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SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
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nole Offline
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SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
This is before new negotiations coming up. No way the ACC survives as is. Best case is a Big East type slow die off.



"Greg Sankey announced that approximately $651 MILLION of total revenue was divided among the 14 universities of the SEC for the 2018-19 fiscal year (up from $627.1 million distributed in 2017-18. That's $44.6 million per school. Wow."

"$44.6 million per school BEFORE the CBS package increases in value by 6X when it goes to ESPN."

Sources - Mandel and Feldman
01-30-2020 04:55 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
[Image: chicken-little.jpg?w=300]

Been hearing this since 2011
01-30-2020 08:42 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
The worrying thing here is if those numbers are accurate it might imply the SEC Network is losing revenue year over year.
01-30-2020 08:47 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-30-2020 04:55 PM)nole Wrote:  This is before new negotiations coming up. No way the ACC survives as is. Best case is a Big East type slow die off.



"Greg Sankey announced that approximately $651 MILLION of total revenue was divided among the 14 universities of the SEC for the 2018-19 fiscal year (up from $627.1 million distributed in 2017-18. That's $44.6 million per school. Wow."

"$44.6 million per school BEFORE the CBS package increases in value by 6X when it goes to ESPN."

Sources - Mandel and Feldman

We’re doomed! We’re powerless before this onslaught!
01-30-2020 09:52 PM
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Garrettabc Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
We are not doing too bad for a “G” conference.
01-30-2020 10:41 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-30-2020 08:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The worrying thing here is if those numbers are accurate it might imply the SEC Network is losing revenue year over year.

The built in escalators should have taken the SEC to 45.7 million so that tells me the SECN lost 16.5 million in revenue year over year or 1.1 million in per team in payouts. It's far from what it was in its first full year. I think it peaked between 9 to 10 million in per team payouts and has been heading down since.

The huge money coming is for T1, but I've heard rumors that the T2 may have been renegotiated as well and that the CCG may have been sold separately from the T1. We'll see. Still waiting on the final numbers and particulars which are promised sometime in the first quarter of the new year.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 12:04 AM by JRsec.)
01-31-2020 12:00 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
What we have is a rapidly changing market and ESPN is ready to circle their wagons.
ESPN didn't pay the SEC all of that money for one game per week (old CBS deal). What they contracted for is to wrap up all SEC inventory for a period of time.
With the SEC, ACC, AAC, and Texas locked into long term contracts, ESPN has secured enough quality inventory to continue to be dominant in collegiate sports broadcasting for at least until 2032.
How they can keep all of their inventory happy, remains to be seen.
I would look for ESPN to be buyers of more inventory in the next 5 years, but only at discounted prices.
01-31-2020 06:39 AM
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 12:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 08:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The worrying thing here is if those numbers are accurate it might imply the SEC Network is losing revenue year over year.

The built in escalators should have taken the SEC to 45.7 million so that tells me the SECN lost 16.5 million in revenue year over year or 1.1 million in per team in payouts. It's far from what it was in its first full year. I think it peaked between 9 to 10 million in per team payouts and has been heading down since.

The huge money coming is for T1, but I've heard rumors that the T2 may have been renegotiated as well and that the CCG may have been sold separately from the T1. We'll see. Still waiting on the final numbers and particulars which are promised sometime in the first quarter of the new year.


It changes the math. If you can get OTA national level interest every week you can get a T1 package that has higher income that most pro leagues. Let's stop for a moment to marinate in that. If you can get a major cable national level interest (ESPN/ESPN2) you can get plausibly a T2 package that pays better than a conference TV channel. The conference TV channel is still too lucrative not to have. But the long term income potential may be one of diminishing returns. Having said all that I don't know what happens if Disney tries to force conference networks into basic carriage by pushing high value T2 (and maybe even some T1) inventory into them to jack up their carriage fees (or, keep them more modest in exchange for a deeper pool of people sending money every month).

