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OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
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MercerFan Offline
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OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
Some interesting news about the A-Sun that I (assume) is off topic. It's still very confusing, but the ASUN wants to start a new conference, while also maintaining the ASUN, and somehow expand to 20 teams in the process. If anyone can explain their plan I'd love to hear it! I assume this is off topic because I can't imagine a SoCon team jumping into this. Story:

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/sports/...551544002/
01-26-2020 04:53 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-26-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  Some interesting news about the A-Sun that I (assume) is off topic. It's still very confusing, but the ASUN wants to start a new conference, while also maintaining the ASUN, and somehow expand to 20 teams in the process. If anyone can explain their plan I'd love to hear it! I assume this is off topic because I can't imagine a SoCon team jumping into this. Story:

https://www.naplesnews.com/story/sports/...551544002/

This makes no sense, but the ASun makes no sense. A 20 team conference with one bid to the NCAA tourneys? Sounds like a conference every D1 school wants to be a part of...

Split the one bid revenue with 19 other schools...
01-26-2020 06:06 PM
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etsubuc Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
I read this article twice and couldn't figure it out. Both of these conferences sound like they need to just fold.
01-26-2020 08:31 PM
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MTBuc Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
What a colossal dumpster fire the Asun is, always has and always will be. What the heck is a Bellarmine btw? If this wacky expansion goes through does anybody think any semi-local schools would be involved? Seems like Tusculum, Carson Newman, etc would be close in enrollment to whatever Bellarmine is and would fit the footprint.
01-26-2020 09:07 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-26-2020 09:07 PM)MTBuc Wrote:  What a colossal dumpster fire the Asun is, always has and always will be. What the heck is a Bellarmine btw? If this wacky expansion goes through does anybody think any semi-local schools would be involved? Seems like Tusculum, Carson Newman, etc would be close in enrollment to whatever Bellarmine is and would fit the footprint.

LMU has wanted to move up for quite some time. Perhaps???
01-26-2020 09:10 PM
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MTBuc Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-26-2020 09:10 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(01-26-2020 09:07 PM)MTBuc Wrote:  What a colossal dumpster fire the Asun is, always has and always will be. What the heck is a Bellarmine btw? If this wacky expansion goes through does anybody think any semi-local schools would be involved? Seems like Tusculum, Carson Newman, etc would be close in enrollment to whatever Bellarmine is and would fit the footprint.

LMU has wanted to move up for quite some time. Perhaps???

LMU has the super donor to make it happen. Perhaps this would present VMI an opportunity to exit the SoCon and move their athletics to a conference they could be a bit more competitive in. The SoCon drops some dead weight and finds a school that’s a better fit? Dreaming.
01-26-2020 09:22 PM
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MercerFan Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
I’m still trying to figure this out, and I think ASUN fans are too after reading the Liberty board.

So here’s the steps I can gather:
1) the ASUN currently has 10 teams. Only 7 of these teams (“ASUN7”) have automatic bid status. All of these teams must remain together or the conference loses auto bids. Any other full D1 teams in the league with the ASUN7 also get auto bid status (Liberty).
2) The ASUN now invites 10 additional random teams (I’m guessing a mix of D2 and low end D1) to join. Now they have 20 teams.
3) then the ASUN7 abandon them and take over the CCSA, which is a nothing “conference”.
4) then the CCSA is renamed the ASUN, and houses the ASUN7 (FGCU, Kennesaw, Stetson, Lipscomb, North Florida, Jacksonville, and NJIT).
5) the “abandoned 13” teams become the United Athletic Conference.
6) now they’ve created 2 conferences. One that retains automatic bid status (ASUN7) and one that doesn’t (United Athletic Conference — 13 teams).

So how will the 3 abandoned core ASUN teams (Liberty, North Alabama, and Bellarmine) have access to the NCAA tournaments? Unless they are also added to the new ASUN I don’t see how Liberty would be involved in the conference tourneys and auto bids.

The ASUN has always had a retention problem. No denying that. So maybe they think they can build a super conference of low end teams to combat the revolving door of exits. Or maybe they dream of these 2 conferences remaining separate and eventually they’ll have 2 bids to each tournament? Not sure what the end goal here is, but short term is definitely survival. I think this plan is gonna spook the membership though, and get everyone looking for the exits. Even if the schools are saying they’re on board, they aren’t going to turn down offers to move up. If any one of the ASUN7 get an offer to move up to an established league, I imagine they’d accept in a heartbeat. That would destroy these plans. I’ll be following with interest.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 07:07 PM by MercerFan.)
01-27-2020 06:49 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-27-2020 06:49 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  I’m still trying to figure this out, and I think ASUN fans are too after reading the Liberty board.

