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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 10:55 AM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:32 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  ... not just from the conspiracy theorists here.

(01-16-2020 08:13 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  If by extending voting rights, you mean lowering the age and letting illegals vote, I would think you would not be proud of that.

If by extending voting rights, you mean keeping dead people and felons on the rolls instead of purging them,I have to wonder why you support that.

What democrats support ridiculous ideas like letting illegal immigrants vote or keeping dead people on voter rolls to abet election fraud? A very specific question. Which democratic politicians support these ideas. Please direct me to a speech or website with evidence. If you can't, it is your own fever dream.

To reiterate something I wrote yesterday:
(01-15-2020 10:09 AM)mrbig Wrote:  The thing I find most remarkable since I have started participating more in The Quad is how wrong the conservative takes are about democrats and liberals. You all do pretty good jobs of describing and explaining your beliefs, your positions, and even why you like or dislike conservative, libertarian, or republican politicians. But I think you do a pretty horrific job understanding the average democrat, liberal, or progressive.
I am glad you think I do a pretty good job describing my beliefs. I don’t think I do, else the people I describe them to would not get them so wrong.

Ok. I Am sitting in a hospital waiting room, writing on an IPad, and I am not very good at looking up stuff even on my desktop, so on evidence I will get back to you.

But there are jurisdictions in California that allow non citizens to vote in local elections. Look it up.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/n...xt-target/

as for conspiracy theorists, what better name have you for the people that clung bitterly to the Russia/Trump collusion myth in the face of overwhelming logic against it, and when it as disproven, switched to a different conspiracy theory?

As opposing the purging of voter rolls that seems to be pretty constantly a Democratic thing. Once again, try google. The constant refrain seems to be the Republicans want to purge the rolls, the Dems want to keep them as they are.

I admit I do not understand the liberal mind. For example, why would they oppose the purging of old voter rolls of ineligible voters?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...oter-rolls

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/poli...677466001/

PS: Not too shabby for an old curmudgeon working on an IPad in a waiting room. I can do more when I get home, or y’all could just google these questions yourselves.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2020 11:28 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-16-2020 11:05 AM
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Fountains of Wayne Graham Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 10:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:33 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  It'd be cool if OOwl could cool the partisan barbs from time to time. Really chills the discourse.

It would be cool if Fountains could stop playing senior corporal in the politeness police and butt out. Apparently he has no opinion on the topic under discussion

Nah, I like my role here

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01-16-2020 11:08 AM
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Fountains of Wayne Graham Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
OOwl the article you posted clearly articulates why some folks don't think its legal to purge voters that way.

Quote:The lawsuit alleges the purge would violate the voters' Fourteenth Amendment rights because the letters sent by the commission did not provide adequate notice of what voters needed to do to remain on the state's voter rolls, the consequences if they did not respond to the letter, or the timeline for them to act.

The plaintiffs also want the notices to provide instructions to the affected voters on how to keep their registrations from being removed.

The notices mailed by the commission in October did not tell the voters their registrations could be deactivated if they did not respond within 30 days.

Quote:Tuesday’s lawsuit was filed, in part, because Wisconsin is the only state belonging to the ERIC system that will remove a registered voter from its rolls within 30 days if that voter has moved to another part of the state. In other states, voters are removed only when they have moved to a different state, according to the lawsuit.

“The combination of these features of Wisconsin election law make it extremely important that, as the U.S. Constitution requires, the Commission’s voter roll maintenance rules and procedures afford registered Wisconsin voters adequate and clear notice of officials’ intention to remove voters from the rolls, the steps voters need to take to remain registered to vote, the consequences of failing to take action, and the deadline for any such action,” the lawsuit said.
01-16-2020 11:19 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:08 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:33 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  It'd be cool if OOwl could cool the partisan barbs from time to time. Really chills the discourse.

It would be cool if Fountains could stop playing senior corporal in the politeness police and butt out. Apparently he has no opinion on the topic under discussion

Nah, I like my role here

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Sa-LUTE! Reminds me of Hee Haw. Are you Junior Samples?

Seriously, what do you see as your role here, and who appointed you?
01-16-2020 11:35 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:55 AM)mrbig Wrote:  What democrats support ridiculous ideas like letting illegal immigrants vote or keeping dead people on voter rolls to abet election fraud? A very specific question. Which democratic politicians support these ideas. Please direct me to a speech or website with evidence. If you can't, it is your own fever dream.

But there are jurisdictions in California that allow non citizens to vote in local elections. Look it up.

California's Secretary of State website specifically says:
Quote:To register to vote in California, you must be:
* A United States citizen and a resident of California,
* 18 years old or older on Election Day,
* Not currently in state or federal prison or on parole for the conviction of a felony [], and
* Not currently found mentally incompetent to vote by a court [].

