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Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #1
Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
This debate always puzzles me.

CBS Sports' Jerry Palm fields a question from a poster who seemingly thinks Gonzaga is a "mid-major." Then Palm notes he recently chatted with somebody who characterized the Big East's Butler as a "mid-major."

Palm, to his credit, makes clear Gonzaga is a a major program. And he also notes he tries to steer clear of using the term mid-major. But then he classifies BYU and VCU as "mid-majors" (with which I strongly disagree). He also fails to make clear Dayton and San Diego State are major programs.

I have noted in the past that as a former college sports journalist (and still in the media) I continue to this day to occasionally hear people who say the Big East is not a power conference (which I feel is absurd) and that Gonzaga is a "mid-major" (equally absurd). They argue that if you are "not fully in the comprehensive and exclusive P5 club," you cannot be "partially of that club." I strongly disagree.

College basketball is very unlike college football. You can have a high-major program that is not a member of a P6 league (I put the Big East with the P5 in hoops). And Gonzaga, VCU, Dayton and at least 15 others have proved that.

Still, some folks don't see it that way. It baffles me.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...rojection/

From the Palm piece:

Q: Excluding Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton, who are your top 5 mid-majors when it comes to chances for an at-large berth? — from @mikezor052588

A: Ah, my least favorite word in college basketball -- "Mid-major". I don't use it because it is too vaguely defined. For instance, someone I was talking to this past week referred to Butler as a mid-major. That's a tough sell. Yes, Butler was in the Horizon League not that long ago, but the Bulldogs are in the Big East now. Gonzaga is a major program in a non-major conference. The A-10 is often a multiple-bid league, but does not have the depth of quality like the major conferences.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2020 10:18 PM by bill dazzle.)
01-20-2020 10:15 PM
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Garrettabc Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
I found it hard to define “mid-major”.
01-20-2020 10:53 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
The there levels to me are Power, Major and Mid-Major.

Power: P5 + BE
Major: G5 + A10/WCC/MVC?
Mid-Major: Everyone else.

I don't think the label mid-major is disrespectful but I do think low-major is. It doesn't matter when a team can come out of any conference and win a NCAA tournament game.

While the performance doesn't merit much right now if you compare the SBC to the OVC or ASun as a G5 spread from the Carolinas to Texas its on a different level. Second tier compared to the third tier situation.
01-20-2020 11:16 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-20-2020 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The there levels to me are Power, Major and Mid-Major.

Power: P5 + BE
Major: G5 + A10/WCC/MVC?
Mid-Major: Everyone else.

I don't think the label mid-major is disrespectful but I do think low-major is. It doesn't matter when a team can come out of any conference and win a NCAA tournament game.

While the performance doesn't merit much right now if you compare the SBC to the OVC or ASun as a G5 spread from the Carolinas to Texas its on a different level. Second tier compared to the third tier situation.


Just because the Sun Belt, etc play FBS ball, it doesn’t put their hoops in the mid level

Three tiers:

P6/7. (AAC is almost there)

Other conferences that regularly get multi-bids - A10, WCC, Maybe MWC

Single-bid conferences
01-20-2020 11:33 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
They are in multi-bid leagues that are not the P7. So yeah, by definition they're a mid-major.

P7
Mid-Majors
1 bid leagues
01-21-2020 02:04 AM
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lion1983 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
Does it really matter?

What about a P5 school that historically has a crappy program?

Or a "Mid Major" that traditionally has a great program?

These terms are just something that the media likes to use to add flavor to a story. Example, if a "Mid Major" program beats a half way decent P5 program, they put it on sports center and make a big deal out of it, and usually, not in a good way, they still figure out how to make it that the P5 school just had a bad day and the "Mid Major" program dont get any credit.

Gonzaga is a big time program. Dont matter what conference they are in. VCU is a good program. Liberty is a good program. South Carolina got beat by Stetson...

Who gives a crap about a lable?
01-21-2020 02:41 AM
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Post: #7
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-20-2020 10:15 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This debate always puzzles me.

