Note that the "base payout" to the A5 conferences has risen from $54m to $66m as the CFP contract escalates over time. Also, these numbers do NOT include payments for other non-CFP bowl games:

1) SEC

$66m ..... Base payout
$40m ..... Sugar Bowl
$27.5m .. Orange Bowl
$6m ....... LSU playoff

Total .... $139.5m

2) B1G

$66m .... Base payout
$40m .... Rose Bowl
$6m ...... OST playoff
$4m ...... Cotton Bowl

Total ....... $116m

3) Big 12

$66m ...... Base Payout
$40m ...... Sugar Bowl
$6m ........ OK playoff

Total ........ $112m

4) PAC

$66m ..... Base Payout
$40m ..... Rose Bowl

Total ... $106m

5) ACC

$66m ...... Base Payout
$27.5m ... Orange Bowl
$6m ........ Clemson playoff

Total ..... $99.5m


6) American

$18m ..... Base G5 payout (additional amount for being top conference)
$4m ....... Cotton Bowl

Total ..... $22m

7) Other G5

$18m .... Base G5 payout


8) Notre Dame .... $3.2m

9) Other FBS Independents .... $983,000

Source: Forbes

B12 11.2m per team
SEC 9.93m per team
P12 8.83m per team
B10 8.28m per team
ACC 7.11m per team

(01-21-2020 12:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Note that the "base payout" to the A5 conferences has risen from $54m to $66m as the CFP contract escalates over time. Also, these numbers do NOT include payments for other non-CFP bowl games:

1) SEC

$66m ..... Base payout
$40m ..... Sugar Bowl
$27.5m .. Orange Bowl
$6m ....... LSU playoff

Total .... $139.5m

2) B1G

$66m .... Base payout
$40m .... Rose Bowl
$6m ...... OST playoff
$4m ...... Cotton Bowl

Total ....... $116m

3) Big 12

$66m ...... Base Payout
$40m ...... Sugar Bowl
$6m ........ OK playoff

Total ........ $112m

4) PAC

$66m ..... Base Payout
$40m ..... Rose Bowl

Total ... $106m

5) ACC

$66m ...... Base Payout
$27.5m ... Orange Bowl
$6m ........ Clemson playoff

Total ..... $99.5m


6) American

$18m ..... Base G5 payout (additional amount for being top conference)
$4m ....... Cotton Bowl

Total ..... $22m

7) Other G5

$18m .... Base G5 payout


8) Notre Dame .... $3.2m

9) Other FBS Independents .... $983,000

Source: Forbes

This is a good microcosm of the differences between the P5 conferences. Divide the SEC and Big 10 numbers by 15 and you have a rough number for the per team share in both conferences. Do the same by 13 for the PAC and by 11 for the Big 12 and by 15 for the ACC and compare them.

It's not perfect but the 5 conference offices take roughly a full share of all media revenue. The Big 12 will have the highest per school payout because they have only 10 schools. And this is why they won't add anymore, but also why they remain vulnerable to future expansion. It's not profitable for them to add more schools, but the difference between the top 2 in that conference and the rest is stark in terms of all other forms of revenue and in terms of national branding, which does make them more vulnerable.

In the SEC there is a slightly larger share for the actual participants, but the numbers illustrate the present divide, and in the case of the Big 12 illustrate their current danged if you and danged if you don't situation.

(01-21-2020 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  B12 11.2m per team
SEC 9.93m per team
P12 8.83m per team
B10 8.28m per team
ACC 7.11m per team

Yes, and the AAC is at about $2m per team.

In that sense, Notre Dame, at $3.2m, is much more of a CFP money "G" than a "P".

(01-21-2020 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This is a good microcosm of the differences between the P5 conferences. Divide the SEC and Big 10 numbers by 15 and you have a rough number for the per team share in both conferences. Do the same by 13 for the PAC and by 11 for the Big 12 and by 15 for the ACC and compare them.

My understanding of the ACC/ND agreement is that ND does not share in the base ACC CFP revenue. In years where they play in the ACC bowl hierarchy, like this past year, they do share in the ACC bowl pool money, but they have a separate contractually-defined CFP amount, which right now is about $3.2m.