It does appear though that if you don't have a behemoth to anchor your conference TV channel to such as Disney you are at a severe disadvantage on T3 income right now.
01-31-2020 05:06 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 05:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 12:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 08:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The worrying thing here is if those numbers are accurate it might imply the SEC Network is losing revenue year over year.

The built in escalators should have taken the SEC to 45.7 million so that tells me the SECN lost 16.5 million in revenue year over year or 1.1 million in per team in payouts. It's far from what it was in its first full year. I think it peaked between 9 to 10 million in per team payouts and has been heading down since.

The huge money coming is for T1, but I've heard rumors that the T2 may have been renegotiated as well and that the CCG may have been sold separately from the T1. We'll see. Still waiting on the final numbers and particulars which are promised sometime in the first quarter of the new year.


It changes the math. If you can get OTA national level interest every week you can get a T1 package that has higher income that most pro leagues. Let's stop for a moment to marinate in that. If you can get a major cable national level interest (ESPN/ESPN2) you can get plausibly a T2 package that pays better than a conference TV channel. The conference TV channel is still too lucrative not to have. But the long term income potential may be one of diminishing returns. Having said all that I don't know what happens if Disney tries to force conference networks into basic carriage by pushing high value T2 (and maybe even some T1) inventory into them to jack up their carriage fees (or, keep them more modest in exchange for a deeper pool of people sending money every month).

It does appear though that if you don't have a behemoth to anchor your conference TV channel to such as Disney you are at a severe disadvantage on T3 income right now.

T1- Right. The more brands with national draw playing other brands with national draw the more you make. This is why ESPN will be reticent to place a brand as valuable as Texas in the ACC as a partial. And it is why it is likelier that rich get richer in the next realignment.

T2. The issue here is that most weeks the SEC's #2 game is as good as the #1 game and sometimes that is true of a third game. Increase the likelihood that a 2nd and 3rd pick will draw a greater % of viewers than the average T2 game and that adds value. It is by the way I don't rule out Texas and Tech to the SEC because that gives you 3 games a week in a state of 28 million people and only when they play one another do you only get 2. But a double or triple dip in the state of Texas is high quality T2 material.

So I agree that the T1 and T2 can easily surpass T3.

T3. As to the decline in the SEC's T3 revenue, it is costing us 1.1 million this year and I had guessed it cost us about .7 last year. But when we were making close to 10 million on the T3 that was far superior to everyone's T3 but Texas. if we've dropped to 7 million that's still pretty damned good. So I agree with you here as well, but do think the decline will continue and that what eventually breaks up the networks will be when Alabama, L.S.U., Georgia, Florida, A&M and Auburn all realize that they might make 5 or 6 million just streaming and retaining their own rights than by giving equal shares to Vandy, Miss St, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.

When the network average drops below the threshold that key schools could surpass on their own the conference network experiment will end.
01-31-2020 06:14 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #10
RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So I agree with you here as well, but do think the decline will continue and that what eventually breaks up the networks will be when Alabama, L.S.U., Georgia, Florida, A&M and Auburn all realize that they might make 5 or 6 million just streaming and retaining their own rights than by giving equal shares to Vandy, Miss St, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.


If you have everybody doing their own media deals then you defeat the point of the existence of the conference but more over to put it lightly you create scheduling animosity for everybody. I don't see a way to go to per-school rights and still have the concept of conferences.
01-31-2020 06:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So I agree with you here as well, but do think the decline will continue and that what eventually breaks up the networks will be when Alabama, L.S.U., Georgia, Florida, A&M and Auburn all realize that they might make 5 or 6 million just streaming and retaining their own rights than by giving equal shares to Vandy, Miss St, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.


If you have everybody doing their own media deals then you defeat the point of the existence of the conference but more over to put it lightly you create scheduling animosity for everybody. I don't see a way to go to per-school rights and still have the concept of conferences.