CBS Sports' Jerry Palm fields a question from a poster who seemingly thinks Gonzaga is a "mid-major." Then Palm notes he recently chatted with somebody who characterized the Big East's Butler as a "mid-major."

Palm, to his credit, makes clear Gonzaga is a a major program. And he also notes he tries to steer clear of using the term mid-major. But then he classifies BYU and VCU as "mid-majors" (with which I strongly disagree). He also fails to make clear Dayton and San Diego State are major programs.

I have noted in the past that as a former college sports journalist (and still in the media) I continue to this day to occasionally hear people who say the Big East is not a power conference (which I feel is absurd) and that Gonzaga is a "mid-major" (equally absurd). They argue that if you are "not fully in the comprehensive and exclusive P5 club," you cannot be "partially of that club." I strongly disagree.

College basketball is very unlike college football. You can have a high-major program that is not a member of a P6 league (I put the Big East with the P5 in hoops). And Gonzaga, VCU, Dayton and at least 15 others have proved that.

Still, some folks don't see it that way. It baffles me.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...rojection/

From the Palm piece:

Q: Excluding Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton, who are your top 5 mid-majors when it comes to chances for an at-large berth? — from @mikezor052588

A: Ah, my least favorite word in college basketball -- "Mid-major". I don't use it because it is too vaguely defined. For instance, someone I was talking to this past week referred to Butler as a mid-major. That's a tough sell. Yes, Butler was in the Horizon League not that long ago, but the Bulldogs are in the Big East now. Gonzaga is a major program in a non-major conference. The A-10 is often a multiple-bid league, but does not have the depth of quality like the major conferences.

I hate to tell you this Bill, but it does look like college basketball is going to go down the same road as college football. With pay for play practically here, you will finally see movement on this front, and it doesn't look good for any outside the P6. Notice I said P6, not P5,, and no, I'm not referring to the AAC's dumb campaign to win P conference recognition; I am referring to the P5 conferences plus the Big East, although I am not sure how long the P5 conferences will tolerate the Big East's existence in basketball.
01-21-2020 03:41 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-20-2020 11:33 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-20-2020 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The there levels to me are Power, Major and Mid-Major.

Power: P5 + BE
Major: G5 + A10/WCC/MVC?
Mid-Major: Everyone else.

I don't think the label mid-major is disrespectful but I do think low-major is. It doesn't matter when a team can come out of any conference and win a NCAA tournament game.

While the performance doesn't merit much right now if you compare the SBC to the OVC or ASun as a G5 spread from the Carolinas to Texas its on a different level. Second tier compared to the third tier situation.


Just because the Sun Belt, etc play FBS ball, it doesn’t put their hoops in the mid level

Three tiers:

P6/7. (AAC is almost there)

Other conferences that regularly get multi-bids - A10, WCC, Maybe MWC

Single-bid conferences

Its more oriented around national TV deals and the G5 conferences have them.

G5 budgets put them into a middle tier as well.
01-21-2020 04:35 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
If you base it on resources and budgets, then besides the P5 and the Big East the following schools should be considered majors:

Memphis, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, SMU, Wichita State, Saint Louis, Tulsa, Brigham Young, Houston, Temple, San Diego State, VCU, Dayton

The above bakers dozen are consistently in the top 90, the first five names in the top 50.

There is a gray area group of schools that are a bit below the 76 power schools (I am counting UConn already as Big East, as by Basketball budget and resources they are top 20, with Memphis the only non power school above them in budget and not by much -- and yes 5 of the top 25 in resources allocated are Big East, so they belong in the power designation for Basketball). In this gray area would fall the following schools occupying a space $1m per year above those below but a $1m below the bottom of the power schools.