(01-21-2020 01:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This is a good microcosm of the differences between the P5 conferences. Divide the SEC and Big 10 numbers by 15 and you have a rough number for the per team share in both conferences. Do the same by 13 for the PAC and by 11 for the Big 12 and by 15 for the ACC and compare them.

My understanding of the ACC/ND agreement is that ND does not share in the base ACC CFP revenue. In years where they play in the ACC bowl hierarchy, like this past year, they do share in the ACC bowl pool money, but they have a separate contractually-defined CFP amount, which right now is about $3.2m.

I believe the conference itself gets a share which is why JR said divide the SEC, B1G, and ACC by 15, the PAC by 13, and the XII by 11.

(01-21-2020 01:18 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 01:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This is a good microcosm of the differences between the P5 conferences. Divide the SEC and Big 10 numbers by 15 and you have a rough number for the per team share in both conferences. Do the same by 13 for the PAC and by 11 for the Big 12 and by 15 for the ACC and compare them.

My understanding of the ACC/ND agreement is that ND does not share in the base ACC CFP revenue. In years where they play in the ACC bowl hierarchy, like this past year, they do share in the ACC bowl pool money, but they have a separate contractually-defined CFP amount, which right now is about $3.2m.

I believe the conference itself gets a share which is why JR said divide the SEC, B1G, and ACC by 15, the PAC by 13, and the XII by 11.

Alright, I missed that.

Here's a link to LAST YEAR's numbers
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champio...bution.pdf
on the NCAA Post Season Bowl Administration page
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/postse...nistration

I'm now unclear on whether those numbers include the bowl-to-conference payments, or just "base" plus NY6 payments.
The NCAA info comes out in April-May timeframes.

For the non-contract-bowl conferences, last year's numbers, totalling $91M can be reverse engineered to
BASE: $12.655M
Performance Shares (five for best down to one for last): $1.474M
NY6 Bowl: $4M
NY6 Bowl Expenses (for the team, but paid via conference): $2M

So expect to see
AAC $26M
mwc $18.6M
SunBelt $17.1M
CUSA $15.7M
MAC $14.3M

(01-21-2020 01:31 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Here's a link to LAST YEAR's numbers
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champio...bution.pdf
on the NCAA Post Season Bowl Administration page
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/postse...nistration

The numbers you and Forbes show would be about a 45% increase over last year, and I know Forbes has gotten some stuff wrong on this before.
The NCAA info comes out in April-May timeframes.

For the non-contract-bowl conferences, last year's numbers, totalling $91M can be reverse engineered to
BASE: $12.655M
Performance Shares (five for best down to one for last): $1.474M
NY6 Bowl: $4M
NY6 Bowl Expenses (for the team, but paid via conference): $2M

So expect to see
AAC $26M
mwc $18.6M
SunBelt $17.1M
CUSA $15.7M
MAC $14.3M

good point on the G5 distro. It's not a flat distro plus the NY6 game.

The big 12 seems to do pretty well for itself by only having to divide up bowl money and NCAA tournament credits 10 ways instead of 14.

I know it makes for a small footprint, but makes up for it in other areas.

(01-21-2020 01:40 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 01:31 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  Here's a link to LAST YEAR's numbers
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champio...bution.pdf
on the NCAA Post Season Bowl Administration page
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/postse...nistration

The numbers you and Forbes show would be about a 45% increase over last year, and I know Forbes has gotten some stuff wrong on this before.
The NCAA info comes out in April-May timeframes.

For the non-contract-bowl conferences, last year's numbers, totalling $91M can be reverse engineered to
BASE: $12.655M
Performance Shares (five for best down to one for last): $1.474M
NY6 Bowl: $4M
NY6 Bowl Expenses (for the team, but paid via conference): $2M

So expect to see
AAC $26M
mwc $18.6M
SunBelt $17.1M
CUSA $15.7M
MAC $14.3M

good point on the G5 distro. It's not a flat distro plus the NY6 game.

