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OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
This isn’t about DII schools moving up. The timeline for that is too short and a new league wouldn’t qualify based on current rules. Even if the ASun wanted more FCS teams to stay there, their just isn’t enough incentive money wise. FCS to FBS schools like JMU and Stony Brook would have a lot of media following them.

Know Kennesaw St wanted FBS even before they started FCS. An old President said Kennesaw St would be in a Big East type FBS league someday. But they need a bigger stadium.

JMU is ready now. Stony Brook needs a small expansion, has said publically on their website that they want FBS, the school is top rated academically and is the type of school JMU wants to hang with. Albany and UNH have built new stadiums. Delaware renovated theirs. Jax St is ready. EKU was a finalist for the Belt but missed the cut. Chattanooga has recently expressed interest in FBS, although they were opposed before.

The expansion to 20 is truly historic and getting a new FCS league doesn’t swing far enough to be worth the risk. Only FBS does.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 04:03 PM by NoDak.)
02-01-2020 02:03 AM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 04:55 PM by MercerFan.)
02-01-2020 04:53 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?

Kennesaw St, UNF and FGCU are probably the leaders. The FL public’s obviously can’t go now, but the next decade if they start FCS, they would want the opportunity to go FBS, just like South Alabama did as it was a non fb member of the Belt and UT-Arlington can now. Stetson and Jacksonville worry if the other Florida schools go.

Any FBS related conference always gets a major upgrade in status.

In the CAA, a number of schools want FBS, but they are forbidden by internal CAA vote to go. The CAA has been nasty to schools that leave, as Ga State and ODU were forbidden even in the conference tournament for an NCAA bid to enter.

The CAA schools can just leave, but it would take eight years to qualify as a new conference, without any kind of NCAA recognition. This is the quickest way, as seven schools with eight years of continuity in the ASun just split off, leaving the other new schools as a new conference. It’s a deal where both the new new schools will enormously benefit, plus the old schools do as well.

JMU values relationships like Delaware and Stony Brook much more than the Sun Belt, so they refused to go there for FBS.

North Alabama and Jacksonville St want to be like Troy, which has greatly expanded enrollment since going FBS. West Alabama, another sister teacher’s college school, is almost beyond recovery because they haven’t even gone FCS. Football is such an cultural institution for Alabama college and probably Texas and zflorida ones too.

Said this was going to happen two years ago, but posters on the realignment board just laughed and mocked me. FCS won’t look the same as so many schools will reclassify. The FBS CFP payment will more than double in 2025, changing the financial risks associated with FBS vs after FCS. The WAC will get FCS schools from Texas and California and go FBS agin. The Summit will get the Montanas, Idaho, Weber St, and EWU, start FCS for the first time and go FBS.

Think NJIT will go to the America East, Bellarmine to the Horizon, and Lipscomb will go OVC all post split.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 07:28 PM by NoDak.)
02-01-2020 06:23 PM
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Post: #24
RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?

Liberty has an unlimited athletics budget and will increase tuition and fees at the blink of an eye. That is why no FBS conference will take them, they could easily outspend almost every university in the nation.

Kennesaw can't get ready. They aren't competitive in anything other than football. Last I saw their basketball team was 1-19.
02-01-2020 07:14 PM
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MercerFan Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 07:14 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?

Liberty has an unlimited athletics budget and will increase tuition and fees at the blink of an eye. That is why no FBS conference will take them, they could easily outspend almost every university in the nation.

Kennesaw can't get ready. They aren't competitive in anything other than football. Last I saw their basketball team was 1-19.

It's amazing how bad Kennesaw basketball has been in the D1 era. Their best teams were during the ineligible transition years.
02-01-2020 07:43 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 07:14 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?

Liberty has an unlimited athletics budget and will increase tuition and fees at the blink of an eye. That is why no FBS conference will take them, they could easily outspend almost every university in the nation.

Kennesaw can't get ready. They aren't competitive in anything other than football. Last I saw their basketball team was 1-19.

