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Ranked-Choice Voting
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-22-2020 05:41 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Your excuses for not registering to vote or not voting would be just as valid for not ever buying groceries or not ever seeing a dentist or never getting a haircut. Oh, those poor people - it is not convenient for them to go to town. They have to live their whole lives on the ranch.

Voting is a right and privilege that has constitutional and statutory protections. Unlike buying groceries, seeing a dentist, and getting a haircut. So I'm OK with the government doing a little more to help people vote than it does for those other things. Incidentally, none of those other things requires a specific form of ID.

I'm honestly not even a huge anti-voter ID law person. My opinion is that it is a very small problem compared to some of the other voting and ballot access issues. I have a little sympathy for Larry from Wisconsin, don't get me wrong, but not a lot.

I don't think the government should be intentionally making it harder for citizens to vote but I agree that overall voter ID laws affect very few voters, especially when there are provisional ballots and free ID cards available.

Whoosh. My point was not that they had to show ID, nor was it that they needed government protection.

My point is that rural people come into town every so often to do things or get things, such as buying groceries, going to doctors and dentists, and getting haircuts or new shoes. If they are in town and want to vote in the next election, all it takes is a quick swing by the DMV to get their ID. It doesn't take a special trip. You guys act like they have to cross the Donner Pass on foot in winter.

Most people I know minimize their driving/walking/riding/whatever by doing several errands at the same time. I bet even you city slickers do the same.
For example, I may go to the Post Office, then the bank, then to get my oil changed, then the grocery store, then to home. It doesn't really matter if I drove 3 miles or 100 miles, if I did not have a DL and wanted to vote in an upcoming election, I would just add one more stop - the DMV. Get my license. 15 minutes.

Of course, if I didn't care about voting, I would just skip that stop. No matter how convenient and cheap you make it.
01-22-2020 11:57 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-22-2020 11:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 05:30 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 03:42 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I would lay dollars to donuts that if every state opened a DMV desk manned 23.7 hours/day, each desk no more than a mile from the next nearest one there still would be beers and tears stories (oh, and the implied racism charge.)

I would take that bet in a heartbeat.

Don't bet what you cannot afford to lose.

Donuts are cheap my friend! And frankly, I gained a couple pounds over the holidays. With my youngest selling girl scout cookies and my wife buying king cakes a couple times a week, I could stand to lose a few donuts!!!
01-23-2020 12:39 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-22-2020 08:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?

I mean, I'm strident about voting but not about voter ID laws. I'm actually OK with voter ID laws as long as precautions are taken to make sure it is easy to get the correct ID.

I think I have taken a very reasonable approach to 2nd amendment issues. I have given thoughtful responses to suggestions by 69/70/75 and others (perhaps yourself). My basic opinion is that doing nothing is not OK. Let's take some 1st steps such as federal backgrounds checks and a few things 69/70/75 suggested and see if that helps. I can't remember if 69/70/75 likes red flag laws for terrorist watch lists, people with spousal/child abuse convictions, and specific mental illness red flags that can be reported by family and health care providers. I would be fine with those as well, so long as they contained due process procedures to challenge the red flags.

Just because we have some disagreements as to how to interpret the Constitution doesn't mean we don't both hold it as sacred.

I mean, I raised my hand and swore to:
Quote:support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

I also swore that:
Quote:as an attorney and as a counsel of this court I will conduct myself uprightly and according to law, and that I will support the Constitution of the United States.

I feel like you and I have had some very cordial exchanges in the past, but as I have begun to engage a bit more on The Quad, you are getting a bit more antagonized by me. Let's not let that happen. I truly like cordiality, professionalism, and kindness.

I had a case against an attorney who refused to shake hands with opposing counsel when they had a case against each other. Let's both strive to not be that guy, because that guy sucked.
01-23-2020 12:54 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 12:39 AM)mrbig Wrote:  my wife buying king cakes a couple times a week

That makes my very current, painful diet squeal with horror.

Dont break a tooth on the surprises inside....
01-23-2020 01:19 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 01:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 12:39 AM)mrbig Wrote:  my wife buying king cakes a couple times a week

That makes my very current, painful diet squeal with horror.

Dont break a tooth on the surprises inside....

