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Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-23-2020 10:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 09:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  To me the mid majors are anyone outside of the P5 +Big East.

Doesn't mean that Wichita St, Gonzaga, Cincinnati, etc aren't elite level programs, but that's just reality.


It is almost almost impossible to describe Gonzaga, for example, as a "mid-major" and, for example, Northwestern (not to pick on NU) as a "power conference program." It simply makes no sense. Northwestern has been to one NCAA tourney (and that is just one example of the difference between the two programs). Northwestern has the Big Ten as home — and that is basically the only advantage it has on Gonzaga.

If a program is at a high-major level (as Wichita, Gonzaga and Cincy are, and as you correctly suggest), that program is not a "mid-major program," regardless of its league home. That's just how I see it. Others see it differently.

Sorry, that's just the way it is in my opinion. It doesn't mean the school can't be elite. Everyone knows that a win over Gonzaga is way more impressive than a win over Northwestern (or South Carolina). Just like in football where a win over Boise St says a whole lot more than a win over Rutgers. But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.
01-28-2020 08:59 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 10:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 09:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  To me the mid majors are anyone outside of the P5 +Big East.

Doesn't mean that Wichita St, Gonzaga, Cincinnati, etc aren't elite level programs, but that's just reality.


It is almost almost impossible to describe Gonzaga, for example, as a "mid-major" and, for example, Northwestern (not to pick on NU) as a "power conference program." It simply makes no sense. Northwestern has been to one NCAA tourney (and that is just one example of the difference between the two programs). Northwestern has the Big Ten as home — and that is basically the only advantage it has on Gonzaga.

If a program is at a high-major level (as Wichita, Gonzaga and Cincy are, and as you correctly suggest), that program is not a "mid-major program," regardless of its league home. That's just how I see it. Others see it differently.

Sorry, that's just the way it is in my opinion. It doesn't mean the school can't be elite. Everyone knows that a win over Gonzaga is way more impressive than a win over Northwestern (or South Carolina). Just like in football where a win over Boise St says a whole lot more than a win over Rutgers. But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.


Lots of folks agree with you. I don't but that's cool. I know some knowledgeable college hoops fans who don't consider the Big East a true power league in every respect. They argue that if a team or conference is not "fully in the P5 club," it cannot be "partially of it." I think that's absurd and strongly disagree. The Big East is power all the way.

I rate by programs and not by leagues. For example, and we'll use Cincy (since I follow the program) ... and I have heard this argument before: If the Bearcats left the "mid-major" American to become an independent in hoops, there are folks who feel that the long-mid-major Cincy would then rate as a "major" program because it's no longer in the AAC. Again, I've heard this argument made. It's baffling.

It's an interesting topic. I feel strongly about it because 1. I root for teams in the P5/6 and for teams that are not; and 2. I'm a member of the media and try to be as unbiased and consistent as possible. I'm sure I fail at times.
01-28-2020 09:58 AM
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Post: #63
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
Memphis, Cincy, Temple and I believe Houston are all time ESPN ESPN top25 programs. That along with a Wichita state and an ever improving bottom half of the conference, such as a rebuilding UCF that took Duke to the wire in the NCAA's is the DNA of a power conference. Now I wouldn't expect some of you NBE fanboys to acknowledge that and that's ok but the mere fact that the American has garnered multiple bids every year even though Memphis and UCONN have been down and even finishing 6th last season is a testament to that fact. The fact that the AAC lives in so many NBE fans heads to me is very telling because I never see the NBE as a topic of conversation to AAC fans. We tend to focus more on the p5s. Hmmm,,,,,go figure. 07-coffee307-coffee307-coffee3
01-28-2020 12:31 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #64
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 12:31 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Memphis, Cincy, Temple and I believe Houston are all time ESPN ESPN top25 programs. That along with a Wichita state and an ever improving bottom half of the conference, such as a rebuilding UCF that took Duke to the wire in the NCAA's is the DNA of a power conference. Now I wouldn't expect some of you NBE fanboys to acknowledge that and that's ok but the mere fact that the American has garnered multiple bids every year even though Memphis and UCONN have been down and even finishing 6th last season is a testament to that fact. The fact that the AAC lives in so many NBE fans heads to me is very telling because I never see the NBE as a topic of conversation to AAC fans. We tend to focus more on the p5s. Hmmm,,,,,go figure. 07-coffee307-coffee307-coffee3