Kennesaw St has an enrollment of 37,000. A small fee increase will raise a lot of money,
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 07:45 PM by NoDak.)
02-01-2020 07:44 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 07:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 07:14 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 04:53 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  NoDak.. I agree with your thoughts on this. It makes sense that they're swinging for the fences with FBS if they are making this move. Here's my main follow up question though: How many schools within the current ASUN would actually be ready for FBS in the next few years? Obviously Liberty is already there. I'll assume Kennesaw State could get ready. Beyond those two, I don't see anyone else. North Alabama maybe as a longshot. Stetson highly unlikely to ever go that route. The rest of the ASUN doesn't even have football teams at all! So 2 teams in the ASUN would be FBS ready within 5 years (1 for sure). Why do I bring this up? Because if high prestige teams like JMU are looking to create a new FBS league, why in the world do they need the Atlantic Sun to do it for them? Why would you attach your high level brand to a conference that can't keep members and is consistently bottom ranked? Why wouldn't they form a league on their own and hire their own leaders to guide them into FBS? That's my main question. Is there really so much red tape that they needed to go through these crazy hoops with the CCSA conference to make this happen? Very interesting stuff!

And another question I'd have... Who is the leader of this idea? Is the Atlantic Sun creating a new league in hopes of attracting high level teams? Or are high level teams quietly instructing the A-Sun to create a new league for them?

Liberty has an unlimited athletics budget and will increase tuition and fees at the blink of an eye. That is why no FBS conference will take them, they could easily outspend almost every university in the nation.

Kennesaw can't get ready. They aren't competitive in anything other than football. Last I saw their basketball team was 1-19.

Kennesaw St has an enrollment of 37,000. A small fee increase will raise a lot of money,

Liberty's enrollment is 110,000 students. The joining fee for Conference USA is $2 million. Liberty offered them $24 million and they rejected Liberty CUSA rejected...

Liberty's athletic budget is north of $50 million and a $400 dollar per semester increase would put them in the elite spenders. Additionally, Liberty University reportedly actually makes more than $200 million each year, if they chose they could spend more than a $100 million on athletics and not raise fees at all. Kennesaw's is around $25 million and like most if not all public universities breaks even each year.

Liberty's current athletic budget is almost identical to BYU. Coincidence or are the following the BYU model?

Kennesaw's budget won't support FBS and Liberty has the potential to be too rich for FBS 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 08:36 PM by BucDoctor.)
02-01-2020 08:16 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
Whenever some one says so and so can’t afford FBs, refer than to ULM who has an FBS budget of $16 million.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...613233002/

Kennesaw certainly doesn’t have a P5 budget, but can afford a low G5 one like ULM.
02-01-2020 08:42 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 08:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Whenever some one says so and so can’t afford FBs, refer than to ULM who has an FBS budget of $16 million.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...613233002/

Kennesaw certainly doesn’t have a P5 budget, but can afford a low G5 one like ULM.

But would John Q Kennesaw Fan consider ULM to be an aspirational peer?

We are already seeing meaningless bowl games with low payouts touted as success...

Near to ETSU is Appalachian State University. They doubled their athletic budget (an additional $18 million) and play in bowl games that generate around a half a million for them. Add to that they aren't competitive in any other sport and ETSU has to pay them to come to Johnson City to play. Let that sink in, ETSU is a money game for Appalachian State basketball.

Just my opinion but I believe the advent of the national playoff has torpedoed the remaining FBS bowls.

I understand you folks want to move to FBS, just be careful what you ask for, i.e. don't follow the Appalachian State model :)
02-01-2020 08:53 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 08:53 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 08:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Whenever some one says so and so can’t afford FBs, refer than to ULM who has an FBS budget of $16 million.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...613233002/

Kennesaw certainly doesn’t have a P5 budget, but can afford a low G5 one like ULM.

But would John Q Kennesaw Fan consider ULM to be an aspirational peer?

We are already seeing meaningless bowl games with low payouts touted as success...

Near to ETSU is Appalachian State University. They doubled their athletic budget (an additional $18 million) and play in bowl games that generate around a half a million for them. Add to that they aren't competitive in any other sport and ETSU has to pay them to come to Johnson City to play. Let that sink in, ETSU is a money game for Appalachian State basketball.

