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SEC Revenue
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Crazier Offline
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Post: #41
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 08:57 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 08:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  1 point also- as the # of customers has gone down for ESPN, the $ per customer has gone up. So the net revenue hasn't really changed that much at all, and in fact may have gone up.

That's gonna cause more cord cutting. Are they going to keep raising the prices to compensate for the more subscribers they lose?

It's not going to affect them at all. Sports fans, particularly college football fans are not only going to subscribe but they are going to buy the tier that offers ESPNU, which is also the tier that carries the BTN, SECN and I'm assuming the ACCN. What is gong to be different, and may be a facet of the SEC's new contract is a separate fee for ESPN+ which is actually a better deal when you just buy Disney +. So what is going to happen is that there will be people who pay the extra 12 dollars a month for Football season to enjoy Disney and get ESPN+.
$48 dollars won't buy 1 ticket to an SEC game.

You are talking about people who until ESPN made all of the games available donated $1,200 a year for the privilege of buying 2 season ticket books in non prime seating areas for another $1,100. So if you are willing to spend $2,300 for a pair of tickets to the home games of your SEC school then buying a 2nd tier cable package with Disney plus for an extra $100 a football season added onto your cable bill is nothing.

The added Tier 2 inventory that is being created with expansion, and yes more is coming, will provide a nice impetus for that ESPN+ tier and conferences will get extra revenue created for that too.

The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Hardcore fans will always buy of course. Just like hardcore fans will always wait in line for days or pay premium prices of their favorite product. Unfortunately hardcore fans don't make up most of the market. Casual TV watchers are the people responsible for the those huge tv contracts. They pay for cable to watch TLC and Lifetime and don't even realize they paying for ESPN. That will cause more cord cutting along with streaming services. ESPN will eventually be forced to pay schools what they are worth or form a super league with the top 28 teams. No way bottom feeder p5 teams are worth the money they are receiving now.
01-31-2020 11:43 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 11:43 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 08:57 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 08:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  1 point also- as the # of customers has gone down for ESPN, the $ per customer has gone up. So the net revenue hasn't really changed that much at all, and in fact may have gone up.

That's gonna cause more cord cutting. Are they going to keep raising the prices to compensate for the more subscribers they lose?

It's not going to affect them at all. Sports fans, particularly college football fans are not only going to subscribe but they are going to buy the tier that offers ESPNU, which is also the tier that carries the BTN, SECN and I'm assuming the ACCN. What is gong to be different, and may be a facet of the SEC's new contract is a separate fee for ESPN+ which is actually a better deal when you just buy Disney +. So what is going to happen is that there will be people who pay the extra 12 dollars a month for Football season to enjoy Disney and get ESPN+.
$48 dollars won't buy 1 ticket to an SEC game.

You are talking about people who until ESPN made all of the games available donated $1,200 a year for the privilege of buying 2 season ticket books in non prime seating areas for another $1,100. So if you are willing to spend $2,300 for a pair of tickets to the home games of your SEC school then buying a 2nd tier cable package with Disney plus for an extra $100 a football season added onto your cable bill is nothing.

The added Tier 2 inventory that is being created with expansion, and yes more is coming, will provide a nice impetus for that ESPN+ tier and conferences will get extra revenue created for that too.

The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Hardcore fans will always buy of course. Just like hardcore fans will always wait in line for days or pay premium prices of their favorite product. Unfortunately hardcore fans don't make up most of the market. Casual TV watchers are the people responsible for the those huge tv contracts. They pay for cable to watch TLC and Lifetime and don't even realize they paying for ESPN. That will cause more cord cutting along with streaming services. ESPN will eventually be forced to pay schools what they are worth or form a super league with the top 28 teams. No way bottom feeder p5 teams are worth the money they are receiving now.

What advertisers are willing to pay for live sports between two teams with large national followings is what drives the payouts. The rest can stream. And that's where we are headed. So the top brands will earn more and the lesser brands will earn even less unless they are in a conference with top brands. And that's the reality.
01-31-2020 11:48 PM
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BatonRougeEscapee Offline
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Post: #43
RE: SEC Revenue
If this trend continues, in 10 years or so the SEC/Big10 teams may once again have the resources to win a March Madness title, especially if Calipari learns how to coach.
02-01-2020 12:04 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #44
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 07:06 PM)Crazier Wrote:  ESPN will eventually bankrupt themselves paying these huge amounts for conferences with all of this cord cutting going on.