Hogwash. The T1 and T2 were pooled forever and before the advent of conference networks nobody shared their T3. The Big 12 still operates that way and it actually helps to keep the peace. You think Texas would still be in the Big 12 without their T3 rights? Do you think Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, T.C.U., Iowa State and West Virginia want to push that button? Hell no! BTW Iowa State and WVU both made more than the ACC on T3 until you guys got a network. Let that sink in. Kansas and OU were getting 7 million, Texas was averaging 15 million, and WVU and ISU were both hitting around 4 million each.

The SEC existed perfectly harmoniously forever with individual T3 rights until the SECN was formed and even then Florida had to sacrifice to make it happen. Their SUN Network in Florida was quite healthy.
01-31-2020 06:42 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So I agree with you here as well, but do think the decline will continue and that what eventually breaks up the networks will be when Alabama, L.S.U., Georgia, Florida, A&M and Auburn all realize that they might make 5 or 6 million just streaming and retaining their own rights than by giving equal shares to Vandy, Miss St, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.


If you have everybody doing their own media deals then you defeat the point of the existence of the conference but more over to put it lightly you create scheduling animosity for everybody. I don't see a way to go to per-school rights and still have the concept of conferences.

Hogwash. The T1 and T2 were pooled forever and before the advent of conference networks nobody shared their T3. The Big 12 still operates that way and it actually helps to keep the peace. You think Texas would still be in the Big 12 without their T3 rights? Do you think Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, T.C.U., Iowa State and West Virginia want to push that button? Hell no! BTW Iowa State and WVU both made more than the ACC on T3 until you guys got a network. Let that sink in. Kansas and OU were getting 7 million, Texas was averaging 15 million, and WVU and ISU were both hitting around 4 million each.

The SEC existed perfectly harmoniously forever with individual T3 rights until the SECN was formed and even then Florida had to sacrifice to make it happen. Their SUN Network in Florida was quite healthy.


Selling your own T3 is a far cry from selling your own entire inventory.
01-31-2020 08:16 PM
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jtwvu87 Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(01-31-2020 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 06:37 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So I agree with you here as well, but do think the decline will continue and that what eventually breaks up the networks will be when Alabama, L.S.U., Georgia, Florida, A&M and Auburn all realize that they might make 5 or 6 million just streaming and retaining their own rights than by giving equal shares to Vandy, Miss St, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.


If you have everybody doing their own media deals then you defeat the point of the existence of the conference but more over to put it lightly you create scheduling animosity for everybody. I don't see a way to go to per-school rights and still have the concept of conferences.

Hogwash. The T1 and T2 were pooled forever and before the advent of conference networks nobody shared their T3. The Big 12 still operates that way and it actually helps to keep the peace. You think Texas would still be in the Big 12 without their T3 rights? Do you think Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, T.C.U., Iowa State and West Virginia want to push that button? Hell no! BTW Iowa State and WVU both made more than the ACC on T3 until you guys got a network. Let that sink in. Kansas and OU were getting 7 million, Texas was averaging 15 million, and WVU and ISU were both hitting around 4 million each.

The SEC existed perfectly harmoniously forever with individual T3 rights until the SECN was formed and even then Florida had to sacrifice to make it happen. Their SUN Network in Florida was quite healthy.

Respectfully, you are incorrect at the amount WVU receives for its T3..WVU income is more than a couple of a million dollars more.

https://247sports.com/college/west-virgi...141910288/
02-01-2020 09:14 AM
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
Conference comparisons for the academic year 2017-18 from each conference's IRS Form 990, published online by ProPublica.