After the 2017 season, the AP release their top 100 programs based on cumulative poll points - 1 point for every week ranked, 2 points for every week ranked #1

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men...based-poll


#10 - Cincinnati
#16 - UConn
#26 - Memphis
#51 - Temple
#56 - Houston
#58 - Wichita State
#83 - Tulsa
#86 - SMU

8 of current 12 (dropping to 7 of 11 next year)
Missing: ECU, USF, UCF and Tulane

It wouldn't be hard to add 2017/18, 2018/19 and 2019/2020 to date

Note - #100 has 49 points

For comparison to the Big East:
#15 - Georgetown
#19 - Villanova
#21 - Marquette
#27 - St. Johns
#49 - DePaul
#53 - Xavier
#57 - Providence
#65 - Butler
#72 - Seton Hall
#82 - Creighton

10 of 10, 11 of 11 next year
01-28-2020 12:47 PM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #65
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 12:31 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Memphis, Cincy, Temple and I believe Houston are all time ESPN ESPN top25 programs. That along with a Wichita state and an ever improving bottom half of the conference, such as a rebuilding UCF that took Duke to the wire in the NCAA's is the DNA of a power conference. Now I wouldn't expect some of you NBE fanboys to acknowledge that and that's ok but the mere fact that the American has garnered multiple bids every year even though Memphis and UCONN have been down and even finishing 6th last season is a testament to that fact. The fact that the AAC lives in so many NBE fans heads to me is very telling because I never see the NBE as a topic of conversation to AAC fans. We tend to focus more on the p5s. Hmmm,,,,,go figure. 07-coffee307-coffee307-coffee3

Its not just Big East fans. There are fans of P5 conference schools saying the same thing in this thread and there are talking heads on ESPN who repeat this mantra. Anybody who considers UC and Memphis hoops a mid-major program either have an agenda or don't know basketball IMHO.
01-28-2020 12:50 PM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
One thing is sure. VCU won't be mid major once it joins the American.
01-28-2020 01:32 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 12:50 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 12:31 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Memphis, Cincy, Temple and I believe Houston are all time ESPN ESPN top25 programs. That along with a Wichita state and an ever improving bottom half of the conference, such as a rebuilding UCF that took Duke to the wire in the NCAA's is the DNA of a power conference. Now I wouldn't expect some of you NBE fanboys to acknowledge that and that's ok but the mere fact that the American has garnered multiple bids every year even though Memphis and UCONN have been down and even finishing 6th last season is a testament to that fact. The fact that the AAC lives in so many NBE fans heads to me is very telling because I never see the NBE as a topic of conversation to AAC fans. We tend to focus more on the p5s. Hmmm,,,,,go figure. 07-coffee307-coffee307-coffee3

Its not just Big East fans. There are fans of P5 conference schools saying the same thing in this thread and there are talking heads on ESPN who repeat this mantra. Anybody who considers UC and Memphis hoops a mid-major program either have an agenda or don't know basketball IMHO.


Cincy and Memphis are major basketball programs. I'm biased since I pull for both — but they are major. Period.
01-28-2020 01:37 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

Things that are true by definition are by definition only true if you elect to define them that way.

Lot's of basketball commentators in the 80's used major, mid-major and low-major to refer to programs, some of whom had their status because of the conference they played in, and some of whom had their status because of their own individual legacy.