So here’s the steps I can gather:
1) the ASUN currently has 10 teams. Only 7 of these teams (“ASUN7”) have automatic bid status. All of these teams must remain together or the conference loses auto bids. Any other full D1 teams in the league with the ASUN7 also get auto bid status (Liberty).
2) The ASUN now invites 10 additional random teams (I’m guessing a mix of D2 and low end D1) to join. Now they have 20 teams.
3) then the ASUN7 abandon them and take over the CCSA, which is a nothing “conference”.
4) then the CCSA is renamed the ASUN, and houses the ASUN7 (FGCU, Kennesaw, Stetson, Lipscomb, North Florida, Jacksonville, and NJIT).
5) the “abandoned 13” teams become the United Athletic Conference.
6) now they’ve created 2 conferences. One that retains automatic bid status (ASUN7) and one that doesn’t (United Athletic Conference — 13 teams).

So how will the 3 abandoned core ASUN teams (Liberty, North Alabama, and Bellarmine) have access to the NCAA tournaments? Unless they are also added to the new ASUN I don’t see how Liberty would be involved in the conference tourneys and auto bids.

The ASUN has always had a retention problem. No denying that. So maybe they think they can build a super conference of low end teams to combat the revolving door of exits. Or maybe they dream of these 2 conferences remaining separate and eventually they’ll have 2 bids to each tournament? Not sure what the end goal here is, but short term is definitely survival. I think this plan is gonna spook the membership though, and get everyone looking for the exits. Even if the schools are saying they’re on board, they aren’t going to turn down offers to move up. If any one of the ASUN7 get an offer to move up to an established league, I imagine they’d accept in a heartbeat. That would destroy these plans. I’ll be following with interest.

There is no way of overstating the significance of Dr Noland getting ETSU off the A-Titanic and back into the SoCon. The stability of the SoCon is rock solid at this time in college athletics. Those who left the SoCon in recent years for “greener pastures”, in my view, have not gotten the return on their investments ($$$), with the exception of App State, that they envisioned. Who knows the future of additional realignment in college athletics — but being in the SoCon at this time given its footprint, academic reputation, and financial implications is the correct and realistic place to be. And no, don’t suggest VMI should consider leaving at this time, especially going over to whatever this ASUN+ thing could become.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2020 03:38 PM by Buc66.)
01-28-2020 03:35 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-28-2020 03:35 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 06:49 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  I’m still trying to figure this out, and I think ASUN fans are too after reading the Liberty board.

So here’s the steps I can gather:
1) the ASUN currently has 10 teams. Only 7 of these teams (“ASUN7”) have automatic bid status. All of these teams must remain together or the conference loses auto bids. Any other full D1 teams in the league with the ASUN7 also get auto bid status (Liberty).
2) The ASUN now invites 10 additional random teams (I’m guessing a mix of D2 and low end D1) to join. Now they have 20 teams.
3) then the ASUN7 abandon them and take over the CCSA, which is a nothing “conference”.
4) then the CCSA is renamed the ASUN, and houses the ASUN7 (FGCU, Kennesaw, Stetson, Lipscomb, North Florida, Jacksonville, and NJIT).
5) the “abandoned 13” teams become the United Athletic Conference.
6) now they’ve created 2 conferences. One that retains automatic bid status (ASUN7) and one that doesn’t (United Athletic Conference — 13 teams).

So how will the 3 abandoned core ASUN teams (Liberty, North Alabama, and Bellarmine) have access to the NCAA tournaments? Unless they are also added to the new ASUN I don’t see how Liberty would be involved in the conference tourneys and auto bids.

The ASUN has always had a retention problem. No denying that. So maybe they think they can build a super conference of low end teams to combat the revolving door of exits. Or maybe they dream of these 2 conferences remaining separate and eventually they’ll have 2 bids to each tournament? Not sure what the end goal here is, but short term is definitely survival. I think this plan is gonna spook the membership though, and get everyone looking for the exits. Even if the schools are saying they’re on board, they aren’t going to turn down offers to move up. If any one of the ASUN7 get an offer to move up to an established league, I imagine they’d accept in a heartbeat. That would destroy these plans. I’ll be following with interest.

There is no way of overstating the significance of Dr Noland getting ETSU off the A-Titanic and back into the SoCon. The stability of the SoCon is rock solid at this time in college athletics. Those who left the SoCon in recent years for “greener pastures”, in my view, have not gotten the return on their investments ($$$), with the exception of App State, that they envisioned. Who knows the future of additional realignment in college athletics — but being in the SoCon at this time given its footprint, academic reputation, and financial implications is the correct and realistic place to be. And no, don’t suggest VMI should consider leaving at this time, especially going over to whatever this ASUN+ thing could become.