My youngest cheats and steals the baby before anyone else is at risk of chipping a tooth.
01-23-2020 01:35 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #86
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 12:54 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 08:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?
I mean, I'm strident about voting but not about voter ID laws. I'm actually OK with voter ID laws as long as precautions are taken to make sure it is easy to get the correct ID.
I think I have taken a very reasonable approach to 2nd amendment issues. I have given thoughtful responses to suggestions by 69/70/75 and others (perhaps yourself). My basic opinion is that doing nothing is not OK. Let's take some 1st steps such as federal backgrounds checks and a few things 69/70/75 suggested and see if that helps. I can't remember if 69/70/75 likes red flag laws for terrorist watch lists, people with spousal/child abuse convictions, and specific mental illness red flags that can be reported by family and health care providers. I would be fine with those as well, so long as they contained due process procedures to challenge the red flags.

I don't really like the concept of red flag laws, unless there are strict constitutional protections. Maybe if there is a requirement for a court proceeding, were the proposed victim (perhaps not the best term, but one that I think appropriate) has the opportunity to confront his/her accuser in open court, before any action can be taken, then I could see my way to live with it.

Quote:Just because we have some disagreements as to how to interpret the Constitution doesn't mean we don't both hold it as sacred.
I mean, I raised my hand and swore to:
Quote:support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
I also swore that:
Quote:as an attorney and as a counsel of this court I will conduct myself uprightly and according to law, and that I will support the Constitution of the United States.
I feel like you and I have had some very cordial exchanges in the past, but as I have begun to engage a bit more on The Quad, you are getting a bit more antagonized by me. Let's not let that happen. I truly like cordiality, professionalism, and kindness.
I had a case against an attorney who refused to shake hands with opposing counsel when they had a case against each other. Let's both strive to not be that guy, because that guy sucked.

Tanq is from far west Texas and has that West Texas straightforwardness that some may find off-putting. Personally rather like it, because at least I know where I stand. But there is little room for small talk niceties in that approach.
01-23-2020 03:26 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #87
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 03:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 12:54 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 08:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?
I mean, I'm strident about voting but not about voter ID laws. I'm actually OK with voter ID laws as long as precautions are taken to make sure it is easy to get the correct ID.
I think I have taken a very reasonable approach to 2nd amendment issues. I have given thoughtful responses to suggestions by 69/70/75 and others (perhaps yourself). My basic opinion is that doing nothing is not OK. Let's take some 1st steps such as federal backgrounds checks and a few things 69/70/75 suggested and see if that helps. I can't remember if 69/70/75 likes red flag laws for terrorist watch lists, people with spousal/child abuse convictions, and specific mental illness red flags that can be reported by family and health care providers. I would be fine with those as well, so long as they contained due process procedures to challenge the red flags.

I don't really like the concept of red flag laws, unless there are strict constitutional protections. Maybe if there is a requirement for a court proceeding, were the proposed victim (perhaps not the best term, but one that I think appropriate) has the opportunity to confront his/her accuser in open court, before any action can be taken, then I could see my way to live with it.

Quote:Just because we have some disagreements as to how to interpret the Constitution doesn't mean we don't both hold it as sacred.
I mean, I raised my hand and swore to:
Quote:support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
I also swore that:
Quote:as an attorney and as a counsel of this court I will conduct myself uprightly and according to law, and that I will support the Constitution of the United States.
I feel like you and I have had some very cordial exchanges in the past, but as I have begun to engage a bit more on The Quad, you are getting a bit more antagonized by me. Let's not let that happen. I truly like cordiality, professionalism, and kindness.
I had a case against an attorney who refused to shake hands with opposing counsel when they had a case against each other. Let's both strive to not be that guy, because that guy sucked.

Tanq is from far west Texas and has that West Texas straightforwardness that some may find off-putting. Personally rather like it, because at least I know where I stand. But there is little room for small talk niceties in that approach.

Frankly, and this is the “straightforwardness” you talk about, Tanq regularly goes well beyond “straightforwardness” and passes right into smugness, condescension, and provocation.

“ Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?”

That isn’t “straightforwardness” above - notice all the unnecessary literary flourishes and commentary that don’t add to the point? Tanq regularly employs strategy that’s meant to talk down to those he is engaging with when he doesn’t agree with them, and all it does is reduce the quality of dialogue. I get pulled in by it way too much and too frequently respond in kind.
01-23-2020 06:29 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #88
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 06:29 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Frankly, and this is the “straightforwardness” you talk about, Tanq regularly goes well beyond “straightforwardness” and passes right into smugness, condescension, and provocation.
“ Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?”
That isn’t “straightforwardness” above - notice all the unnecessary literary flourishes and commentary that don’t add to the point? Tanq regularly employs strategy that’s meant to talk down to those he is engaging with when he doesn’t agree with them, and all it does is reduce the quality of dialogue. I get pulled in by it way too much and too frequently respond in kind.

