Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 66,279
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 1785
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #21
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(02-01-2020 07:44 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 11:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 10:28 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 10:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that the left does not want a rational immigration policy. Leftists see a steady stream of illegal immigrants as steady supply of future leftist voters.
01-wingedeagle
Before you go doing stuff like that, why don't you first explain what policies they have pursued that deviate from that objective.
Catch and release?
Sanctuary cities?
Abolishing ICE?
Adding them to the welfare rolls?
Giving non-citizens the vote?
I disagree with this, but before I do any research on it - you need to break down the time frame you're talking about when Democrats had control of the Presidency and House and Senate, and were in a position to make any meaningful legislative changes.

I wish you'd bother to read what I write instead of giving canned responses to things that I didn't write. I said "pursued," meaning that the pushed for these policies, enacted them where they could, and campaigned for them where they couldn't. And many of them have nothing to do with wo controls any of the federal branches. They are also time frame independent. I can offer support for a position no matter who controls what.

If you're position is the the left hasn't pushed for these things, then so state.

Quote:As long as you continue to make this claim (and you post this or something similar to this quite often - it gets monotonous), you need to realize that Trump's immigration policies are also political in nature. If Democrats are in favor of opening the borders to get more votes, Trump closing them is also geared to both lower the potential new Democratic votes (your theory, not mine), and also rally his base at the same time.

I wish you'd bother to read what I write instead of giving canned responses to things that I didn't write. I never said that Trump's weren't, or that I agreed with his. In fact, I've been very clear about my disagreement. What I have said is that I'd like to see both sides stop their political grandstanding and enact meaningful immigration reform.

Quote:The White House announced six new countries on its travel ban yesterday (wasn't a total ban, but it was pretty strict at the same time). The one truly significant one on the list was Nigeria. Only allowing temporary visas for people from Nigeria to the U.S. could have a big impact in November. As you probably see first-hand, there are a ton of Nigerians in the United States, and I can't imagine they are going to be happy with this news.

I doubt that the Nigerian vote is going to decide the election, but I do wish we were at a point where policy decisions could be made for the good of the country instead of for votes in the next election.
02-01-2020 09:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
uconnbaseball Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,444
Joined: Aug 2005
Reputation: 81
I Root For: Divorce, Rivals
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #22
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
I am fine with illegal immigrants so long they pay taxes without benefitting from welfare or Social Security. They can be a useful tool in helping pay off the 23 trillion dollar national debt.

Any illegal immigrant that refuses to help pay for our debt can go pound sand.
02-02-2020 03:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,372
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #23
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(02-02-2020 03:48 AM)uconnbaseball Wrote:  I am fine with illegal immigrants so long they pay taxes without benefitting from welfare or Social Security. They can be a useful tool in helping pay off the 23 trillion dollar national debt.

Any illegal immigrant that refuses to help pay for our debt can go pound sand.

My personal experiences with illegals over 50 years indicate that the vast majority pay as little in the way of taxes as they can. They came here to make money, after all. So they use false SSNs, take maximum exemptions, or just plain work for cash.

The illegal I sold a house to had been here at least sixteen years, but had no transactions that would show up on a credit report. No bank account, no credit cards, nothing.

The only way to make sure taxes are paid is to revamp the system, something Democrats are loathe to do.
02-02-2020 10:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Online
Hooter
*

Posts: 33,812
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 879
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #24
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(01-31-2020 04:13 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 02:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  As for welfare... Jul 10, 2019 - California has become the first state in the country to offer government-subsidized health benefits to young adults living in the U.S. illegally. ... Gavin Newsom on Tuesday extends coverage to low-income, undocumented adults ages 25 and younger for the state's Medicaid program.

You probably know this better than me, but emergency rooms cannot turn away patients, including illegal immigrants. Physicians would likely violate their hippocratic oath if they did so for a patient that needed care. So I think the democratic argument is that it is cheaper for illegal immigrants to receive normal healthcare than have them showing up at the ER over and over. And offering preventative care can also help avoid the spread of disease to both US citizens and within immigrant communities. If that is the case, it seems crazy that a conservative would argue that we should spend more money to treat illigal immigrants at the ER that would result in more public health risk to everyone.

I don't really think of public education as "welfare" so I don't consider that to be something within the ambit of 69/70/75's question about adding them to the "welfare rolls".

Of course not. A conservative would argue that they should not be here in the first place to need care.