ACC
Program Revenues $463.2 million ($19.5 million per full member)
TV $277.2 million
Bowls $114.9 million
NCAA $56.6 million
Championships $12.9 million
Other $1.6 million

Payouts
Full Members
$28.1 million (Georgia Tech) to $31.4 million (Clemson)
(Mean $29.7 million)
Notre Dame $7.9 million

Big Ten
Program Revenues $725.7 million (up from $499.7 million in previous year)

Payouts
Equity Members
$53.9 million (multiple) to $54.3 million (Michigan)
(Mean $53.9 million)
Maryland $26.1 million
Rutgers $11.7 million

SEC
Program Revenues $600.3 million

Payouts
$35.8 million (Ole Miss) to $45.6 million (Florida)
(Mean $43.1 million)

Big 12
Program Revenues $370.4 million

Payouts
$33.3 million (Baylor) to $36.6 million (Oklahoma)
(Mean $34.6 million)

Pac 12
Program Revenues $485.9 million

Payouts
$29.4 million (multiple) to $29.6 million (multiple)
(Mean $29.5 million)

I would note that the ACC and SEC each have major events in front of them. The ACC should add $5 million per school immediately and $10 million per school in 3-5 years from the launch of the ACC Network. The SEC should add $20 million per school when its contract with CBS ends after the 2023-24 season. The remaining conferences, as well as the ACC and SEC, will see incremental increases from their existing arrangements and renegotiations when they come up. The Big Ten's increase may be slowed down slightly by Rutgers and Maryland moving to full equity status. The Pac 12 may be able to find greater value from its conference network if it brings in an effective network partner, or it is able to finally expand by adding 4 schools from the B12. Assuming no major moves from the Pac 12, the conference pecking order could look like this in 2024 using adjusted 2017-18 numbers.

SEC - $63 million per school
B1G - $54 million
ACC - $40 million
B12 - $35 million
P12 - $30 million
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 01:12 PM by orangefan.)
02-01-2020 01:09 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(02-01-2020 01:09 PM)orangefan Wrote:  Conference comparisons for the academic year 2017-18 from each conference's IRS Form 990, published online by ProPublica.

ACC
Program Revenues $463.2 million ($19.5 million per full member)
TV $277.2 million
Bowls $114.9 million
NCAA $56.6 million
Championships $12.9 million
Other $1.6 million

Payouts
Full Members
$28.1 million (Georgia Tech) to $31.4 million (Clemson)
(Mean $29.7 million)
Notre Dame $7.9 million

Big Ten
Program Revenues $725.7 million (up from $499.7 million in previous year)

Payouts
Equity Members
$53.9 million (multiple) to $54.3 million (Michigan)
(Mean $53.9 million)
Maryland $26.1 million
Rutgers $11.7 million

SEC
Program Revenues $600.3 million

Payouts
$35.8 million (Ole Miss) to $45.6 million (Florida)
(Mean $43.1 million)

Big 12
Program Revenues $370.4 million

Payouts
$33.3 million (Baylor) to $36.6 million (Oklahoma)
(Mean $34.6 million)

Pac 12
Program Revenues $485.9 million

Payouts
$29.4 million (multiple) to $29.6 million (multiple)
(Mean $29.5 million)

I would note that the ACC and SEC each have major events in front of them. The ACC should add $5 million per school immediately and $10 million per school in 3-5 years from the launch of the ACC Network. The SEC should add $20 million per school when its contract with CBS ends after the 2023-24 season. The remaining conferences, as well as the ACC and SEC, will see incremental increases from their existing arrangements and renegotiations when they come up. The Big Ten's increase may be slowed down slightly by Rutgers and Maryland moving to full equity status. The Pac 12 may be able to find greater value from its conference network if it brings in an effective network partner, or it is able to finally expand by adding 4 schools from the B12. Assuming no major moves from the Pac 12, the conference pecking order could look like this in 2024 using adjusted 2017-18 numbers.

SEC - $63 million per school
B1G - $54 million
ACC - $40 million
B12 - $35 million
P12 - $30 million

5 million for your first year is ambitious. It's a partial year with some startup coming out of the totals. I'd think 3 which is what the SECN produced its first year. Also the SECN revenue has been declining with cord cutting and we had more carriage at our inception and we never made 10 million. Nine is about as good as we got and recently its been more like 7. So I have profound doubts about the 10 million figure as well.