OK, so it's not your cup of tea.
01-23-2020 07:42 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #89
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 07:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 06:29 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Frankly, and this is the “straightforwardness” you talk about, Tanq regularly goes well beyond “straightforwardness” and passes right into smugness, condescension, and provocation.
“ Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?”
That isn’t “straightforwardness” above - notice all the unnecessary literary flourishes and commentary that don’t add to the point? Tanq regularly employs strategy that’s meant to talk down to those he is engaging with when he doesn’t agree with them, and all it does is reduce the quality of dialogue. I get pulled in by it way too much and too frequently respond in kind.

OK, so it's not your cup of tea.

More, don’t piss on someone’s leg and tell them it’s raining.
01-23-2020 08:05 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #90
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 08:05 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 07:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 06:29 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Frankly, and this is the “straightforwardness” you talk about, Tanq regularly goes well beyond “straightforwardness” and passes right into smugness, condescension, and provocation.
“ Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?”
That isn’t “straightforwardness” above - notice all the unnecessary literary flourishes and commentary that don’t add to the point? Tanq regularly employs strategy that’s meant to talk down to those he is engaging with when he doesn’t agree with them, and all it does is reduce the quality of dialogue. I get pulled in by it way too much and too frequently respond in kind.
OK, so it's not your cup of tea.
More, don’t piss on someone’s leg and tell them it’s raining.

I don't really see that, but I guess you think that is an appropriate characterization. I would reserve that kind of comment for something more like, "You can keep your doctor." Tanq doesn't lie, he just doesn't mind being rude when he feels that the situation demands it. As I said before, I've noticed that often among west Texans, although Tanq is from a slightly different part of the state. I guess when your closest neighbor is 10 miles away, you don't worry so much about every single thing you say. Frankly, I kind of find that refreshing in what I consider to be today's overly PC world.

By the way, to those of us who now him, Tanq is very interesting and enjoyable to hang out with, and his unique observations make for stimulating conversation over a beer or whatever.

Anyway it's not with discussing further. I like him. He's not your cup of tea.
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2020 08:36 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-23-2020 08:35 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #91
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 08:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 08:05 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 07:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-23-2020 06:29 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Frankly, and this is the “straightforwardness” you talk about, Tanq regularly goes well beyond “straightforwardness” and passes right into smugness, condescension, and provocation.
“ Funny, so is the right to keep and bear arms. What other "rights" in the Constitution make it to the 'Big is strident about' as opposed to those that are glossed over?”
That isn’t “straightforwardness” above - notice all the unnecessary literary flourishes and commentary that don’t add to the point? Tanq regularly employs strategy that’s meant to talk down to those he is engaging with when he doesn’t agree with them, and all it does is reduce the quality of dialogue. I get pulled in by it way too much and too frequently respond in kind.
OK, so it's not your cup of tea.
More, don’t piss on someone’s leg and tell them it’s raining.

I don't really see that, but I guess you think that is an appropriate characterization. I would reserve that kind of comment for something more like, "You can keep your doctor." Tanq doesn't lie, he just doesn't mind being rude when he feels that the situation demands it. As I said before, I've noticed that often among west Texans, although Tanq is from a slightly different part of the state. I guess when your closest neighbor is 10 miles away, you don't worry so much about every single thing you say. Frankly, I kind of find that refreshing in what I consider to be today's overly PC world.

By the way, to those of us who now him, Tanq is very interesting and enjoyable to hang out with, and his unique observations make for stimulating conversation over a beer or whatever.

Anyway it's not with discussing further. I like him. He's not your cup of tea.

I mean, it's my initial comments wasn't at all related to liking/not liking Tanq. It was you trying to call the "rudeness" (as you put it) "straightforwardness" (as you also put it) that I felt the need to comment on.

One can be rude without being straightforward, and vice verse. But they're different characteristics, and I thought that needed to be pointed out.

That kind of talk/personality can be a lot of fun in a friend group. But I understand Big's comment, as this board facilitates interaction between relative strangers, and often touches on some very personal opinions. So depending on the conversation, it leads to a rather quick deconstruction of any sort of constructive conversation that may have been happening.