But I did find articles noting that there was an effort in some areas to let noncitizens vote in party elections (i.e. electing democratic party county chairs) and in some local elections (such as allowing noncitizens to vote in school board elections where their citizen children go to school). So I concede the point that there has been an extremely limited effort in a few California communities to allow this. Somehow trying to ascribe that to the democratic party, liberals, progressives, or even to Lad or myself without any additional evidence is more of a stretch than Gumby.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As opposing the purging of voter rolls that seems to be pretty constantly a Democratic thing. Once again, try google. The constant refrain seems to be the Republicans want to purge the rolls, the Dems want to keep them as they are.

I agree that Democrats are against certain voter roll purges. But not because such purges would remove the names of dead people, which is what you suggest.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I admit I do not understand the liberal mind. For example, why would they oppose the purging of old voter rolls of ineligible voters?

The problem is that many eligible voters are getting purged. People who did not vote in the last few elections. People who moved but forgot to update their address. People who either reported a slightly incorrect address reported or reported the correct address that was input incorrectly into the database.
01-16-2020 11:36 AM
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Fountains of Wayne Graham Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
Personally, I like ranked choice voting and support its expansion.

One pitfall is that it is more confusing to the less than savvy voter. For example, if there are candidates that you absolutely do not want, it's better to not rank them at all.
01-16-2020 11:37 AM
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Fountains of Wayne Graham Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:08 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:33 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  It'd be cool if OOwl could cool the partisan barbs from time to time. Really chills the discourse.

It would be cool if Fountains could stop playing senior corporal in the politeness police and butt out. Apparently he has no opinion on the topic under discussion

Nah, I like my role here

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b7611a11de421ce92a0e4df...=giphy.gif]


Sa-LUTE! Reminds me of Hee Haw. Are you Junior Samples?

Seriously, what do you see as your role here, and who appointed you?

I am the self-appointed Fountains of Wayne Graham.
01-16-2020 11:39 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:39 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:08 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 10:33 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  It'd be cool if OOwl could cool the partisan barbs from time to time. Really chills the discourse.

It would be cool if Fountains could stop playing senior corporal in the politeness police and butt out. Apparently he has no opinion on the topic under discussion

Nah, I like my role here

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b7611a11de421ce92a0e4df...=giphy.gif]


Sa-LUTE! Reminds me of Hee Haw. Are you Junior Samples?

Seriously, what do you see as your role here, and who appointed you?

I am the self-appointed Fountains of Wayne Graham.

The Great and Powerful FOWG.
01-16-2020 11:41 AM
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Fountains of Wayne Graham Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
I started posting here in hopes that someone would compliment my username, but no one ever did so now you're stuck with me.
01-16-2020 11:43 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/n...xt-target/

I go out of my way to find BBC articles and you are citing the National Review.03-phew

From that article:
Quote:But throughout the voting-rights debates of the civil-rights era, alien voting remained a fringe concept, relegated only to the most left-leaning jurisdictions. New York allowed aliens to vote in certain school board elections in 1968, but few municipalities followed suit. After the issue was taken up as a left-wing cause in the 1990s, we ended up pretty much where we are today, with around a dozen different jurisdictions across Maryland, California, Illinois, and New York offering noncitizens and even illegal immigrants access to the ballot.

So this is not a mainstream democratic or liberal idea.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...oter-rolls

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/poli...677466001/

From the 1st article you cite:
Quote:A recent investigation by the Dispatch found a vendor who works with county boards of election erroneously flagged more than 1,600 people for removal. A total of 1,641 voters who have voted since the 2015 primaries, which should have kept them from being flagged as infrequent voters, were sent notices over the summer warning that their registrations could be canceled.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  PS: Not too shabby for an old curmudgeon working on an IPad in a waiting room. I can do more when I get home, or y’all could just google these questions yourselves.

Agree, and I do appreciate the links, even if National Review isn't going to be the most trusted source for people of my political leaning.
01-16-2020 12:08 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 11:43 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I started posting here in hopes that someone would compliment my username, but no one ever did so now you're stuck with me.

I think you may have outclevered yourself, as I don’t think people understand your name. I know I don’t.
01-16-2020 12:10 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 12:08 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/n...xt-target/

I go out of my way to find BBC articles and you are citing the National Review.03-phew

From that article:
Quote:But throughout the voting-rights debates of the civil-rights era, alien voting remained a fringe concept, relegated only to the most left-leaning jurisdictions. New York allowed aliens to vote in certain school board elections in 1968, but few municipalities followed suit. After the issue was taken up as a left-wing cause in the 1990s, we ended up pretty much where we are today, with around a dozen different jurisdictions across Maryland, California, Illinois, and New York offering noncitizens and even illegal immigrants access to the ballot.

