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American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
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quo vadis Offline
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American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners in "on the field" terms.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 11:29 AM by quo vadis.)
01-21-2020 11:13 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
Congrats to the AAC.

I would say more tweeners as far as football power (But ACC still has the $$$$$ and A5 status).
01-21-2020 11:24 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 11:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Congrats to the AAC.

I would say more tweeners as far as football power (But ACC still has the $$$$$ and A5 status).

Yes, this is strictly speaking in terms of performance. In actual status the ACC is A5 and the AAC is not A5, of course.
01-21-2020 11:31 AM
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YNot Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.
01-21-2020 11:32 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 11:32 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.

It seems pretty clear that on the field, the ACC performed as a 'tweener' conference this year.

That's not a general trend, usually they are clearly P5 on the field as they are in all other ways (money, fans, etc.). But this year, their on field performance was a tweener.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 11:41 AM by quo vadis.)
01-21-2020 11:40 AM
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Garrettabc Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
Until the AAC can do that for several more years, then the AAC will just remain a Pee6.
01-21-2020 11:54 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
The A5 is a private club within a the FBS, I never want to see the AAC join that crappy committee controlled club , I do want to see a real college football championship that all 10 conferences play for and a bunch more money for our great AAC
01-21-2020 12:54 PM
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 11:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:32 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.

It seems pretty clear that on the field, the ACC performed as a 'tweener' conference this year.

That's not a general trend, usually they are clearly P5 on the field as they are in all other ways (money, fans, etc.). But this year, their on field performance was a tweener.


The performance was better than "tweener". It was P5. That said, I also think there is obviously more to being a "P5" than on field performance. Money, exposure, attendance, brand, tv ratings, contract bowl, etc.

When you figure all that stuff in, I think the "tweener" designation is pretty accurate. The process of separating from the rest of the G5 appears to be continuing for the AAC. I think the concept of the AAC as a "tweener conference" is a viewpoint that is certainly becoming accepted by a growing portion of the fandom of college sports.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 01:09 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-21-2020 01:06 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 01:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:32 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.

It seems pretty clear that on the field, the ACC performed as a 'tweener' conference this year.

That's not a general trend, usually they are clearly P5 on the field as they are in all other ways (money, fans, etc.). But this year, their on field performance was a tweener.


The performance was better than "tweener". It was P5. That said, I also think there is obviously more to being a P5 than on field performance. Money, exposure, attendance, brand, tv ratings, etc.

When you figure all that stuff in, I think the "tweener" designation is pretty accurate.

I disagree on both counts. On the field, looking at the MC numbers, while the AAC did move significantly ahead of the nearest G5, the way they beat out the ACC was because the ACC also fell significantly below the other P5. The ACC kind of met the AAC halfway, so to speak. So the ACC and AAC constituted a distinct grouping, neither P nor G, thus tweener.

Second, when we factor in all the other stuff, the AAC is not a tweener but rather firmly G5. That's their formal status as part of the NCAA "non-autonomous" grouping, and in terms of payouts and structure within the CFP. And their media money and fan support are both much closer to "G" level than "P" level.
01-21-2020 01:11 PM
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ArmoredUpKnight Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
One of the best seasons for the AAC

One of the worst seasons for the ACC

Margin 0.33

I’d be surprised if the AAC can sustain the success with the rotating door of coaches. ACC is more likely to bounce back. They have the bigger brands, better tv deal, grant of rights, better bowl agreements, AQ for NY6 bowl...
01-21-2020 01:15 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
It was an outstanding football season for the AAC, which is nicely establishing itself as an annual "tweener" football league.

However, I don't ever foresee the league being a true "power conference" in football due to its lack of a blueblood program, its so-so collective attendance, its athletic department budgets (all under $60M) and its lack of a sufficient number of high-major programs (though there are some).

I basically see AAC football as a "semi-P5." I'm very impressed and pleased with the progress of the league in football. Now in men's basketball ... disappointed. The league has underachieved since Day One.
01-21-2020 01:36 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
What was the head to head record?

Pitt and UNC won

Cincinnati beat BC

Can’t think of anything else. Computer formulas just tell part of the story.
01-21-2020 01:40 PM
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megadrone Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 01:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  What was the head to head record?

Pitt and UNC won

Cincinnati beat BC

Can’t think of anything else. Computer formulas just tell part of the story.

It was also just one year. if that happened for a few successive years then there's something good brewing in the AAC
01-21-2020 01:46 PM
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 01:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:32 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.

It seems pretty clear that on the field, the ACC performed as a 'tweener' conference this year.

That's not a general trend, usually they are clearly P5 on the field as they are in all other ways (money, fans, etc.). But this year, their on field performance was a tweener.


The performance was better than "tweener". It was P5. That said, I also think there is obviously more to being a "P5" than on field performance. Money, exposure, attendance, brand, tv ratings, contract bowl, etc.