UNLV, Richmond, South Florida, Rhode Island, Colorado State, Dusquesne, St. Joe's, UMass, Fordham and Tulane. (I am reluctant to count Sand Francisco of the WCC, UAB of CUSA and Grand Canyon of the WAC in this group despite having on paper the same level of budget)

Below this group the top of the rest have budgets 50-60% of the very bottom of the power schools, or around $3m to the >$5.5m of a red lanterns Butler, DePaul, Washington State and Oregon State.

This is where New Mexico, Liberty, Wyoming, UTEP, ODU, ECU, UCF, JMU, GMU and so on reside. I'd probably put NMSU, St. Mary's and Davidson in this group as well, even though they budget lower.

Anyway, I think resources tell us all we need to know. The top "Mid-Major" schools are in fact majors in Basketball by any measure of resources. It should never shock anyone to see Houston, Memphis, Cincy, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Dayton, VCU or BYU in the tournament. This is not a new phenomena, these schools have been in the same budget and financial territory as the majors for decades. It's just football that separated them from the power schools.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 01:57 PM by Stugray2.)
01-21-2020 06:21 AM
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Post: #10
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
I can remember when the autonomy schools and ESPN created the P5 label several years back. We were told that these schools were in their group because of (among other things) 1) budget 2) history/tradition 3) attendance 4) TV viewership/brand strength.

I am a Cincinnati alum and fan. There aren't that many schools in the P5+Big East that have UC beat in all 4 of those categories. We are the 14h winningest program all-time, have spent the 10th most weeks in the AP Top 25 since the poll was created, have 2 national titles, 32 NCAAT appearances (13th most ever), 31 All-Americans (8 Consensus 1st Teamers), etc. We were the first program to play in three consecutive national title games, and the first to reach 5 consecutive final fours.

Also as a Cincinnati fan I take exception if you believe Xavier, as a member of the Big East, is a "bigger" program than UC. Most of the country could not tell you what city Xavier is located in. When the schools are playing at the same time XU games get moved down the radio dial for the UC broadcast.
01-21-2020 08:56 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 06:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If you base it on resources and budgets, then besides the P5 and the Big East the following schools should be considered majors:

Memphis, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, SMU, Wichita State, Saint Louis, Tulsa, Brigham Young, Houston, Temple, San Diego State, VCU, Dayton

The above bakers dozen are consistently in the top 90, the first five names in the top 50.

There is a gray area group of schools that are a bit below the 76 power schools (I am counting UConn already as Big East, as by Basketball budget and resources they are top 20, with Memphis the only non power school above them in budget and not by much -- and yes 5 of the top 25 in resources allocated are Big East, so they below in the power designation for Basketball). In this gray area would fall the following schools occupying a space $1m per year above those below but a $1m below the bottom of the power schools.

UNLV, Richmond, South Florida, Rhode Island, Colorado State, Dusquesne, St. Joe's, UMass, Fordham and Tulane. (I am reluctant to count Sand Francisco of the WCC, UAB of CUSA and Grand Canyon of the WAC in this group despite having on paper the same level of budget)

Below this group the top of the rest have budgets 50-60% of the very bottom of the power schools, or around $3m to the >$5.5m of a red lanterns Butler, DePaul, Washington State and Oregon State.

This is where New Mexico, Liberty, Wyoming, UTEP, ODU, ECU, UCF, JMU, GMU and so on reside. I'd probably put NMSU, St. Mary's and Davidson in this group as well, even though they budget lower.

Anyway, I think resources tell us all we need to know. The top "Mid-Major" schools are in fact majors in Basketball by any measure of resources. It should never shock anyone to see Houston, Memphis, Cincy, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Dayton, VCU or BYU in the tournament. This is not a new phenomena, these schools have been in the same budget and financial territory as the majors for decades. It's just football that separated them from the power schools.


Excellent job, Stugray20. This should be required reading for those in the media who cover college hoops. I agree with about 95 to 98 percent of this.

Thanks for a strong and accurate post.
01-21-2020 09:13 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 03:41 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(01-20-2020 10:15 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This debate always puzzles me.