I am just so glad to be out of that league. I like where we are at and it provides a good platform for our future. Dr. Noland getting us back was the best move we could have envisioned. Thank you Dr. Noland!
01-28-2020 03:54 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
Can't make much sense of this article either but did learn Bellarmine is going to the ASun in 2020-2021. Bellarmine is a tradition-rich division II basketball powerhouse. Bellarmine #8 and LMU #2 in this week's D-II basketball poll. Bellarmine will likely transition well into D-I located in Louisville. . . VMI has a rich athletic history (football and basketball) as well, they don't help the conference RPI/NET these days, but they are a top notch academic institution. Still hoping things will pick up there in athletics. . . I have some LMU ties and it is also a D-II basketball powerhouse, they play Bellarmine now and then, they have excellent facilities but their scenic rural setting might make D-I challenging. I've always wished they would add football and just enjoy being part of a good D-II SAC.
01-28-2020 08:58 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
Buc66 and Bucfan81: great points on our school Presidents getting us in the right spots. We couldn’t be in a better position like you said. President Underwood was the absolute best hire for Mercer. He’s done so much improving Mercer.
01-28-2020 11:31 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
This article may make it a little clearer on the expansion objectives.
Sounds like the main goal is to get multiple bids.

https://mattbrown.substack.com/p/the-asu...nsion-plan
01-30-2020 12:20 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-30-2020 12:20 PM)Stateman Wrote:  This article may make it a little clearer on the expansion objectives.
Sounds like the main goal is to get multiple bids.

https://mattbrown.substack.com/p/the-asu...nsion-plan

I understand the goal but are we to expect the P5s to give up tourney revenue to these two low major (and they are/will be low major) conferences? I just think they are grasping at straws, maybe I am wrong.

The 18th place team in the Big 10 will always get a bid...
01-30-2020 07:39 PM
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MercerFan Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-30-2020 12:20 PM)Stateman Wrote:  This article may make it a little clearer on the expansion objectives.
Sounds like the main goal is to get multiple bids.

https://mattbrown.substack.com/p/the-asu...nsion-plan

I think you’re right, and that’s a hard concept to grasp. They have trouble maintaining membership levels in one league, so now they want to do it for 2 leagues at the same time!? I’m sorry but I can’t see any way this goes well. Like I said before, one domino falling (a single ASUN school bolting) will kill the whole thing. And I’m betting they’ll bolt if given a chance.

That article was great, except they said 5 schools have left the ASUN since 2000. The correct number of departures since 2000 is 13!
01-30-2020 08:04 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
I think its interesting after all this time, the ASUN is finally looking at football. Maybe this article does make sense in that the Asun/Big South partnership already shows this can work. I could see the Big South fold, and Monmouth and NJIT go to the nee UCA with NJIT being the UNCG of that group and not having football. Ironic though, that Jacksonville ended the program with this potential opportunity at a scholarship option. Presbyterian makes sense and youd need one in VA that isnt liberty to help you bridge that east coast gap to NJ.
01-31-2020 09:55 AM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-31-2020 09:55 AM)Brandon_Keys Wrote:  I think its interesting after all this time, the ASUN is finally looking at football. Maybe this article does make sense in that the Asun/Big South partnership already shows this can work. I could see the Big South fold, and Monmouth and NJIT go to the nee UCA with NJIT being the UNCG of that group and not having football. Ironic though, that Jacksonville ended the program with this potential opportunity at a scholarship option. Presbyterian makes sense and youd need one in VA that isnt liberty to help you bridge that east coast gap to NJ.


For us native Virginians there is always hope that Liberty will relocate.


Just when you thought it couldn't get any more far fetched...
01-31-2020 01:03 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-31-2020 01:03 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:55 AM)Brandon_Keys Wrote:  I think its interesting after all this time, the ASUN is finally looking at football. Maybe this article does make sense in that the Asun/Big South partnership already shows this can work. I could see the Big South fold, and Monmouth and NJIT go to the nee UCA with NJIT being the UNCG of that group and not having football. Ironic though, that Jacksonville ended the program with this potential opportunity at a scholarship option. Presbyterian makes sense and youd need one in VA that isnt liberty to help you bridge that east coast gap to NJ.


For us native Virginians there is always hope that Liberty will relocate.


Just when you thought it couldn't get any more far fetched...


Good Lord. We’re in the upside down!!
01-31-2020 03:58 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
This is how I see it (live in the Tri Cities):

The ASun wants access to FBS for some of its schools )Kennesaw St, UNA, UNF, and FGCU).

The ASun invites six or so public CAA FCS schools with football that want FBS.

It also invites a couple of others like Jacksonville St, Chattanooga, NC A&T, maybe EKU.

The new league will be to finish their FBS transition and get a part of the CFP. ASun members would bo FBS anytime they want. Major $’s that the ASun has never had.

Effects on ETSU: major openings in the CAA and OVC. The SoCon takes in more Big South schools.