While yes, preventative care is cheaper, Tell me where the tens of thousands of additional primary care physicians are going to come from to provide this preventative care? Especially when under the ACA, poor life choices including declining preventative care are not discouraged? The problem of course isn't illegal aliens but merely a shortage of PCPs, but we're just taking a bad problem and making it worse. The ACA is welfare for the unhealthy at the cost to the healthy.

It's not just public education, it's also healthcare as you note and all sorts of income based social programs for dependents... most if not all programs I support, but I struggle to support it for kids of parents who are not here legally. Despite your details, it also seems self-evident that people support politicians who support policies that favor them.... It is a huge incentive for parents to break the law to advance their children's future.... and the left generally supports policies that make the lives of illegal immigrants and their children more comfortable here... hence Owl's belief

You're looking for ways to manage the issues of illegal immigration, and a conservative would be looking for ways to eliminate the issues of illegal immigration.

A good example is what is happening in Mexico. Rather than trying to support their very wide northern border, they are looking at ways to enforce their southern one....

They'd rather stop them before they enter than find ways to support them once they have entered. They USED to support these people because they knew they weren't going to be settling in their country but were merely passing through. I personally know of situations where illegals were transported by Mexico from their southern border to their northern and dropped off.

I fall somewhere in-between. I support a path to citizenship and guest workers... with employers paying for basic care... but I also support border enforcement and ending (severely limiting) illegal immigration, including severe penalties for people who don't take advantage of the path to citizenship. Owl has said very similar.

Cut illegal immigration by 50% and you reduce the cost of taking care of them by a multiple of that, because their dependents won't be citizens. Turn them into LEGAL immigrants and I'd guess their income goes up and and their need for healthcare and criminal protection against exploitation goes down.


You know what the biggest problem with giving illegal aliens access to primary care? They still generally won't use it. They don't care what the ER costs because they don't pay for it. Why do they care if the PCP is cheaper? They also don't want the paper-trail that the PCPs office has.... like ID and family history.
02-03-2020 05:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 66,279
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 1785
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #25
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(01-31-2020 11:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 10:28 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 10:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that the left does not want a rational immigration policy. Leftists see a steady stream of illegal immigrants as steady supply of future leftist voters.
01-wingedeagle
Before you go doing stuff like that, why don't you first explain what policies they have pursued that deviate from that objective.
Catch and release?
Sanctuary cities?
Abolishing ICE?
Adding them to the welfare rolls?
Giving non-citizens the vote?

Try this, from the Spin Room, on for size:

(02-06-2020 08:11 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  okay guys.....you're dropping the ball with the relevant stuff....I just happened to catch this on Tucker during a hoops commercial break....
this shite will make your skin crawl.......I highly recommend youz read through this one....
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong.../5383/text
02-07-2020 08:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 66,279
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 1785
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #26
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(02-01-2020 07:44 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 11:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 10:28 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 10:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that the left does not want a rational immigration policy. Leftists see a steady stream of illegal immigrants as steady supply of future leftist voters.
01-wingedeagle
Before you go doing stuff like that, why don't you first explain what policies they have pursued that deviate from that objective.
Catch and release?
Sanctuary cities?
Abolishing ICE?
Adding them to the welfare rolls?
Giving non-citizens the vote?
I disagree with this, but before I do any research on it - you need to break down the time frame you're talking about when Democrats had control of the Presidency and House and Senate, and were in a position to make any meaningful legislative changes.

What relevance does control of the white house, HOR, or senate bear towards San Francisco's declaring itself a sanctuary city, or cities giving non-citizens the vote in local elections?
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2020 08:59 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-07-2020 08:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 45,372
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 608
I Root For: Rice
Location: Paradise

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #27
RE: Team Trump Awards Itself Participation Trophy
(02-07-2020 08:49 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-01-2020 07:44 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 11:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-31-2020 10:28 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-30-2020 10:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I realize that the left does not want a rational immigration policy. Leftists see a steady stream of illegal immigrants as steady supply of future leftist voters.
01-wingedeagle
Before you go doing stuff like that, why don't you first explain what policies they have pursued that deviate from that objective.
Catch and release?
Sanctuary cities?
Abolishing ICE?
Adding them to the welfare rolls?
Giving non-citizens the vote?
I disagree with this, but before I do any research on it - you need to break down the time frame you're talking about when Democrats had control of the Presidency and House and Senate, and were in a position to make any meaningful legislative changes.

What relevance does control of the white house, HOR, or senate bear towards San Francisco's declaring itself a sanctuary city, or cities giving non-citizens te right to vote in local elections?

None at all
02-07-2020 08:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.