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Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
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Cletus Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 10:51 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 10:22 AM)mapdude Wrote:  He has an experienced coach on the bench now. Matlock has been a college coach for over 20 years if my memory is correct.

I no very little about Matlock's history.

Is he a tactician, recruiter or both.

He handles high profile cases ...................

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01-29-2020 03:52 PM
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mccarverslawyer Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 03:41 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  A heavy, a bench guy, a tough guy, a elder statesman, maybe a long term HC / senior assistant.
One guy comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crews

He was a long term HC, has won at some levels, struggled at others. Majerus guy.
He's a no brainer in my mind.

Problem is that who do you replace?

1. Miller is way too valuable
2. Tony is a life long friend of Penny
3. The new guy just started, bad to show him the door.

Create a non-recruiting role? Similar to what was floated with Larry Brown.

>>>>

Actually, screw it, we're in trouble with the NCAA already, let's just call Brown in now, lol

He played with Dakich at Indiana ... does he share the same opinion of Memphis as a school.
Otherwise yes perfectly fits profile of a mentor to Penny. A half court protege of Bobby Knight. Knight recommended him to be Army HC.
01-29-2020 03:57 PM
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Sundanceuiuc Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 03:57 PM)mccarverslawyer Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 03:41 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  A heavy, a bench guy, a tough guy, a elder statesman, maybe a long term HC / senior assistant.
One guy comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crews

He was a long term HC, has won at some levels, struggled at others. Majerus guy.
He's a no brainer in my mind.

Problem is that who do you replace?

1. Miller is way too valuable
2. Tony is a life long friend of Penny
3. The new guy just started, bad to show him the door.

Create a non-recruiting role? Similar to what was floated with Larry Brown.

>>>>

Actually, screw it, we're in trouble with the NCAA already, let's just call Brown in now, lol

He played with Dakich at Indiana ... does he share the same opinion of Memphis as a school.
Otherwise yes perfectly fits profile of a mentor to Penny. A half court protege of Bobby Knight. Knight recommended him to be Army HC.

Did not connect that. Yeah, if he's with Dakich, screw him.

Dakich is a TBT guy and while I love TBT, I constantly give those people crap over him.
01-29-2020 03:59 PM
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mccarverslawyer Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
To continue your thought - what connection (if any) does Penny have with Coach K..

K played at Army (for Knight) so he has to have a relationship with Crews. As you said screw Dakich - if Penny and K have good relationship that would/might take care of Dakich.

Ah Dreams.

"My father used to say dreams are what make life bearable" - from Rudy.
01-29-2020 04:07 PM
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Big Bang 5023 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 01:30 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 12:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 10:22 AM)mapdude Wrote:  He has an experienced coach on the bench now. Matlock has been a college coach for over 20 years if my memory is correct.

It's Madlock btw. And I specifically said an elderly proven coach at the end of his career who wouldn't mind being an assistant. Tony is fine as far as he goes but he's no elder statesman. Apparently Penny doesn't value his experience enough to listen to him as he's been successful almost everywhere he's been. But I think his true expertise lies in his recruiting ties.

I think Penny knows the game exceedingly well and has an established rapport with this team but his in game coaching appears to be lacking in at least some respects. I think a mentor type assistant would do him wonders IF, as has been pointed out, he's willing to listen.

This is exactly what Juwuan Howard did at Michigan

A Nolan Richardson or Larry Brown type.

Suggestions anybody?

I would stay away from anything Nolan Richardson related. 40 minutes of hell on the court and 24 hrs of misery with his mouth and attitude.
01-29-2020 04:53 PM
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Atlanta Online
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Post: #26
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 03:41 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  A heavy, a bench guy, a tough guy, a elder statesman, maybe a long term HC / senior assistant.
One guy comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crews

He was a long term HC, has won at some levels, struggled at others. Majerus guy.
He's a no brainer in my mind.

Problem is that who do you replace?