If they don't today, well there's no helping these kids today getting things wrong, they weren't even alive back when they were doing things the right way, so they don't know any better. 07-coffee3
01-28-2020 03:06 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 03:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

If they don't today, well there's no helping these kids today getting things wrong, they weren't even alive back when they were doing things the right way, so they don't know any better. 07-coffee3

Doesn't that responsibility lie on your shoulders (a teacher)? If you can't effectively influence this generation, you're failing as an educator. 05-stirthepot
01-28-2020 03:32 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

Football yes, basketball no. Gonzaga isn't defined by being in the same conference with Pacific and Portland. East Carolina and Tulane don't automatically get lifted up to the same level as Cincinnati and Memphis. VCU and Dayton share a conference but not a status with Fordham and La Salle. Whereas with bowl contracts, there's a much more definitive cutoff between power and non-power, and until Boise gets bowl deals separate from the MWC, they're at the kids' table too.
01-28-2020 03:33 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 03:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

Football yes, basketball no. Gonzaga isn't defined by being in the same conference with Pacific and Portland. East Carolina and Tulane don't automatically get lifted up to the same level as Cincinnati and Memphis. VCU and Dayton share a conference but not a status with Fordham and La Salle. Whereas with bowl contracts, there's a much more definitive cutoff between power and non-power, and until Boise gets bowl deals separate from the MWC, they're at the kids' table too.


Correctly and accurately put. Agree.

HUGE difference between football and basketball.

The "power" definition in football is overwhelmingly about resources/money. Thus, there are only five "power" conferences. I get that and agree with it.

In hoops, it's as much about achievement, history, influence, on-court success, etc. Thus the Big East is a power hoops league and at least 12 (and maybe as many as 18 to 20) individual other programs (many have been listed within this thread) are "power" or "high-major" or "major" (whatever you want to call them) programs.

My Memphis Tigers are a mid-major in football because they don't have the massive budget and huge fan base (compared to most P5 programs) and they don't have the security of being in a power league. But in hoops, Memphis can pay a coach a salary of a few million dollars, land four star recruits, occasionally draw 15,000 to a home game, etc. Lots of P6 programs can't to those things very easily.

How we define football programs and basketball programs are two very different things.
01-28-2020 05:48 PM
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Garrettabc Online
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Post: #72
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
How bout this for a definition:

Major - when you look at your team’s schedule and you audibly say “wooo” when you see the opponent.

Midmajor - when you look at your team’s schedule and you see the opponent and think to yourself “that could help our NET/RPI”.

Lowmajor - when you look at your team’s schedule and you see the opponent and think “maybe someone from work could use these tickets.”
01-28-2020 06:06 PM
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-23-2020 08:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 06:08 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 02:21 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  No way does Horizon or OVC belong with those other leagues. Horizon hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since Butler. OVC is usually 2/3 250+ RPI teams with Murray St and Belmont up top. It is a bottom-5 league that has 2 top mid-major programs lifting it up.

Agreed - 70% of Horizon teams are in the bottom third of net. 80% in bottom half.
For the OVC, 2/3 are in bottom third, 75% in bottom half

These conferences have 66.7% or more in the bottom half of Net:
Big West
Summit
Ohio Valley
America East
WAC
Horizon
Big South
Atlantic Sun
Patriot
Southland
100% in bottom half
MAAC
MEAC
Northeast
SWAC

Good post.

I've never figured out why the America East doesn't do better. Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, 3 of the 4 SUNY schools + UMBC, Hartford and UMass Lowell.

This board seems quite fond of the WCC, but typically its Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's and a bunch of garbage.

It also underrates the MVC which is comparable or better than the A10 but with a lot better fan support and facilities. They used to get regular 2nd bids. But the committee has started adding bottom half teams from the power conferences lately.

Hockey schools. That’s why they do so poorly. Maine averages 3,700 a game for hockey. Not selling out, but still very good numbers. Vermont averages over 3,000 still, even with their basketball being one of the most prominent non-major schools in the northeast in the last 20 years.

New Hampshire averages 4,600+ while their basketball team struggles to get 4 figures and plays in a different gym.