CBS Sports' Jerry Palm fields a question from a poster who seemingly thinks Gonzaga is a "mid-major." Then Palm notes he recently chatted with somebody who characterized the Big East's Butler as a "mid-major."

Palm, to his credit, makes clear Gonzaga is a a major program. And he also notes he tries to steer clear of using the term mid-major. But then he classifies BYU and VCU as "mid-majors" (with which I strongly disagree). He also fails to make clear Dayton and San Diego State are major programs.

I have noted in the past that as a former college sports journalist (and still in the media) I continue to this day to occasionally hear people who say the Big East is not a power conference (which I feel is absurd) and that Gonzaga is a "mid-major" (equally absurd). They argue that if you are "not fully in the comprehensive and exclusive P5 club," you cannot be "partially of that club." I strongly disagree.

College basketball is very unlike college football. You can have a high-major program that is not a member of a P6 league (I put the Big East with the P5 in hoops). And Gonzaga, VCU, Dayton and at least 15 others have proved that.

Still, some folks don't see it that way. It baffles me.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...rojection/

From the Palm piece:

Q: Excluding Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton, who are your top 5 mid-majors when it comes to chances for an at-large berth? — from @mikezor052588

A: Ah, my least favorite word in college basketball -- "Mid-major". I don't use it because it is too vaguely defined. For instance, someone I was talking to this past week referred to Butler as a mid-major. That's a tough sell. Yes, Butler was in the Horizon League not that long ago, but the Bulldogs are in the Big East now. Gonzaga is a major program in a non-major conference. The A-10 is often a multiple-bid league, but does not have the depth of quality like the major conferences.

I hate to tell you this Bill, but it does look like college basketball is going to go down the same road as college football. With pay for play practically here, you will finally see movement on this front, and it doesn't look good for any outside the P6. Notice I said P6, not P5,, and no, I'm not referring to the AAC's dumb campaign to win P conference recognition; I am referring to the P5 conferences plus the Big East, although I am not sure how long the P5 conferences will tolerate the Big East's existence in basketball.

Sadly, Dawg, you might be proved correct. Would be a shame, too.
01-21-2020 09:14 AM
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Post: #13
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 09:13 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 06:21 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  If you base it on resources and budgets, then besides the P5 and the Big East the following schools should be considered majors:

Memphis, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, SMU, Wichita State, Saint Louis, Tulsa, Brigham Young, Houston, Temple, San Diego State, VCU, Dayton

The above bakers dozen are consistently in the top 90, the first five names in the top 50.

There is a gray area group of schools that are a bit below the 76 power schools (I am counting UConn already as Big East, as by Basketball budget and resources they are top 20, with Memphis the only non power school above them in budget and not by much -- and yes 5 of the top 25 in resources allocated are Big East, so they below in the power designation for Basketball). In this gray area would fall the following schools occupying a space $1m per year above those below but a $1m below the bottom of the power schools.

UNLV, Richmond, South Florida, Rhode Island, Colorado State, Dusquesne, St. Joe's, UMass, Fordham and Tulane. (I am reluctant to count Sand Francisco of the WCC, UAB of CUSA and Grand Canyon of the WAC in this group despite having on paper the same level of budget)

Below this group the top of the rest have budgets 50-60% of the very bottom of the power schools, or around $3m to the >$5.5m of a red lanterns Butler, DePaul, Washington State and Oregon State.

This is where New Mexico, Liberty, Wyoming, UTEP, ODU, ECU, UCF, JMU, GMU and so on reside. I'd probably put NMSU, St. Mary's and Davidson in this group as well, even though they budget lower.

Anyway, I think resources tell us all we need to know. The top "Mid-Major" schools are in fact majors in Basketball by any measure of resources. It should never shock anyone to see Houston, Memphis, Cincy, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Dayton, VCU or BYU in the tournament. This is not a new phenomena, these schools have been in the same budget and financial territory as the majors for decades. It's just football that separated them from the power schools.