1. Miller is way too valuable
2. Tony is a life long friend of Penny
3. The new guy just started, bad to show him the door.

Create a non-recruiting role? Similar to what was floated with Larry Brown.

>>>>

Actually, screw it, we're in trouble with the NCAA already, let's just call Brown in now, lol

Majerus died 7-8 yrs ago, just FYI.
01-29-2020 05:33 PM
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MemphisTigerPawr Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 04:53 PM)Big Bang 5023 Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 01:30 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 12:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 10:22 AM)mapdude Wrote:  He has an experienced coach on the bench now. Matlock has been a college coach for over 20 years if my memory is correct.

It's Madlock btw. And I specifically said an elderly proven coach at the end of his career who wouldn't mind being an assistant. Tony is fine as far as he goes but he's no elder statesman. Apparently Penny doesn't value his experience enough to listen to him as he's been successful almost everywhere he's been. But I think his true expertise lies in his recruiting ties.

I think Penny knows the game exceedingly well and has an established rapport with this team but his in game coaching appears to be lacking in at least some respects. I think a mentor type assistant would do him wonders IF, as has been pointed out, he's willing to listen.

This is exactly what Juwuan Howard did at Michigan

A Nolan Richardson or Larry Brown type.

Suggestions anybody?

I would stay away from anything Nolan Richardson related. 40 minutes of hell on the court and 24 hrs of misery with his mouth and attitude.

I tend to agree, just looking for suggestions.
01-29-2020 05:37 PM
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uskjtc02 Away
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Post: #28
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 01:16 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Not sure why he just wouldn't hire one of you guys

Me either. They seem to know so freakin much.
01-29-2020 06:28 PM
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Herff Tiger Online
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Post: #29
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 02:47 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 01:22 PM)rolexjames Wrote:  Why does people think Penny don't listen to his coaches? He constantly talks about his staff and shouts out the assistant who had the scout. To me his issue is that he has issued a pro exam to college students who are used to being graded on a curve. The guys now are thinking too much instead of playing.

"Basketball instinct" is extremely tough if not impossible to teach. Players either seem to have it or not. All of the greats have it, and of course Penny had the instinct. Most all NBA players do but at a lower level than the greats. However, I think this is where some of the greats struggle with teaching/coaching. They cannot grasp others not having or playing with basketball instinct because it is a gift that comes so naturally to them. So, they start trying to teach instinct and what happens is exactly what you are describing. The players start overthinking because it is not natural for them.

We are running traps and switches on defense that require those instincts with players who simply to do not posses that gift. We are running offensive sets that rely on players making instinctual screens, cuts, drives, passes, etc. but most of players do not possess that ability. You can see the guys that do on our team, Precious, Lester, Boogie (yes, I do believe that - he is just in a serious paralysis by analysis funk), and to a much lesser extent Alo. To Tyler's credit I feel like he has actually developed some this season.

It is no different than music. I have no musical ability inside my body. I can memorize the different keys and even what keys to push to play twinkle twinkle little star but there is no amount of teaching or memorization that would ever allow me to play a piano like Beethoven.

I was going to post something similar before I got down to this, in reaction to the posts that said "I think Penny knows the game exceedingly well and has an established rapport with this team but his in game coaching appears to be lacking in at least some respects" and "To me his issue is that he has issued a pro exam to college students who are used to being graded on a curve. The guys now are thinking too much instead of playing."

I agree 100% with SeñorTiger's post. My thought was that Penny and Tony Madlock played to win, and I assume Mike Miller too, whereas some of our guys look like they might be more interested in filling the stat sheet or making highlights than in just absolute pursuit of winning the game. That might just be the interpretation I'm making of the case when their lack of b'ball instinct leads them into a position where they think "I've got to do something, I guess shoot." But I wonder if Penny and Tony and Mike, in addition to not being able to force feed instinct, are struggling with trying to generate that competitive focus to win the game.