Just my opinion but I believe the advent of the national playoff has torpedoed the remaining FBS bowls.

I understand you folks want to move to FBS, just be careful what you ask for, i.e. don't follow the Appalachian State model :)
No one considers ULM that aspirational, except that it is FBS.

Appy St finished rated this year and it’s name brand is worth much more than when it was FCS. FBS makes any school much more $ worthy from a news and sports standpoint, as the FBS schools get so much more publicity.

Appy State is considered great for the Sun Belt. That’s probably not good enough for some.

In the future, FBS and high Major mbb could be a new dividing line for the NCAA: those that fall below would be the new D2.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 09:49 PM by NoDak.)
02-01-2020 09:45 PM
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RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 09:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 08:53 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 08:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Whenever some one says so and so can’t afford FBs, refer than to ULM who has an FBS budget of $16 million.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...613233002/

Kennesaw certainly doesn’t have a P5 budget, but can afford a low G5 one like ULM.

But would John Q Kennesaw Fan consider ULM to be an aspirational peer?

We are already seeing meaningless bowl games with low payouts touted as success...

Near to ETSU is Appalachian State University. They doubled their athletic budget (an additional $18 million) and play in bowl games that generate around a half a million for them. Add to that they aren't competitive in any other sport and ETSU has to pay them to come to Johnson City to play. Let that sink in, ETSU is a money game for Appalachian State basketball.

Just my opinion but I believe the advent of the national playoff has torpedoed the remaining FBS bowls.

I understand you folks want to move to FBS, just be careful what you ask for, i.e. don't follow the Appalachian State model :)
No one considers ULM that aspirational, except that it is FBS.

Appy St finished rated this year and it’s name brand is worth much more than when it was FCS. FBS makes any school much more $ worthy from a news and sports standpoint, as the FBS schools get so much more publicity.

Appy State is considered great for the Sun Belt. That’s probably not good enough for some.

In the future, FBS and high Major mbb could be a new dividing line for the NCAA: those that fall below would be the new D2.

I understand your point but would submit that the new D2 is already established. It is everyone who isn't in a P5 conference. That is where the money is and will remain. Just my opinion and others' mules mileage may differ.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2020 11:05 PM by BucDoctor.)
02-01-2020 11:04 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: A-Sun Expansion (to 20 teams!?!)
(02-01-2020 11:04 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 09:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 08:53 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 08:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Whenever some one says so and so can’t afford FBs, refer than to ULM who has an FBS budget of $16 million.

https://www.thenewsstar.com/story/sports...613233002/

Kennesaw certainly doesn’t have a P5 budget, but can afford a low G5 one like ULM.

But would John Q Kennesaw Fan consider ULM to be an aspirational peer?

We are already seeing meaningless bowl games with low payouts touted as success...

Near to ETSU is Appalachian State University. They doubled their athletic budget (an additional $18 million) and play in bowl games that generate around a half a million for them. Add to that they aren't competitive in any other sport and ETSU has to pay them to come to Johnson City to play. Let that sink in, ETSU is a money game for Appalachian State basketball.

Just my opinion but I believe the advent of the national playoff has torpedoed the remaining FBS bowls.

I understand you folks want to move to FBS, just be careful what you ask for, i.e. don't follow the Appalachian State model :)
No one considers ULM that aspirational, except that it is FBS.

Appy St finished rated this year and it’s name brand is worth much more than when it was FCS. FBS makes any school much more $ worthy from a news and sports standpoint, as the FBS schools get so much more publicity.

Appy State is considered great for the Sun Belt. That’s probably not good enough for some.

In the future, FBS and high Major mbb could be a new dividing line for the NCAA: those that fall below would be the new D2.

I understand your point but would submit that the new D2 is already established. It is everyone who isn't in a P5 conference. That is where the money is and will remain. Just my opinion and others' mules mileage may differ.

Understand you point, but the g5 take of CFP payments and FBS publicity awareness so outranks FCS even now, that a move could actually have a good ROI compared to what FCS gives now.
02-01-2020 11:43 PM
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