Excellent job, Stugray20. This should be required reading for those in the media who cover college hoops. I agree with about 95 to 98 percent of this.

Thanks for a strong and accurate post.

They know it-- it is a deliberate effort to undermine programs, particularly schools like Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston that have their roots in the Metro Conference.
01-21-2020 09:15 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 08:56 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I can remember when the autonomy schools and ESPN created the P5 label several years back. We were told that these schools were in their group because of (among other things) 1) budget 2) history/tradition 3) attendance 4) TV viewership/brand strength.

I am a Cincinnati alum and fan. There aren't that many schools in the P5+Big East that have UC beat in all 4 of those categories. We are the 14h winningest program all-time, have spent the 10th most weeks in the AP Top 25 since the poll was created, have 2 national titles, 32 NCAAT appearances (13th most ever), 31 All-Americans (8 Consensus 1st Teamers), etc. We were the first program to play in three consecutive national title games, and the first to reach 5 consecutive final fours.

Also as a Cincinnati fan I take exception if you believe Xavier, as a member of the Big East, is a "bigger" program than UC. Most of the country could not tell you what city Xavier is located in. When the schools are playing at the same time XU games get moved down the radio dial for the UC broadcast.


As a Cincy supporter, I'm with you C-Ave. Some folks think a program is "inferior" if it's not a member of the P5 or Big East. But more and more fans and media are coming around and realizing the truths of this topic.

Good post.
01-21-2020 09:17 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-20-2020 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The there levels to me are Power, Major and Mid-Major.

Power: P5 + BE
Major: G5 + A10/WCC/MVC?
Mid-Major: Everyone else.

I don't think the label mid-major is disrespectful but I do think low-major is. It doesn't matter when a team can come out of any conference and win a NCAA tournament game.

While the performance doesn't merit much right now if you compare the SBC to the OVC or ASun as a G5 spread from the Carolinas to Texas its on a different level. Second tier compared to the third tier situation.

I actually think the definition of major is a bit more exclusive. I definitely wouldn’t consider all of the G5 to be major conferences. The AAC is at the major/power line and the MWC is solidly a major conference, but the rest of the G5 consists of largely 1-bid leagues that are midmajors. The A-10 and WCC would be considered majors. The MVC used to be a major, but it has taken a big step back - even with Loyola’s Final Four run a couple of years ago, it not a consistent threat to get multiple NCAA Tournament bids.

Power conferences are leagues where their status is simply unquestioned and are effectively guaranteed to get multiple NCAA Tournament bids every year (regardless of whether the league is up or down in a given year). That’s really in the P5 plus the Big East in today’s world.

Major conferences are leagues that should be getting multiple NCAA Tournament bids per year, but their status isn’t ironclad and it’s going to be more highly variable (e.g. they could get 4 or 5 bids one year but then be only a 1-bid league in a particularly bad year). These are leagues that have a mix of clearly power programs (like Gonzaga and the top of the AAC), but also are weighed down by some midmajor-level institutions, too, so they don’t have quite the top-to-bottom depth of the power conferences. (Even the worst schools in the power conferences are generally still bringing something of value, whether it’s academics, a major market, or historical performance.)

Midmajors are 1-bid leagues by default. Every once in a while, there might be a major/power-level program that emerges in a midmajor league, but the only way that midmajor league gets 2 bids is an “accident” where the major-power-level program loses in the conference tournament.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2020 09:25 AM by Frank the Tank.)
01-21-2020 09:21 AM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-20-2020 10:15 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This debate always puzzles me.

CBS Sports' Jerry Palm fields a question from a poster who seemingly thinks Gonzaga is a "mid-major." Then Palm notes he recently chatted with somebody who characterized the Big East's Butler as a "mid-major."

Palm, to his credit, makes clear Gonzaga is a a major program. And he also notes he tries to steer clear of using the term mid-major. But then he classifies BYU and VCU as "mid-majors" (with which I strongly disagree). He also fails to make clear Dayton and San Diego State are major programs.