So this is not a mainstream democratic or liberal idea.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...oter-rolls

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/poli...677466001/

From the 1st article you cite:
Quote:A recent investigation by the Dispatch found a vendor who works with county boards of election erroneously flagged more than 1,600 people for removal. A total of 1,641 voters who have voted since the 2015 primaries, which should have kept them from being flagged as infrequent voters, were sent notices over the summer warning that their registrations could be canceled.

(01-16-2020 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  PS: Not too shabby for an old curmudgeon working on an IPad in a waiting room. I can do more when I get home, or y’all could just google these questions yourselves.

Agree, and I do appreciate the links, even if National Review isn't going to be the most trusted source for people of my political leaning.

Because they do not agree with you, or because they are corrupt and slanted?


In any case, Doesn’t mean they are wrong.

But what I do is just google, and post the links I find. I don’t go to any particular source. I don’t care if the source is Fox orCNN.

BTW, I am not the one who is a fan of the BBC. That’s Owl 69.

I prefer multiple sources and then using me to discern where the truth probably lies.
01-16-2020 12:18 PM
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Foff Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-15-2020 01:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I would think this would be a good choice in elections with a lot of candidates,like primaries.


I don’t think they would be so useful in elections that basically just two main candidates, as those generally get decided without the need for a run off.

I don’t see how this would be use in a Presidential election.

what dont you understand? would be used in presidential election exactly the same way as any other election.
01-17-2020 11:30 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-15-2020 01:36 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  The Democrats will fight it tooth and nail, including their usual end-run around the democratic process to get the courts to throw out any vote to implement it. Most third-party voters would vote Republican as their second choice.

my God you could not be farther offbase.

weve seen one "end-run around the democratic process to get the courts to throw out any vote to implement it" and it was by a REPUBLICAN challenging his loss to the democratic candidate.
https://www.mainepublic.org/post/federal...voting-law

why even post on here if youre so misinformed??
01-17-2020 11:34 AM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-16-2020 12:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:43 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I started posting here in hopes that someone would compliment my username, but no one ever did so now you're stuck with me.

I think you may have outclevered yourself, as I don’t think people understand your name. I know I don’t.

Musical reference, though not the most high-brow; you might even have heard the song in a store somewhere:

Artist: Fountains of Wayne
Album: Welcome Interstate Managers
Song: "Stacy's Mom"
September 29, 2003 S-Curve Records and Virgin Records




FOW or Fountains of Wayne, named after a lawn ornament store in Wayne, New Jersey that is no longer in business.
Couldn't say whether the OG would have liked it or not.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 01:34 PM by GoodOwl.)
01-17-2020 01:29 PM
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MOBalum Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
No longer in business? I passed that place on Rt. 46 a hundred times. It must've closed in there it couple years, certainly after the song was big.

FoWG, I have been loving your name since you showed up - I just post very rarely. It's one of my top two names here (WrySal is the other, and YOwl Ming is a close third).
01-17-2020 03:02 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-17-2020 01:29 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 12:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 11:43 AM)Fountains of Wayne Graham Wrote:  I started posting here in hopes that someone would compliment my username, but no one ever did so now you're stuck with me.

I think you may have outclevered yourself, as I don’t think people understand your name. I know I don’t.

Musical reference, though not the most high-brow; you might even have heard the song in a store somewhere:

Artist: Fountains of Wayne
Album: Welcome Interstate Managers
Song: "Stacy's Mom"
September 29, 2003 S-Curve Records and Virgin Records




FOW or Fountains of Wayne, named after a lawn ornament store in Wayne, New Jersey that is no longer in business.
Couldn't say whether the OG would have liked it or not.

Thanks for the explanation. I had never heard the song, AFAICR, but I like both the song and the video. Must say it brings back some good teenage memories.
01-17-2020 04:30 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
I'm still trying to understand why paper ballots would be a good idea and I mean that seriously.

I'm sure that ranked-choice could be done electronically... but I'm wanting to know why anyone thinks paper is safer?
01-18-2020 07:28 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-18-2020 07:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'm still trying to understand why paper ballots would be a good idea and I mean that seriously.

I'm sure that ranked-choice could be done electronically... but I'm wanting to know why anyone thinks paper is safer?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/...ology/amp/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/opinions/...index.html
01-18-2020 09:12 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Ranked-Choice Voting
(01-18-2020 09:12 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(01-18-2020 07:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'm still trying to understand why paper ballots would be a good idea and I mean that seriously.

I'm sure that ranked-choice could be done electronically... but I'm wanting to know why anyone thinks paper is safer?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/...ology/amp/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/opinions/...index.html

In short:

Quote:Without a paper audit trail, it can be difficult to detect errors or breaches in the voting machine’s software or hardware, possibly allowing an incursion into American voting systems to go unnoticed. Even if an error is found, performing an audit of a paperless system can be difficult or impossible given a lack of redundant records to verify vote totals.
01-19-2020 08:43 AM
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