Northeastern was in that league before they moved to the CAA. Basketball is a distant second there. About 3 times a year, they play a basketball-hockey DH. Basketball playing at noon, hockey at night. Even with their team making NCAAs twice in the last 5 seasons, they struggle to break 1,000 a game.

VCU was in the CAA, but don’t forget they spent the early 90s in the Metro with Louisville, Va. Tech, Charlotte and others. There was one year in the 80s VCU was a #2 seed in the NCAA. So even with their relatively short history (since 1968), they have a very good basketball legacy.
01-28-2020 06:23 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-23-2020 08:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  It also underrates the MVC which is comparable or better than the A10 but with a lot better fan support and facilities. They used to get regular 2nd bids. But the committee has started adding bottom half teams from the power conferences lately.

I think the MVC's problem is that after Creighton and Wichita State left, it became a balanced league, which is great for intraconference intrigue but not so great for building at-large resumes. Northern Iowa probably can't lose more than two games in-conference to maintain its at-large hopes, and the nature of the MVC means it probably won't happen. Otherwise, you're looking at maybe one NIT team from them.
01-28-2020 07:00 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-21-2020 08:37 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 07:42 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 07:13 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-21-2020 06:01 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Even though some of you like billdazzle and a few others have some emotional need to cut out the AAC as if it helps the NBE, I have to say that any conference with Memphis, Cincy, Houston, Temple and Wichita state is not and I'll repeat IS NOT A MID-MAJOR. Mid-majors don't have #1 recruiting classes, 5* recruits multi NCAA tournament bids even in bad years. However I'll admit that the AAC got off to a rough start after UCONN'S championship run. A lot of that was the result of some bad coaching hires that have been mostly corrected. I've said for years that the AAC had a Memphis/UCONN problem because we both didn't do well for 4-5 years, yet even still the AAC has produced multi NCAA tournament teams every year. Heck the AAC even finished above the pac12 last season and that with the conference still not completely up and running. 07-coffee307-coffee3


Agree fully. I have simply noted I've been a bit disappointed in the AAC men's basketball results (not sufficient NCAA tourney success, specifically). I consider the American a "major to high-major" league that has elements of a power league. I've been very clear on this in multiple posts. Admittedly, I follow the Big East as I'm a long-time DePaul fan, but I have cheered for Memphis and Cincy for years. I think we're basically on the same page.

I'm sorry that you think I'm a little vague, so I'll put it this way. AS FAR AS BASKETBALL GOES THE AAC IS A POWER CONFERENCE. NOT ANY SNEAKY WAY OF PUTTING IT UNDER ANY OTHER POWER CONFERENCE. IN ITS 6 YEAR HISTORY IT HAS MORE NCAA CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN THE PAC12 AND FINISHED RANKED HIGHER THAN THEM LAST YEAR. Has the AAC had some down seasons? Sure yet it still recieved multiple NCAA tournament bids eventhough Memphis and UCONN were going through coaching debacles. Please excuse the AAC if for a few years football was the focal point of our efforts, now the basketball side is being quickly upgraded. The AAC should be able to be a little down for a little while just like the other p7 conferences. As long as the AAC has Memphis, Cincy, Houston, Temple and Wichita state the AAC'S power status is safe..

There are some folks who agree with you and others who do not. I'm 50-50 with it, as I view the American as offering various characteristics of a power league but also with some elements that hurt that narrative: so-so attendance collectively, underachievement in the NCAA tourney, no one program that would be considered Top 10 to 15 of all time (though Cincy is close) and four programs that have enjoyed modest, at best, historic success.

I have frequently posted on this board that I want the AAC to add VCU. That is a major program that would greatly soften the blow of losing UConn. And if Tulane, USF and UCF continue to make some modest strides, that will help the league, too. ECU ... it is what it is.

To the five AAC schools you list, I would add SMU and Tulsa. Those two are included on just about every "all-time Top 100 programs" list I've seen.