Think eventually ETSU will go FBS too.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 09:20 PM by NoDak.)
01-31-2020 09:19 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-31-2020 09:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  This is how I see it (live in the Tri Cities):

The ASun wants access to FBS for some of its schools )Kennesaw St, UNA, UNF, and FGCU).

The ASun invites six or so public CAA FCS schools with football that want FBS.

It also invites a couple of others like Jacksonville St, Chattanooga, NC A&T, maybe EKU.

The new league will be to finish their FBS transition and get a part of the CFP. ASun members would bo FBS anytime they want. Major $’s that the ASun has never had.

Effects on ETSU: major openings in the CAA and OVC. The SoCon takes in more Big South schools.

Think eventually ETSU will go FBS too.

That all sounds good and great, and I could believe that’s the vision. But I cannot imagine schools from the CAA, OVC, or SoCon putting their faith into a brand new league run by the ASUN commissioner. It sounds like a solid way to run your team into the ground when it inevitably fails. A commissioner with a track record of losing 13 schools since 2003 is going to convince even higher level schools to join him? Not only that, but he’s never run a football conference. Never run even a non scholarship league, and they would trust him to lead them into FBS? Can’t see it happening.

Not only that, but the Power 5 and NCAA don’t like losing money to us small schools. The NCAA isn’t going to like the fact that the ASUN is gaming the system with this “CCSA” shell conference. I expect a lot of pushback from this in one way or another, and maybe a lot of rules being rewritten. You don’t take swipes at the Power 5’s pocketbook and expect them to be OK with it. (That’s if they have FBS aspirations). Even if it’s only to make 2 conferences within FCS they are still gaming the system and the NCAA won’t be happy.

If the Big South was going to dissolve they wouldn’t need the sham CCSA conference at all. The Big South would fill that role. So I don’t think any conference will be dissolving and the ASUN is trying to add an additional D1 conference (NCAA and other conferences won’t be pleased. Everyone loses a slice of pie in this deal).
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 10:09 PM by MercerFan.)
01-31-2020 10:05 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(01-31-2020 10:05 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 09:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  This is how I see it (live in the Tri Cities):

The ASun wants access to FBS for some of its schools )Kennesaw St, UNA, UNF, and FGCU).

The ASun invites six or so public CAA FCS schools with football that want FBS.

It also invites a couple of others like Jacksonville St, Chattanooga, NC A&T, maybe EKU.

The new league will be to finish their FBS transition and get a part of the CFP. ASun members would bo FBS anytime they want. Major $’s that the ASun has never had.

Effects on ETSU: major openings in the CAA and OVC. The SoCon takes in more Big South schools.

Think eventually ETSU will go FBS too.

That all sounds good and great, and I could believe that’s the vision. But I cannot imagine schools from the CAA, OVC, or SoCon putting their faith into a brand new league run by the ASUN commissioner. It sounds like a solid way to run your team into the ground when it inevitably fails. A commissioner with a track record of losing 13 schools since 2003 is going to convince even higher level schools to join him? Not only that, but he’s never run a football conference. Never run even a non scholarship league, and they would trust him to lead them into FBS? Can’t see it happening.

Not only that, but the Power 5 and NCAA don’t like losing money to us small schools. The NCAA isn’t going to like the fact that the ASUN is gaming the system with this “CCSA” shell conference. I expect a lot of pushback from this in one way or another, and maybe a lot of rules being rewritten. You don’t take swipes at the Power 5’s pocketbook and expect them to be OK with it. (That’s if they have FBS aspirations). Even if it’s only to make 2 conferences within FCS they are still gaming the system and the NCAA won’t be happy.

If the Big South was going to dissolve they wouldn’t need the sham CCSA conference at all. The Big South would fill that role. So I don’t think any conference will be dissolving and the ASUN is trying to add an additional D1 conference (NCAA and other conferences won’t be pleased. Everyone loses a slice of pie in this deal).
There was an NCAA convention last week, and it purposely didn’t mention FBS for a reason, so the rules won’t change.

All FBS leagues, spots are effectively full, so this is the only way up. The ten teams are needed for a transition. Having to get all non league games is very expensive, but Liberty had and has $.

The CFB payout will probably double or more, so any upper FCS schools would be remorseful. This is the biggest incentive ever to move up to FBS. Jacksonville State applied to the Belt butwere rected because the Belt doesn’t want three Alabama schools. Most of the SunBelt schools except Coastal, Appy St, and Ga Southern didn’t have the CFP payout incentive.

The Big South is made of mostly very small schools that wouldn’t add anything. It already lost their big ones in Coastal and Liberty to FBS.

No telling who the commissioner of the football part, the UAC, will be.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 04:07 PM by NoDak.)
02-01-2020 12:24 AM
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