The new SEC contract will be worth minimally 20 million, but Vince Thompson (look him up) stated he felt the contract would be at least 400 million when the details were in and could go much higher. It is unclear if we are selling T1 rights separate from the CCG and it is unclear if we are renegotiating our T2 contract and there is a possibility that a certain % of our total content may be set aside separately for ESPN+.

So it's still too soon to say what the contract will be for. The 300 and 330 million figures were floated prior to the FOX bid which came the first week of January. We know CBS offered 300 and it was merely assumed that if ABC had won the bid that they must have offered 10% more which is why several sources tossed out the 330 million figure. Thompson made his response on the Finebaum show on 1/7/2020 and made his remarks at the very end of the interview.

He said at one point that we might see an increase of 40 million, but the numbers he tossed out were between 23 and 30 million. We'll see.
02-01-2020 02:18 PM
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(02-01-2020 02:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  5 million for your first year is ambitious. It's a partial year with some startup coming out of the totals. I'd think 3 which is what the SECN produced its first year. Also the SECN revenue has been declining with cord cutting and we had more carriage at our inception and we never made 10 million. Nine is about as good as we got and recently its been more like 7. So I have profound doubts about the 10 million figure as well.


Depends on the dynamics of having of a much higher population footprint as well as how long it takes to get Comcast into the fold.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 03:37 PM by JRsec.)
02-01-2020 03:08 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #17
RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(02-01-2020 03:08 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 02:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  5 million for your first year is ambitious. It's a partial year with some startup coming out of the totals. I'd think 3 which is what the SECN produced its first year. Also the SECN revenue has been declining with cord cutting and we had more carriage at our inception and we never made 10 million. Nine is about as good as we got and recently its been more like 7. So I have profound doubts about the 10 million figure as well.


Depends on the dynamics of having of a much higher population footprint as well as how long it takes to get Comcast into the fold.

Your footprint is not statistically that much larger than ours and we have the highest % of subscribers and viewers to potential subscribers and viewers in the industry. And as far as the ACC goes your subscription rate remains to be seen but your actual viewers compared to your total possible viewers is second to last only to the PAC. The Big 10 is barely 2nd over the Big 12 in this regard. And that is a direct result of having the secondary property in most states in your footprint.
Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, and Pittsburgh all have less of a % of viewers than the state flagships. Clemson enjoys a statistical lead over South Carolina and the ACC dominates Virginia and North Carolina. Boston College and Syracuse play 2nd fiddle to Pro sports markets. And that is why the ACC's numbers are what they are. But that's not to say that successful push for the ACCN won't be profitable. It will give you more than twice the 2 million your were getting paid not to have a network. But the BTN and SECN have both passed peak.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 03:44 PM by JRsec.)
02-01-2020 03:40 PM
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
JR,

I read on this board where someone linked a report that the ACCN launched with a good deal more number of subscriptions than the SECN did when they launched, even without Comcast on board yet. I dont know how to begin looking for it.
02-01-2020 04:04 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
(02-01-2020 04:04 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  JR,

I read on this board where someone linked a report that the ACCN launched with a good deal more number of subscriptions than the SECN did when they launched, even without Comcast on board yet. I dont know how to begin looking for it.

AS with all things I shall believe them when I see the results of them. I've read far more on these forums that do not come true than I have ever read that do. It is why I keep a log of annual reports. And by the way, the SEC's subscriptions peaked around 73 million. According to a SNL Kagan report in 2017 for the 2016 period two years of cord cutting had reduced that number to 61.9 million. Making tracking these numbers difficult are the reasonable % of subscriptions that only last Fall through Spring. The ACC won't be immune to that either.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 04:24 PM by JRsec.)
02-01-2020 04:10 PM
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nole Offline
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Post: #20
RE: SEC per teams number up to $44.6 Million per year
If ACCN started out at $5 million, which is not likely, that is means it has a gross revenue of $8 million (because of the $3 million penalty going away).

It is much more likely you see a net of $1-$3 million for the first year.
02-01-2020 05:03 PM
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