ESPN pays the NFL more than they pay all college conferences combined, and they pay a total of billions more every year for NBA, MLB, pro golf, pro tennis, pro soccer, etc., etc., etc.

Fox also pays the NFL more than they pay for all their college sports rights combined. The World Cup TV rights in the USA, if you combine English and Spanish language TV rights, are worth over a billion dollars for each World Cup. And the World Cup only lasts for three weeks.

CBS only has March Madness, and had the SEC; even with the huge amount they pay for March Madness, they're still paying more for NFL alone than all college sports TV rights they have.

So, please tell us why you think that paying college conferences will be the thing that causes ESPN to go bankrupt.
02-01-2020 12:42 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Yes, cord-cutting was a threat to media companies, not to the conferences. College conferences won't see their money decline until the underlying demand for the product - seeing games remotely on a TV, pad, phone, etc. declines, in other words, until the fan appeal of college football declines.

And there is zero evidence that college football is losing appeal. Stuff like declining attendance or fewer ESPN subscribers represent changes in how fans are consuming college football, not changes in a loss of interest in college football.
02-01-2020 07:38 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #46
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 12:42 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 07:06 PM)Crazier Wrote:  ESPN will eventually bankrupt themselves paying these huge amounts for conferences with all of this cord cutting going on.

ESPN pays the NFL more than they pay all college conferences combined, and they pay a total of billions more every year for NBA, MLB, pro golf, pro tennis, pro soccer, etc., etc., etc.

Fox also pays the NFL more than they pay for all their college sports rights combined. The World Cup TV rights in the USA, if you combine English and Spanish language TV rights, are worth over a billion dollars for each World Cup. And the World Cup only lasts for three weeks.

CBS only has March Madness, and had the SEC; even with the huge amount they pay for March Madness, they're still paying more for NFL alone than all college sports TV rights they have.

So, please tell us why you think that paying college conferences will be the thing that causes ESPN to go bankrupt.

CBS's contract for March Madness was back end loaded like most media contracts, when they started losing money toward the end of the contract because the pay-outs were so high they were forced to bring in Turner as a partner to share some of the expense.
02-01-2020 08:14 AM
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Post: #47
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Yes, cord-cutting was a threat to media companies, not to the conferences. College conferences won't see their money decline until the underlying demand for the product - seeing games remotely on a TV, pad, phone, etc. declines, in other words, until the fan appeal of college football declines.

And there is zero evidence that college football is losing appeal. Stuff like declining attendance or fewer ESPN subscribers represent changes in how fans are consuming college football, not changes in a loss of interest in college football.

Ratings are down. Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 09:24 AM by bullet.)
02-01-2020 09:24 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #48
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Ratings are down. Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

Attendance is the biggest issue, and it's going to continue to drop off.

It's not just American football. In European soccer the biggest name teams can still fill their stadiums, but once you get down to the second level of enthusiasm or lower, you'll see stadiums with 50,000-plus seats and half the seats are empty. Those large stadiums were built when the only way to watch 90% of the games was to be at the stadium, whereas today any fan in Europe can watch a half dozen games from the top leagues and another half dozen from the second tier of leagues all at once. The same situation as with college football, only it's moving faster because their market for televised games is even more oversaturated than the American football market.
02-01-2020 12:19 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #49
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Yes, cord-cutting was a threat to media companies, not to the conferences. College conferences won't see their money decline until the underlying demand for the product - seeing games remotely on a TV, pad, phone, etc. declines, in other words, until the fan appeal of college football declines.

And there is zero evidence that college football is losing appeal. Stuff like declining attendance or fewer ESPN subscribers represent changes in how fans are consuming college football, not changes in a loss of interest in college football.

Ratings are down. Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

But revenue is up up up. That's what matters. Better to have 70k in the stands paying $100 a ticket than 90k paying $50 a ticket.

As for the young, you must of missed the late 1960s and early 1970s, when the death of college football was proclaimed because it was a 'militaristic' sport out of touch with liberal hippie youth, etc.
02-01-2020 12:25 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #50
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 12:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

But revenue is up up up. That's what matters. Better to have 70k in the stands paying $100 a ticket than 90k paying $50 a ticket.

It's not better for the 20K people who can no longer afford to attend.
07-coffee3
02-01-2020 01:10 PM
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Post: #51
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 01:10 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 12:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

But revenue is up up up. That's what matters. Better to have 70k in the stands paying $100 a ticket than 90k paying $50 a ticket.