I have noted in the past that as a former college sports journalist (and still in the media) I continue to this day to occasionally hear people who say the Big East is not a power conference (which I feel is absurd) and that Gonzaga is a "mid-major" (equally absurd). They argue that if you are "not fully in the comprehensive and exclusive P5 club," you cannot be "partially of that club." I strongly disagree.

College basketball is very unlike college football. You can have a high-major program that is not a member of a P6 league (I put the Big East with the P5 in hoops). And Gonzaga, VCU, Dayton and at least 15 others have proved that.

Still, some folks don't see it that way. It baffles me.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...rojection/

From the Palm piece:

Q: Excluding Gonzaga, San Diego State and Dayton, who are your top 5 mid-majors when it comes to chances for an at-large berth? — from @mikezor052588

A: Ah, my least favorite word in college basketball -- "Mid-major". I don't use it because it is too vaguely defined. For instance, someone I was talking to this past week referred to Butler as a mid-major. That's a tough sell. Yes, Butler was in the Horizon League not that long ago, but the Bulldogs are in the Big East now. Gonzaga is a major program in a non-major conference. The A-10 is often a multiple-bid league, but does not have the depth of quality like the major conferences.

It's tough to analyze. Gonzaga has a solid team each year but they do play 20+ meaningless games where they have 0% chance of losing. They certainly aren't the old UNLV of late 80s and early 90s that could play in any conference.
Dayton plays in a competitive league that used to be multiple bid but I think it's struggled as a whole with recent departures.
BYU - who knows? They are seemingly team #68 every season.
01-21-2020 09:25 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 09:25 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Gonzaga has a solid team each year but they do play 20+ meaningless games where they have 0% chance of losing. They certainly aren't the old UNLV of late 80s and early 90s that could play in any conference.

03-lmfao

Gonzaga vs P5/BE:
20: 4-1
19: 8-3
18: 5-3
17: 9-1
16: 6-4
15: 6-2
14: 4-2
13: 7-1
01-21-2020 09:36 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
There's several conferences that I think are below "mid-major."

The "minor conferences" are the MEAC, Southwestern, Big South, A-Sun, America East, Big West, Northeast, WAC.... I don't think any team in those conferences has ever gotten an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament (or probably even the NIT). They're a definite step below the Horizon, Missouri Valley, Sun Belt, WCC, Colonial, etc.
01-21-2020 09:38 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 09:38 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  There's several conferences that I think are below "mid-major."

The "minor conferences" are the MEAC, Southwestern, Big South, A-Sun, America East, Big West, Northeast, WAC.... I don't think any team in those conferences has ever gotten an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament (or probably even the NIT). They're a definite step below the Horizon, Missouri Valley, Sun Belt, WCC, Colonial, etc.

Yeah, that's a good point (although the Big West probably ought to be in the midmajor category with the California schools plus Hawaii). A midmajor at least has a shot once every blue moon to get a 2nd NCAA Tournament bid, but those "minor" or "low major" conferences have no shot to get any type of 2nd bid at all and are often relegated to the First Four play-in games for the bottom seeds and/or the 14/15/16-seed lines.
01-21-2020 09:45 AM
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_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
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Post: #20
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 09:38 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  There's several conferences that I think are below "mid-major."

The "minor conferences" are the MEAC, Southwestern, Big South, A-Sun, America East, Big West, Northeast, WAC.... I don't think any team in those conferences has ever gotten an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament (or probably even the NIT). They're a definite step below the Horizon, Missouri Valley, Sun Belt, WCC, Colonial, etc.

The Big West has a solid history. The WAC does too, granted it's essentially a new conference and not composed mostly of the original MWC nucleus.

The WCC is bad outside Gonzaga and BYU, and that includes St. Mary's outside the Randy Bennett era. San Francisco was relevant for a few decades but otherwise the league is very low major. No team besides the other three mentioned has come close to an at-large bid in the past 15 years from the conference.
01-21-2020 10:32 AM
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