The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

There's not a single fan on this board that wouldn't take that run Shaka had. We would be real obnoxious about it too.

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

He struggled (relatively) the first two and a half seasons and some VCU fans (the ones with low reservoirs of patience) were ready to move on. The end, well, you see what a Shaka team with Shaka players can do. Are you really holding it against him that he didn't immediately have a top-20 team? Using your metrics, he held Grant's numbers and then built off of them. That's not compelling evidence that he's not a good coach, or even that he's an overrated one.

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

I see all these numbers you minimize and out of the 14 numbers in the totality of all those coaches work, there is only one up there that JJ has beaten in 7 years. So if none of them did a great job, why are you so intent on defending JJ's?

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

Shouldn't we weight his last 3 years more than his first 3 years since it takes a little time to build something, and there is a clear trend of improvement over the entire tenure?

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

For a supposed numbers geek you certainly have no clue whatsoever how to properly interpret them lol.

We’d all KILL for Shaka’s numbers, Jones hasn’t even come close to sniffing what he did at vcu.

(01-28-2020 03:43 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 11:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lets not forget that Shaka's miracle F4 run made his efforts at VCU look a lot better than they actually were. They certainly weren't bad and it was a step up from Grant, but they were at best a borderline top 25 team outside of 13.

Grant:
52
68
54

Smart:
56
53
46
18
25
30

Wade:
31
48

Rhoades:
144
42
43

This statement is odd, considering the numbers you just posted. Shaka averaged #21 over his last three years. None of the others have a 3 year stretch even close to that... and there is a HUGE jump between mid 40s and 50s and top 25.

Im not referring to a 3 year stretch. Im referring to the totality of their work. People talk about Shaka at VCU like they were a great team; they had 2 top 25 teams....like I said still good for a mid major but not a special program.

Shouldn't we weight his last 3 years more than his first 3 years since it takes a little time to build something, and there is a clear trend of improvement over the entire tenure?

So he got them to a borderline top 25 team. That supports what contention that he did well at VCU but there seems to be a perception that they were much better bc of the F4 run.

A better way to analyze it would be how often did they make the NCAA tourney under Capel?

How often under grant?

How often under Shaka and then right after he left?

Shaka is the best coach they’ve had and it isn’t really close in my opinion.

He leaped them into NCAA every year or bust status.

(01-28-2020 10:55 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  A better way to analyze it would be how often did they make the NCAA tourney under Capel?

How often under grant?

How often under Shaka and then right after he left?

Shaka is the best coach they’ve had and it isn’t really close in my opinion.

He leaped them into NCAA every year or bust status.

In fairness to Capel, he had to build VCU back from the late Sonny Smith/Mack McCarthy years, which were very pedestrian outside of a 1996 CAA title they won with upperclassmen recruited to play Louisville and good-era Tulane, not American and W&M. Grant had the advantage of taking Capel's team, and Shaka got to stand on both their shoulders.