Its 5/15 to the top conference (AAC this year)
4/15 to the 2nd (MWC this year)
3/15 to the 3rd (SB this year)
2/15 to the 4th (probably CUSA this year)
1/15 to the 5th (probably MAC)

(01-21-2020 12:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Note that the "base payout" to the A5 conferences has risen from $54m to $66m as the CFP contract escalates over time. Also, these numbers do NOT include payments for other non-CFP bowl games:

1) SEC

$66m ..... Base payout
$40m ..... Sugar Bowl
$27.5m .. Orange Bowl
$6m ....... LSU playoff

Total .... $139.5m

2) B1G

$66m .... Base payout
$40m .... Rose Bowl
$6m ...... OST playoff
$4m ...... Cotton Bowl

Total ....... $116m

3) Big 12

$66m ...... Base Payout
$40m ...... Sugar Bowl
$6m ........ OK playoff

Total ........ $112m

4) PAC

$66m ..... Base Payout
$40m ..... Rose Bowl

Total ... $106m

5) ACC

$66m ...... Base Payout
$27.5m ... Orange Bowl
$6m ........ Clemson playoff

Total ..... $99.5m


6) American

$18m ..... Base G5 payout (additional amount for being top conference)
$4m ....... Cotton Bowl

Total ..... $22m

7) Other G5

$18m .... Base G5 payout


8) Notre Dame .... $3.2m

9) Other FBS Independents .... $983,000

Source: Forbes

With respect to the G5, the 18 million base is just an average. The performance bonus means every G5 has a differing amount. Last I heard, the final amount for each conference is based on---- 10 million per conference+performance bonus (from a fund of about 35 million) + any access bowl monies. That would put the AAC just short of 26 million (sadly, not even quite what the old Big East earned in the old BCS system).

(01-21-2020 05:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 12:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Note that the "base payout" to the A5 conferences has risen from $54m to $66m as the CFP contract escalates over time. Also, these numbers do NOT include payments for other non-CFP bowl games:

1) SEC

$66m ..... Base payout
$40m ..... Sugar Bowl
$27.5m .. Orange Bowl
$6m ....... LSU playoff

Total .... $139.5m

2) B1G

$66m .... Base payout
$40m .... Rose Bowl
$6m ...... OST playoff
$4m ...... Cotton Bowl

Total ....... $116m

3) Big 12

$66m ...... Base Payout
$40m ...... Sugar Bowl
$6m ........ OK playoff

Total ........ $112m

4) PAC

$66m ..... Base Payout
$40m ..... Rose Bowl

Total ... $106m

5) ACC

$66m ...... Base Payout
$27.5m ... Orange Bowl
$6m ........ Clemson playoff

Total ..... $99.5m


6) American

$18m ..... Base G5 payout (additional amount for being top conference)
$4m ....... Cotton Bowl

Total ..... $22m

7) Other G5

$18m .... Base G5 payout


8) Notre Dame .... $3.2m

9) Other FBS Independents .... $983,000

Source: Forbes

With respect to the G5, the 18 million base is just an average. The performance bonus means every G5 has a differing amount. Last I heard, the final amount for each conference is based on---- 10 million per conference+performance bonus (from a fund of about 35 million) + any access bowl monies. That would put the AAC just short of 26 million (sadly, not even quite what the old Big East earned in the old BCS system).

Yes, the $18m for G5 is an average, some will get more others less based on the performance money distribution. That's why i had that note about the AAC getting more as the top conference.

It will probably be $15m for everyone, then the 5-4-3-2-1 distribution for merit. So e.g. the AAC would get $15m + $5m as top conference + $4m for the Cotton Bowl or around $24m. CUSA at the bottom would just get the base $15m + $1m for last place or $16m total.

Or something similar.

One thing interesting about the payouts is that for the G5, the money is a significantly larger percentage of their overall conference and media payouts than it is for P5, even though P5 get a lot more total dollars.

E.g., for an AAC team, if the AAC gets $24m from the CFP, that is more than they get for their entire current media deal. So the CFP cash is more than 50% of the overall conference payout.

For a B1G team, even though the B1G is getting $116m, their total conference payout per school is about $55m, and the CFP check is worth about $8m per school, a much smaller percentage of overall payout.

(01-21-2020 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  One thing interesting about the payouts is that for the G5, the money is a significantly larger percentage of their overall conference and media payouts than it is for P5, even though P5 get a lot more total dollars.

E.g., for an AAC team, if the AAC gets $24m from the CFP, that is more than they get for their entire current media deal. So the CFP cash is more than 50% of the overall conference payout.

For a B1G team, even though the B1G is getting $116m, their total conference payout per school is about $55m, and the CFP check is worth about $8m per school, a much smaller percentage of overall payout.