About the post that mentioned "a pro exam to college students", well actually these are pretty much high school students. Tyler played wild last year and maybe learned a little bit. ALo gained a little experience. Maurice doesn't seem to listen, or doesn't comprehend what he is hearing. Except for Lance Thomas all the rest are freshmen, so that's a lot of the problem. Add in all the recruiting hype and "national championship" BS that they heard all summer and you have the recipe for what we have seen.

Edit: I said "not being able to force feed instinct", meaning it can't be done, not that I'm saying they are failing at it.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2020 06:41 PM by Herff Tiger.)
01-29-2020 06:38 PM
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Atlanta Online
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Post: #30
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 06:38 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 02:47 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 01:22 PM)rolexjames Wrote:  Why does people think Penny don't listen to his coaches? He constantly talks about his staff and shouts out the assistant who had the scout. To me his issue is that he has issued a pro exam to college students who are used to being graded on a curve. The guys now are thinking too much instead of playing.

"Basketball instinct" is extremely tough if not impossible to teach. Players either seem to have it or not. All of the greats have it, and of course Penny had the instinct. Most all NBA players do but at a lower level than the greats. However, I think this is where some of the greats struggle with teaching/coaching. They cannot grasp others not having or playing with basketball instinct because it is a gift that comes so naturally to them. So, they start trying to teach instinct and what happens is exactly what you are describing. The players start overthinking because it is not natural for them.

We are running traps and switches on defense that require those instincts with players who simply to do not posses that gift. We are running offensive sets that rely on players making instinctual screens, cuts, drives, passes, etc. but most of players do not possess that ability. You can see the guys that do on our team, Precious, Lester, Boogie (yes, I do believe that - he is just in a serious paralysis by analysis funk), and to a much lesser extent Alo. To Tyler's credit I feel like he has actually developed some this season.

It is no different than music. I have no musical ability inside my body. I can memorize the different keys and even what keys to push to play twinkle twinkle little star but there is no amount of teaching or memorization that would ever allow me to play a piano like Beethoven.

I was going to post something similar before I got down to this, in reaction to the posts that said "I think Penny knows the game exceedingly well and has an established rapport with this team but his in game coaching appears to be lacking in at least some respects" and "To me his issue is that he has issued a pro exam to college students who are used to being graded on a curve. The guys now are thinking too much instead of playing."

I agree 100% with SeñorTiger's post. My thought was that Penny and Tony Madlock played to win, and I assume Mike Miller too, whereas some of our guys look like they might be more interested in filling the stat sheet or making highlights than in just absolute pursuit of winning the game. That might just be the interpretation I'm making of the case when their lack of b'ball instinct leads them into a position where they think "I've got to do something, I guess shoot." But I wonder if Penny and Tony and Mike, in addition to not being able to force feed instinct, are struggling with trying to generate that competitive focus to win the game.

About the post that mentioned "a pro exam to college students", well actually these are pretty much high school students. Tyler played wild last year and maybe learned a little bit. ALo gained a little experience. Maurice doesn't seem to listen, or doesn't comprehend what he is hearing. Except for Lance Thomas all the rest are freshmen, so that's a lot of the problem. Add in all the recruiting hype and "national championship" BS that they heard all summer and you have the recipe for what we have seen.

Edit: I said "not being able to force feed instinct", meaning it can't be done, not that I'm saying they are failing at it.

Maybe but playing a switch everything defense with small guards on the floor is problematic when the opponent is taking advantage inside & out & then not considering that effect on the offense during the last 6 mins of the game is a real head scratcher - and that is on the staff. I saw no lack of effort but the staff may well being asking more of certain players than they are capable.
01-29-2020 06:51 PM
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Sundanceuiuc Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 05:33 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 03:41 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  A heavy, a bench guy, a tough guy, a elder statesman, maybe a long term HC / senior assistant.
One guy comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crews

He was a long term HC, has won at some levels, struggled at others. Majerus guy.
He's a no brainer in my mind.

