04:02 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.

I don't hate the NBA, I watch it and enjoy. It's a Twitter creation that it is extremely popular sports league. National TV ratings are down. And the best metric for the local TV deals - their ratings are behind MLB teams. MLB teams crush local tv across all markets.

The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.
02-05-2020 11:46 PM
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Post: #36
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 11:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.


There is a glut of inventory and the games are long and slow. I watch the Braves a fair bit but it is on as background noise. When I hear cheering I'll pause it... rewind 10 seconds ... and watch the 30 seconds of actual action. In a 3-4 hour baseball telecast there's about 5 minutes of real action.
02-06-2020 10:17 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 07:32 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 04:02 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  And the best metric for the local TV deals - their ratings are behind MLB teams. MLB teams crush local tv across all markets.

Yeah, when my late Dad went into the nursing home, he had a baseball game on the TV if there was a baseball game on. Given the demo figures that Frank the Tank referred to, I can well believe that MLB overall ratings are good.

I also believe they are not necessarily that great in "the demo".

Oh, I agree with what both of you are saying as I watch a ton of both MLB and the NBA. MLB's strength is in local markets and the regional loyalty towards their franchises, whereas the NBA is a more nationalized sport that is more player-driven.

There are positive and negative aspects to both. MLB fans are generally more loyal - Cubs fans are going to watch the Cubs whether they are good or bad and there's a floor of interest there that's higher compared to the Bulls. The main issue that MLB has been facing over the past decade or so is that it's *very* reliant on a handful of marquee franchises - mainly the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs - for national interest. It's like the old Jerry Seinfeld bit about "rooting for laundry": if the players on the Rays simply put on Yankees uniforms, those players would all of the sudden become really high profile.

The NBA doesn't engender that same type of loyalty to franchises. So, local interest is going to vary much more wildly depending upon performance - the Sixers had the worst attendance in the NBA just a few years ago while going through "The Process", but now they're #1 in the NBA today when they're on the upswing. On the other hand, individual marquee *players* is what drives interest in the NBA and, as a result, that naturally nationalizes the sport more. It doesn't matter whether LeBron plays in a small market like Cleveland or in a top tier market like Los Angeles: the ratings show that people will want to watch *LeBron* wherever he might be. Basketball is a game where having a marquee player is very directly correlated to performance on-the-court, as well, so it's a much higher likelihood that you're going to get to watch those marquee players deep into the playoffs.

I'm probably a perfect example of this. I'll watch tons of White Sox and Cubs games no matter how they might be doing in a given season. However, I don't go out of my way to watch the MLB playoffs if they're not participating - I'll watch the World Series when it's on, but I don't plan my days or evening around it in the way that I did when I was growing up.

In contrast, it's *really* tough for me to watch the Bulls with the way that they are performing right now... and I love the Bulls as someone that got to spend my entire youth (from kindergarten through college) witnessing Michael Jordan firsthand. (If I could have one dream job in my life, it would honestly be General Manager for the Bulls.) Even the worst MLB teams will generally win over 40% of their games, whereas there's no bottom for a bad NBA team. This means that watching any given game involving a bad NBA team is much more painful than any given game involving a bad MLB team.

That being said, I'll go out of my way to watch marquee national NBA matchups and definitely plan around NBA Finals games to make sure that I can watch them all. Watching marquee basketball players going at it (even when they're not on my favorite team) is similar to the feeling of watching a massive football game or a heavyweight title fight. I can enjoy that experience even as a neutral sports fan in a way that isn't quite the same for a baseball game that doesn't involve my favorite team. So, I'm more likely to watch a bad White Sox game compared to a bad Bulls game, but I'm also much more likely to watch a national NBA game compared to a national MLB game.

With everything becoming more nationalized (culture, politics, sports) where you can instantly follow anything and anywhere at any time, it makes sense that the NBA is more popular with the younger generation. That's the trend that I see that isn't going away, which is why I said that I'd buy an NBA team over any other type of sports team if I had billions of dollars to spare.
02-06-2020 10:35 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #38
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-05-2020 01:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 01:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:22 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:56 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  What happened to NASCAR?