Another important point whenever we see these numbers is how much the P5 conferences receive from their consolation contract bowls compared to the playoff itself. Any change to the system that we have in the future needs to be able to expand upon that guaranteed revenue.

(01-21-2020 07:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  One thing interesting about the payouts is that for the G5, the money is a significantly larger percentage of their overall conference and media payouts than it is for P5, even though P5 get a lot more total dollars.

E.g., for an AAC team, if the AAC gets $24m from the CFP, that is more than they get for their entire current media deal. So the CFP cash is more than 50% of the overall conference payout.

For a B1G team, even though the B1G is getting $116m, their total conference payout per school is about $55m, and the CFP check is worth about $8m per school, a much smaller percentage of overall payout.

Another important point whenever we see these numbers is how much the P5 conferences receive from their consolation contract bowls compared to the playoff itself. Any change to the system that we have in the future needs to be able to expand upon that guaranteed revenue.

That's an issue for going to 8, the $40 million the SEC, Big 12, Pac 12 and Big 10 get for the Sugar and Rose and the $27.5 the ACC gets and Big 10/SEC share for the Orange.

Those payouts are probably how the Rose guarantees B1G vs PAC and Sugar guarantees SEC in a quarterfinal. Whereas, the Orange and Cotton will be playing roulette.

(01-21-2020 11:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Those payouts are probably how the Rose guarantees B1G vs PAC and Sugar guarantees SEC in a quarterfinal. Whereas, the Orange and Cotton will be playing roulette.

except that it's going to be fully seeded. TV has absolutely no interest in top teams playing before the semifinals and championships. And SEC, ACC, and Big 12 have no interest in giving the Big Ten/Pac 12 a competitive advantage like would have been in 2018- where #6 Ohio St would play #9 Washington while you'd have #3 and #4 playing each other along with #2 playing #5. That's a non starter.

We aren't going backwards. And that's exactly what a non seeded quarter final would be.

(01-21-2020 11:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 11:55 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Those payouts are probably how the Rose guarantees B1G vs PAC and Sugar guarantees SEC in a quarterfinal. Whereas, the Orange and Cotton will be playing roulette.

except that it's going to be fully seeded. TV has absolutely no interest in top teams playing before the semifinals and championships. And SEC, ACC, and Big 12 have no interest in giving the Big Ten/Pac 12 a competitive advantage like would have been in 2018- where #6 Ohio St would play #9 Washington while you'd have #3 and #4 playing each other along with #2 playing #5. That's a non starter.

We aren't going backwards. And that's exactly what a non seeded quarter final would be.

It would work the other way many years too where you could have two seeds in the Rose playing higher than they should. The first year of the CFP would have had #2 Oregon vs. #4 Ohio State (what ended up being the championship game).

I think a good rules would be that if both teams in a bowl are both in top 3 (maybe avoid 1or 2 vs. 4 too) the lower gets moved out. You could also put something in the other way if the two champs are 2 of the 3 lowest one gets moved too. I'd rather not have the latter one but it could be a compromise.

If expansion happens, I think it has to be this way, or the bowls essentially lose the last bit of meaning they have. We can certainly disagree there but thats more important to me than having it be seeded perfectly just to be seeded perfectly. Having the champs still mostly compete for one bowl, saves an element of college football history that I like (and we are kind of missing now with 4 actually).

(01-21-2020 07:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-21-2020 06:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  One thing interesting about the payouts is that for the G5, the money is a significantly larger percentage of their overall conference and media payouts than it is for P5, even though P5 get a lot more total dollars.

E.g., for an AAC team, if the AAC gets $24m from the CFP, that is more than they get for their entire current media deal. So the CFP cash is more than 50% of the overall conference payout.

For a B1G team, even though the B1G is getting $116m, their total conference payout per school is about $55m, and the CFP check is worth about $8m per school, a much smaller percentage of overall payout.

Another important point whenever we see these numbers is how much the P5 conferences receive from their consolation contract bowls compared to the playoff itself. Any change to the system that we have in the future needs to be able to expand upon that guaranteed revenue.

Yes, e.g. the SEC, which has the best non-CFP bowl ties, will get about $18m this year from all of the Belk and Outback and Gator and Citrus bowls they play in, which is above and beyond the CFP and Contract Bowls.

$18m is about $1.4m per school, so it's something.