Admittedly, ECU has been an anchor, although we've never finished dead last in the AAC and we are known to upset the better programs in the league in Greenville from time to time. We are investing in basketball and the nucleus is there to really grow the program (basically all freshman and sophomores). Attendance is up which is important. I really think Joe Dooley will get us to respectability starting next year. We are actually #7 out of 12 in the conference standings right now, including having a legit POY candidate in sophomore Jayden Gardner. Obviously this is subject to change but ECU is even 2 games up on Big East bound UCONN right now. We didn't have either of our top 2 guards for OOC and it was a brand new team so cohesion and camaraderie had to take time to develop.

I really think ECU can make a major dent in perception for the entire conference. If we improve the entire conference looks much better and all indications are that we are on the way there. Until that fully comes into fruition however, people will continue to make the only as strong as your weakest link argument against the AAC.
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2020 08:24 PM by B easy.)
01-28-2020 08:14 PM
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Post: #76
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
I recall reading this article after the top 16 reveal in 2018 (http://theopenman.com/2018/02/11/ncaa-se...ketball/):

Quote:2. The selection committee really hates mid-major conferences.

The top 16 revealed Sunday features four teams from the ACC, three out of the Big Ten and Big 12, two from the SEC and Big East, and one a piece from the Pac-12 and American. Nary is there a mid-major to be found.

One could argue that the American qualifies as mid-major, since it’s a Group of Five member in football, but one would be wrong. Cincinnati individually is most certainly not a mid-major program — but then again, I would have assumed Gonzaga is not, either.

The selection committee evidently feels otherwise.

This is a very obvious circular argument. You can tell the committee thinks Gonzaga is a mid-major, because they're outside the top 16, and you can tell the committee hates mid-majors because Gonzaga is outside the top 16.

The author also failed to discuss any of the factors that actually affect selection and seeding. Entirely absent from this article are the words "résumé", "wins", and "quadrant". All the author talks about are the AP, KenPom, and RPI ranks of Gonzaga and the "stigma" of playing in the WCC that holds them back.
01-28-2020 08:22 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 05:48 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 03:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

Football yes, basketball no. Gonzaga isn't defined by being in the same conference with Pacific and Portland. East Carolina and Tulane don't automatically get lifted up to the same level as Cincinnati and Memphis. VCU and Dayton share a conference but not a status with Fordham and La Salle. Whereas with bowl contracts, there's a much more definitive cutoff between power and non-power, and until Boise gets bowl deals separate from the MWC, they're at the kids' table too.


Correctly and accurately put. Agree.

HUGE difference between football and basketball.

The "power" definition in football is overwhelmingly about resources/money. Thus, there are only five "power" conferences. I get that and agree with it.

In hoops, it's as much about achievement, history, influence, on-court success, etc. Thus the Big East is a power hoops league and at least 12 (and maybe as many as 18 to 20) individual other programs (many have been listed within this thread) are "power" or "high-major" or "major" (whatever you want to call them) programs.

My Memphis Tigers are a mid-major in football because they don't have the massive budget and huge fan base (compared to most P5 programs) and they don't have the security of being in a power league. But in hoops, Memphis can pay a coach a salary of a few million dollars, land four star recruits, occasionally draw 15,000 to a home game, etc. Lots of P6 programs can't to those things very easily.

How we define football programs and basketball programs are two very different things.

Agree with you on some of this. Memphis has proven that they can pay whatever salary possible for the coach that they want. Calipari didn't leave Memphis because of money, he left because at the time Memphis was stuck left behind in a depleted CUSA 2.0. If the bigeast had taken Memphis rather than DePaul or USF he probably would still have been at Memphis. 2) Memphis doesn't "occasionally " draw 15,000. Pastner destroyed the fan base enthusiasm and Tubby Smith tried to stomp it completely out. Before them Memphis averaged 17 to 18,000 and I think this year we are averaging around 16,000. The average recruit at Memphis is a 4* and we get more than our fair share of 5* recruits. Are you sure that you're a Memphis fan ? You should know that. 07-coffee3
01-28-2020 08:46 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 08:46 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 05:48 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 03:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

Football yes, basketball no. Gonzaga isn't defined by being in the same conference with Pacific and Portland. East Carolina and Tulane don't automatically get lifted up to the same level as Cincinnati and Memphis. VCU and Dayton share a conference but not a status with Fordham and La Salle. Whereas with bowl contracts, there's a much more definitive cutoff between power and non-power, and until Boise gets bowl deals separate from the MWC, they're at the kids' table too.