A few years ago, it seemed ubiquitous – like it was everywhere. Even for someone like me, who never really followed it, I knew who Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr. and (the other) Jimmy Johnson were.

Now, I have no idea who’s considered the good drivers and I have no idea who is winning the Winston Cup circuit or even who has won it in the past few years? It just seems like it’s a lot less present in the culture than it used to be. Is that fair? If so, why is that the case?

Anecdotally, NASCAR seems to have very few fans amongst Millennials and the demographics of NASCAR’s other fans likely aren’t as attractive (generally older, lower income, more rural, etc.). It would be interesting to see if the data backs up that anecdotal observation.

Other sports that have trouble drawing Millennials still have other attractive demos to rely upon. Baseball still is a big draw in several key urban markets (such as New York, Chicago and Boston), while golf and tennis have very high income viewers. NASCAR doesn’t have that to fall back on, so sports networks would rather spend more time to talk more about the NFL and NBA (which have growing and attractive demographics) compared to spending much time on NASCAR.

NBA is the most overrated sports league because it's the darling of Twitter when in reality it isn't.

Very untrue (as noted in the data that I posted). For some reason, a lot of people that don't watch/like the NBA seem to have a blind spot (whether intentional or not) regarding the depth and scope of its popularity. It has KILLER demographic growth in basically every area that you'd want if you're a TV network or advertiser: younger viewers, more urban, more diverse... essentially every metric that is growing in America, the NBA is delivering better than any other sport besides the NFL (which simply delivers *every* demographic in America as a universally-watched monolith). Steve Ballmer paid $2 billion for the freaking *Clippers* 6 years ago and that franchise is worth even more today. Think about how much the Lakers are worth now by comparison. The NBA is what the future of sports looks like.

Agree. The NBA is incredibly popular with younger people.
02-06-2020 12:35 PM
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e-parade Offline
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Post: #39
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-06-2020 10:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.


There is a glut of inventory and the games are long and slow. I watch the Braves a fair bit but it is on as background noise. When I hear cheering I'll pause it... rewind 10 seconds ... and watch the 30 seconds of actual action. In a 3-4 hour baseball telecast there's about 5 minutes of real action.

Oh man, 538 just recently had the perfect article for this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how...broadcast/

[Image: Hxpk42p.png]
02-06-2020 01:06 PM
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Post: #40
RE: If NFL moves to 17 games as reported starting 2021...
(02-06-2020 01:06 PM)e-parade Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 10:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 11:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The MLB regular season does well in its best markets because it has zero competition from other sports on TV. Either you're watching that, or you're not watching TV sports in the summer, pretty much. And each team is playing 6 games a week during the season, which is not only far more live content than any other pro or college sport, but it's a godsend for an RSN because just about everything else an RSN airs during the dead summer months is going to get the same size audience as a test pattern.

And even so, the audience sizes on the RSNs are nothing to write home about. Only 8 of 30 MLB teams average over 100,000 viewers per game on their RSNs, and those 8 include the 4 largest TV markets, so just drawing over 100,000 is a pretty small percentage of a large TV market. For example, the Yankees draw far larger audiences than anyone else on their RSN, averaging over 250,000 viewers per game, but the NYC TV market has over 7 million TV homes, so the Yankees RSN games are being watched in less than one half of one percent of the local TV market.

RSNs make money for the same reason other "cable" channels do -- because they're collecting per-subscriber fees from every cable home, the vast majority of which don't watch.


There is a glut of inventory and the games are long and slow. I watch the Braves a fair bit but it is on as background noise. When I hear cheering I'll pause it... rewind 10 seconds ... and watch the 30 seconds of actual action. In a 3-4 hour baseball telecast there's about 5 minutes of real action.

Oh man, 538 just recently had the perfect article for this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how...broadcast/

[Image: Hxpk42p.png]

I agree with a lot of the premises, but I don't like their definition of action. There's an awful lot of time in soccer when the ball is slowly advanced up/down the pitch and ball is nowhere near a scoring location. If you're running the hurry up in football there is no down time while the game clock is stopped it's still 100% full speed.
02-06-2020 01:50 PM
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