It's not better for the 20K people who can no longer afford to attend.
07-coffee3

And those $20k aren’t spending money on parking, concessions, or the gift shop, which would make up that $50. You’re also taking revenue from future generations by pricing people out now.
02-01-2020 01:19 PM
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Post: #52
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 02:43 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 08:35 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 11:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  The relative value of football vs. basketball has changed. When the CFA split up and SEC, ACC, BE, SWC and Big 8 did their own deals, the ACC was the best paid of the bunch.

Definitely true.

This is not true. The TV ratings (and attendance) for basketball versus football are at roughly the same ratio they were decades ago. For example, the average 1st round NCAA tourney game got higher ratings in 2019 the average bowl game.

I go more by the Harris Poll which has shown college basketball in a relative decline from the level it was at in 1985.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail...-Poll.aspx

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-pop...-us-2016-3

1989
CB 10%
CFB 7%

1995
CFB 8%
CB 8%

2005
CFB 13%
CB 5%

2014
CFB 10%
CB 3%

College basketball's decline relative to college football started in the mid 90's which was incidentally right around the time the SEC expanded to 12 to become the dominant FB conference. The increased popularity pushed lower conference schools to add FB and/or move up to FBS for a chance at national TV.
02-01-2020 02:05 PM
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Post: #53
RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 12:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The G5 have had this mantra of gloom and doom via cord cutters. The money is going to get better, and conference networks will run their course, but there will always be a new hook to catch the viewer and pay the conferences.

Yes, cord-cutting was a threat to media companies, not to the conferences. College conferences won't see their money decline until the underlying demand for the product - seeing games remotely on a TV, pad, phone, etc. declines, in other words, until the fan appeal of college football declines.

And there is zero evidence that college football is losing appeal. Stuff like declining attendance or fewer ESPN subscribers represent changes in how fans are consuming college football, not changes in a loss of interest in college football.

Ratings are down. Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

But revenue is up up up. That's what matters. Better to have 70k in the stands paying $100 a ticket than 90k paying $50 a ticket.

As for the young, you must of missed the late 1960s and early 1970s, when the death of college football was proclaimed because it was a 'militaristic' sport out of touch with liberal hippie youth, etc.

They've done what they can on ticket prices. They're holding the line now. The big increases were in the last 20 years.
02-01-2020 08:53 PM
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Post: #54
RE: SEC Revenue
(01-31-2020 08:46 AM)XLance Wrote:  Sorry for the repeat from the ACC board.
The pressure will continue to mount for the Big 12 and the PAC especially for teams in those conferences that have any value. ESPN has also put a lot of pressure on the B1G since they have a renewal coming soon and ESPN pays the B1G a lot to buy a good portion of their inventory.
ESPN bought 12 years time to settle the cable/streaming question with their latest SEC purchase. Schools like Oklahoma or even UCLA/USC are on the clock to make a quick decision about their future.


What we have is a rapidly changing market and ESPN is ready to circle their wagons.
ESPN didn't pay the SEC all of that money for one game per week (old CBS deal). What they contracted for is to wrap up all SEC inventory for a period of time.
With the SEC, ACC, AAC, and Texas locked into long term contracts, ESPN has secured enough quality inventory to continue to be dominant in collegiate sports broadcasting for at least until 2032.
How they can keep all of their inventory happy, remains to be seen.
I would look for ESPN to be buyers of more inventory in the next 5 years, but only at discounted prices.

Agree. ESPiN+ with Disney on its side, the answer should come in a few years.
02-01-2020 11:55 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: SEC Revenue
(02-01-2020 01:10 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 12:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 09:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  Attendance is down. People showing up when they have tickets is down. Nothing drastic, but clear trends. And the most concerning trend is that students and recent grads are where most of the decline is.

But revenue is up up up. That's what matters. Better to have 70k in the stands paying $100 a ticket than 90k paying $50 a ticket.

It's not better for the 20K people who can no longer afford to attend.
07-coffee3

That battle was lost almost 20 years ago. E.g. i remember when Saban came to LSU, early on he said LSU needed to upgrade its facilities, so LSU raised ticket prices and adopted personal seat licenses, which were new at the time. This caused an uproar from many long-time season ticket holders, many of whom had had season tickets for decades at low prices. There were a lot of anguished stories in the local media about LSU pricing the little guy out of the stadium, etc.

The response was "look, this is what is happening at Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama. Do you want our football to remain competitive with them or do you want us to be Vanderbilt?"

And that argument carried the day. You have to pay to play.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2020 10:37 PM by quo vadis.)
02-02-2020 05:53 AM
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RE: SEC Revenue
02-03-2020 09:02 PM
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