When you figure all that stuff in, I think the "tweener" designation is pretty accurate. The process of separating from the rest of the G5 appears to be continuing for the AAC. I think the concept of the AAC as a "tweener conference" is a viewpoint that is certainly becoming accepted by a growing portion of the fandom of college sports.

Big East 2.0 was a BCS conference, but it was also a "tweener." AAC is trying to get back to that "tweener" level.
01-21-2020 01:50 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
The AAC is a 'tweener conference. But it's doing so on heavy spending and borrowing. Rutgers and UConn followed the same strategy, with Rutgers successfully getting into the Big Ten, UConn however did not. The thing that distinguishes them from American schools is that they are flagships.

The American will likely see the same pressures in coming years as the MWC already experienced. Boise State has reigned in it's budget growth such that they have the lowest institutional transfer % by a wide margin in G5 (it's a model that should be followed by almost every G5 school, staying within your means, being disciplined in spending, demanding bang for the buck from your programs and working the fan base). USF and ECU seem to have opted for this direction, and neither Tulane nor Tulsa feel compelled to spend to the moon to keep up with the power schools. UCF, Houston, Memphis and Cincy are spending like no tomorrow. My WAG is this will show up in the performances --and to some extent it already has-- in the next half dozen years. They are spending to keep in the B12 replacement school race.

Performance is tied to spending levels and the American is solidly in the zone just below the bottom dozen P5 spenders. And we do see schools in this price range of the P5 high perform from time to time, so it's no shock on a G5 schedule that some American schools perform very high (much harder to stand up week after week on a P5 schedule, but I'm not saying a 11-1 UCF would go 4-8 in a P5 conference, more like 8-4 and in the hunt)

The basic reason for the gap, and why they are a 'twener is revenues, pure and simple. There is a $25m gap in media revenue to the bottom of the P5, and that requires deficit spending to close. This gap will grow to about $35m annually by the middle of the decade.
01-21-2020 01:50 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
The ACC has better hope that they can reverse this trend. In 2037 no one is going to pay P Money for a tweener league and the high value programs will rush to the conferences that can deliver them financial security.
01-21-2020 02:08 PM
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kevinwmsn Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
AAC football had a very good year. I wonder how bad the ACC composite would be without Clemson. The ACC needs a couple of teams with 10+ wins every season. Florida State and Miami have been down. Did Louisville hit their ceiling when they had Lamar Jackson and not get that good for awhile?
01-21-2020 02:22 PM
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Exclamation RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
Congratulations to the American Athletic Conference - GREAT SEASON!

Yes, the ACC had a bad football season, but
(a) that shouldn't take away from what the AAC accomplished, and
(b) the ACC needs to get its stuff together and do better in 2020!
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 02:33 PM by Hokie Mark.)
01-21-2020 02:33 PM
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners in "on the field" terms.

No autonomy, no P
01-21-2020 03:01 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: American Athletic finishes ahead of ACC in Massey Composite
(01-21-2020 01:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 01:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:32 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 11:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's been a week since the national title game so the MC results are probably final now. These are the complete post-bowl MC rankings:

1) SEC ... 42.97
2) B12 ... 46.60
3) B1G ... 48.90
4) PAC .... 49.53

5) AAC .... 60.29
6) ACC .... 60.62


7) MWC ... 74.35

So the AAC beats out a P5 conference, that had never happened before. Does that make the AAC a "P6"? Given the gap between both the other "P" and the AAC/ACC, probably best to say the ACC was a "G6" conference on the field this year.

Or better yet that both were tweeners. So we had a P4, a G4, and two tweeners.

You can't call the ACC a tweener because....Clemson.

The consistent presence in the top-10 rankings is still a distinguishing factor for the P5, along with the attendance, TV ratings, fan support, etc.:

Top-10
SEC = 4
B1G = 2
PAC = 1
ACC = 1
B12 = 1

But, the AAC has firmly established itself as a tweener...with another NY6 bid and FOUR teams in the final top-25.

It seems pretty clear that on the field, the ACC performed as a 'tweener' conference this year.

That's not a general trend, usually they are clearly P5 on the field as they are in all other ways (money, fans, etc.). But this year, their on field performance was a tweener.


The performance was better than "tweener". It was P5. That said, I also think there is obviously more to being a "P5" than on field performance. Money, exposure, attendance, brand, tv ratings, contract bowl, etc.

When you figure all that stuff in, I think the "tweener" designation is pretty accurate. The process of separating from the rest of the G5 appears to be continuing for the AAC. I think the concept of the AAC as a "tweener conference" is a viewpoint that is certainly becoming accepted by a growing portion of the fandom of college sports.

Big East 2.0 was a BCS conference, but it was also a "tweener." AAC is trying to get back to that "tweener" level.

Big East 2.0 was a full-fledged Power in terms of results on the field.
01-21-2020 03:14 PM
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