Problem is that who do you replace?

1. Miller is way too valuable
2. Tony is a life long friend of Penny
3. The new guy just started, bad to show him the door.

Create a non-recruiting role? Similar to what was floated with Larry Brown.

>>>>

Actually, screw it, we're in trouble with the NCAA already, let's just call Brown in now, lol

Majerus died 7-8 yrs ago, just FYI.

Yeah, that's why I said Majerus guy, as in Crews was one of his assistants.

RIP Big Rick.
01-29-2020 09:00 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 01:16 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Not sure why he just wouldn't hire one of you guys

Get over yourself.
01-29-2020 09:10 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 02:47 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 01:22 PM)rolexjames Wrote:  Why does people think Penny don't listen to his coaches? He constantly talks about his staff and shouts out the assistant who had the scout. To me his issue is that he has issued a pro exam to college students who are used to being graded on a curve. The guys now are thinking too much instead of playing.

"Basketball instinct" is extremely tough if not impossible to teach. Players either seem to have it or not. All of the greats have it, and of course Penny had the instinct. Most all NBA players do but at a lower level than the greats. However, I think this is where some of the greats struggle with teaching/coaching. They cannot grasp others not having or playing with basketball instinct because it is a gift that comes so naturally to them. So, they start trying to teach instinct and what happens is exactly what you are describing. The players start overthinking because it is not natural for them.

We are running traps and switches on defense that require those instincts with players who simply to do not posses that gift. We are running offensive sets that rely on players making instinctual screens, cuts, drives, passes, etc. but most of players do not possess that ability. You can see the guys that do on our team, Precious, Lester, Boogie (yes, I do believe that - he is just in a serious paralysis by analysis funk), and to a much lesser extent Alo. To Tyler's credit I feel like he has actually developed some this season.

It is no different than music. I have no musical ability inside my body. I can memorize the different keys and even what keys to push to play twinkle twinkle little star but there is no amount of teaching or memorization that would ever allow me to play a piano like Beethoven.

This may be the best analysis I've heard yet. nice.
01-29-2020 09:15 PM
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MvETigers Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.
01-29-2020 09:58 PM
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RCM1029 Away
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Post: #35
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.
01-29-2020 10:32 PM
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Phillip26r Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 01:16 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Not sure why he just wouldn't hire one of you guys

Nicely done
01-29-2020 11:11 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 11:11 PM)Phillip26r Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 01:16 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Not sure why he just wouldn't hire one of you guys

Nicely done

You guys have your opinions and we have ours, kind of the point of this place but you do you and I'll keep doing me. If you'd care to offer up some rational critiques of my opinion I'm all ears, if not what are you bringing to the conversation other than snide remarks? Maybe you'll change my mind rather than bring out the rudeness I'm very capable of but manage to keep in check, sometimes. And I'm using "you" generically so don't get all butt-hurt.
01-30-2020 10:05 AM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

Care to expound? I'm all ears.
01-30-2020 10:06 AM
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MvETigers Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
He had to be approved by the AAC. I was told by more than one source that he was blocked by a member school. I am betting it was SMU, but I am not sure about that part.
01-30-2020 06:16 PM
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MvETigers Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Since the administration wouldn't let Penny...
(01-29-2020 10:32 PM)RCM1029 Wrote:  
(01-29-2020 09:58 PM)MvETigers Wrote:  Why people keep repeating the lie that our administration alone blocked LB from coming on staff is beyond me. It's simply not correct.

If you have factual evidence that it’s a lie, please provide such. Otherwise you’re just adding to the noise.

I was told by multiple sources that the AAC had to approve of him and he was blocked. Funny, I have never seen anyone show a link that says Bowen was the one that blocked the hire, yet no one claims that it is a lie?!!
01-30-2020 06:18 PM
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