Correctly and accurately put. Agree.

HUGE difference between football and basketball.

The "power" definition in football is overwhelmingly about resources/money. Thus, there are only five "power" conferences. I get that and agree with it.

In hoops, it's as much about achievement, history, influence, on-court success, etc. Thus the Big East is a power hoops league and at least 12 (and maybe as many as 18 to 20) individual other programs (many have been listed within this thread) are "power" or "high-major" or "major" (whatever you want to call them) programs.

My Memphis Tigers are a mid-major in football because they don't have the massive budget and huge fan base (compared to most P5 programs) and they don't have the security of being in a power league. But in hoops, Memphis can pay a coach a salary of a few million dollars, land four star recruits, occasionally draw 15,000 to a home game, etc. Lots of P6 programs can't to those things very easily.

How we define football programs and basketball programs are two very different things.

Agree with you on some of this. Memphis has proven that they can pay whatever salary possible for the coach that they want. Calipari didn't leave Memphis because of money, he left because at the time Memphis was stuck left behind in a depleted CUSA 2.0. If the bigeast had taken Memphis rather than DePaul or USF he probably would still have been at Memphis. 2) Memphis doesn't "occasionally " draw 15,000. Pastner destroyed the fan base enthusiasm and Tubby Smith tried to stomp it completely out. Before them Memphis averaged 17 to 18,000 and I think this year we are averaging around 16,000. The average recruit at Memphis is a 4* and we get more than our fair share of 5* recruits. Are you sure that you're a Memphis fan ? You should know that. 07-coffee3


Good points. I could have been more specific with my word choice and more accurate overall. But I'm not sure the average Tiger recruit over, say, the past 20 years has been four-star. My memory is bad but I would say more like 3.5 stars. Regardless, 3.5 is a strong average. And if it's more like 3.75 to 4 (and maybe it has been) ... that is outstanding.

There are also some folks who argue that if you play DI football and are in the American, you are a "major" program (and not "mid-major" as I noted). I can see that. Those in the P5 are all "power" programs (even if they have less success and fewer fans than some programs in the G5). I would like to think Memphis has a major football program in comparison to, say, LSU, which is the highest level of power program.
01-28-2020 09:20 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
I'm a Gonzaga fan but I still consider the school a kid major. For it's not just on the court success but how a team does under new management when a coach leaves. All but 1 season has been under Mark Few. The big judgement is how the school handles his retirement or how he leaves. Few is going to leave Gonzaga in better shape than he got it. If success in Gonzaga happens then it could be a major school.
01-28-2020 11:34 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Are BYU and VCU "mid-majors" in college hoops
(01-28-2020 03:32 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 03:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

If they don't today, well there's no helping these kids today getting things wrong, they weren't even alive back when they were doing things the right way, so they don't know any better. 07-coffee3

Doesn't that responsibility lie on your shoulders (a teacher)? If you can't effectively influence this generation, you're failing as an educator. 05-stirthepot

I teach in an agribusiness degree program. If poor analytical skills by my students lead to a company they are working for messing up, maybe that's on me.

I don't teach in a communications or journalism degree ... so I'm not putting my hand up for the poor training of any of these sports journalists. 07-coffee3

(The coffee is not meta commentary, I'm actually drinking my coffee.)

It really is necessary to go beyond just the conference in Basketball, since there is such a long history of programs that are more important than the conference that they play in.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2020 02:25 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-29-2020 02:13 AM
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