But yeah, I've made my point clearly, and I think you have too.
01-23-2020 09:07 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-23-2020 12:39 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 11:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 05:30 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 03:42 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I would lay dollars to donuts that if every state opened a DMV desk manned 23.7 hours/day, each desk no more than a mile from the next nearest one there still would be beers and tears stories (oh, and the implied racism charge.)

I would take that bet in a heartbeat.

Don't bet what you cannot afford to lose.

Donuts are cheap my friend! And frankly, I gained a couple pounds over the holidays. With my youngest selling girl scout cookies and my wife buying king cakes a couple times a week, I could stand to lose a few donuts!!!

Just saying, it sould not to too hard to find an anecdote of somebody who cannot walk the block to the polling place in the ice and snow because the are so poor they cannot afford a coat and anyways, their wheelchair is not stable, but they struggled just to find that when they finally got there a couple of hours later, they had forgotten their ID, so they returned home, brokenhearted, and did not have the strength to do it again, and so Marcus Pilates Jackson III, who she planned to vote for as her second choice, lost by one vote in the ranked voting.

Sob stories are not hard to find (or manufacture).

And when that story comes out you would owe donuts to the whole town.

I am glad you are making such a good living you can afford donuts. Another Rice success story. I haven't had a donut in three years. besides that long drive into town to the donut shop next to the DMV, I am a senior citizen without much steady income. Oh, woe is me!.

Canadian doughnuts
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2020 09:35 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-23-2020 09:08 AM
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Post: #93
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-22-2020 12:47 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-22-2020 11:29 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I have had a DL for 60 years now. I have had to go to the DMV many times to renew. Never had to wait hours, not even AN hour. More like 15 minutes, max. But tell us, how long did you wait the last time you went?

I lost my DL a couple years ago (of course, I subsequently found it somewhere stupid). But when I thought it was lost, I had to go to the DMV twice (it was my bad, I had something incorrect in the paperwork I brought during my 1st visit). Both waits were easily more than 60 minutes.

There are 2 DMV locations in New Orleans, but New Orleans doesn't have great public transportation and getting to them on a city bus from some parts of town would take a long time. Can make it tough for people with disabilities or people who don't drive.

Imagine all the money we spend on voter registration drives and purging voter rolls and arguing about voter registration and ID, and if that money was put into state ID's/licenses?

I agree that DMV in lots of places sucks very bad.... but that to me only proves that its not about keeping people from voting... because the problem exists before voter ID does.... and in both red and blue areas.

iirc, IDs are usually good for about 10 years... make 'getting an ID' (which of course makes people eligible for vastly more of 'the american dream' than just voting) part of other things, like getting benefits or insurance or a host of other things. You could literally do them at a library or police station or university or almost any state building. All you really need is a way to accept documents and take pictures. All of the stuff in the background can be done at a centralized location. No need to purge rolls as they would then essentially be self-purged every 10 years. If a party thinks their people are being disenfranchised in an area, they can pay to host an RV/Mobile ID center every two years.
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2020 10:32 AM by Hambone10.)
01-23-2020 10:27 AM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-17-2020 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 12:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:43 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I started posting here in hopes that someone would compliment my username, but no one ever did so now you're stuck with me.

I think you may have outclevered yourself, as I don’t think people understand your name. I know I don’t.

Musical reference, though not the most high-brow; you might even have heard the song in a store somewhere:

Artist: Fountains of Wayne
Album: Welcome Interstate Managers
Song: "Stacy's Mom"
September 29, 2003 S-Curve Records and Virgin Records




FOW or Fountains of Wayne, named after a lawn ornament store in Wayne, New Jersey that is no longer in business.
Couldn't say whether the OG would have liked it or not.
...
...
Fountains of Wayne's Adam Schlesinger hospitalized with COVID-19, his family is 'cautiously optimistic'
03-31-2020 01:37 PM
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Post: #95
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
Gee whiz.

Adam Schlesinger, Emmy Winner and Fountains of Wayne Cofounder, Dies of Coronavirus Complications at 52

[Image: adam-schlesinger-2.jpg]


Wow. He was an EGOT contender:
Quote: Schlesinger has been nominated for Oscars, Tonys, Grammys and Emmys and won the latter two awards.
That's pretty impressive; did not know that about him.

Quote:His Oscar nomination in 1997 was for writing the theme song for the Tom Hanks-directed film “That Thing You Do!,”
Also did not connect him to that song, though you can hear the obvious similarities with his own "Stacy's Mom. TTYD was a decent movie, fun to watch."
04-01-2020 09:19 PM
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