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Jim Brown CFB GOAT
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Jim Brown CFB GOAT
(01-17-2020 06:02 PM)panama Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 04:08 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 12:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Brown is probably the NFL GOAT, but i do not think his college accomplishments enough to merit that.

GOAT will always be in the eye of the beholder. And I always think that the age of the beholder strongly influences his vote. For an old fart like me, when I heard they were going to make this list, my mind immediately went to Jim Brown.

But why? Did you really see Jim Brown play in college football? You'd have to be in your 70s to have done that. You might be but I'm just saying, because I'm 55, a pretty old fart myself, and not only never saw him play in college, I missed his whole NFL career as well. He retired when I was 1 years old.

So just looking at his college numbers, I don't think there's any way he can be regarded as the GOAT, not even close. Not ahead of Herschel and Bo and OJ, and that QB from Nebraska in the 90s or Tebow or Cam or a whole bunch of guys. Ron Dayne had a better career. Bleacher Report had him as the #8 RB of all time and that was generous.

I think it obvious that a Halo Effect caused by his NFL GOAT-ness and his overall multi-sport athletic greatness is influencing this appraisal.

I did, and I am. I'm not some young whippersnapper like you guys (only really old farts talk like that). 04-cheers

I'm old enough to have watched Bobby Thompson's home run against the Dodgers break my dad's heart and Notre Dame's Dick Lynch end the Sooners 47 game winning streak.

It's really meaningless to compare modern statistics to earlier eras like that one. Sports - all sports - have changed far too much. As for Heisman voting, I doubt there was another black player in the Top Ten that year, and the guys ahead of him couldn't hold a candle to Jim Brown. If Paul Hornung had been on any other team besides Notre Dame he would only have gotten a handful of votes instead of winning it all.

So, get off my lawn!
Agree 100% on Hornung. I Mena Jim Brown is THE model Syracuse #44. They competed with USC for a few years as you which was RB U. Some are acting like he was an average player that suddenly got GREAT in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I've seen exactly zero people act like that. Everyone says Brown had an outstanding career at Syracuse and that he arguably should have won the 1956 Heisman.

What people are claiming is that his God-like NFL status (totally deserved) is influencing his retrospective appraisal as a college player, because his college record just does not compare to those of several other players. As I've said, he wasn't even the clear-cut best player in 1956, at least a couple other guys had very strong claims as well. Brown did play both ways, but that was not uncommon back then, at least two other Heisman finalists did as well. It's also likely that Brown's career as a college athlete is affecting the appraisal, as he was an outstanding basketball player and has been mentioned as the GOAT lacrosse player to this day.

I think Brown's last game, the 1957 Cotton Bowl, is indicative. He ran 26 times for 136 yards and 3 TDs. Plus he kicked 3 extra points. Outstanding. But he also fumbled once and threw an interception and missed an XP in a game they lost by a point. Overall, a very good game but hardly GOAT-worthy. The TCU quarterback, who was 12-15 for 174 Yards with 2 TDs and 0 INTs was probably the better choice for game MVP.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 08:39 PM by quo vadis.)
01-17-2020 08:35 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Jim Brown CFB GOAT
(01-17-2020 08:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 06:02 PM)panama Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 04:08 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  GOAT will always be in the eye of the beholder. And I always think that the age of the beholder strongly influences his vote. For an old fart like me, when I heard they were going to make this list, my mind immediately went to Jim Brown.

But why? Did you really see Jim Brown play in college football? You'd have to be in your 70s to have done that. You might be but I'm just saying, because I'm 55, a pretty old fart myself, and not only never saw him play in college, I missed his whole NFL career as well. He retired when I was 1 years old.

So just looking at his college numbers, I don't think there's any way he can be regarded as the GOAT, not even close. Not ahead of Herschel and Bo and OJ, and that QB from Nebraska in the 90s or Tebow or Cam or a whole bunch of guys. Ron Dayne had a better career. Bleacher Report had him as the #8 RB of all time and that was generous.

I think it obvious that a Halo Effect caused by his NFL GOAT-ness and his overall multi-sport athletic greatness is influencing this appraisal.

I did, and I am. I'm not some young whippersnapper like you guys (only really old farts talk like that). 04-cheers

I'm old enough to have watched Bobby Thompson's home run against the Dodgers break my dad's heart and Notre Dame's Dick Lynch end the Sooners 47 game winning streak.

It's really meaningless to compare modern statistics to earlier eras like that one. Sports - all sports - have changed far too much. As for Heisman voting, I doubt there was another black player in the Top Ten that year, and the guys ahead of him couldn't hold a candle to Jim Brown. If Paul Hornung had been on any other team besides Notre Dame he would only have gotten a handful of votes instead of winning it all.

So, get off my lawn!
Agree 100% on Hornung. I Mena Jim Brown is THE model Syracuse #44. They competed with USC for a few years as you which was RB U. Some are acting like he was an average player that suddenly got GREAT in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I've seen exactly zero people act like that. Everyone says Brown had an outstanding career at Syracuse and that he arguably should have won the 1956 Heisman.

Someone did make this kooky statement:


"Jim Brown’s football legacy is 99.9% Cleveland Browns and 00.1% Syracuse."

01-wingedeagle
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 11:28 PM by cuseroc.)
01-17-2020 11:27 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Jim Brown CFB GOAT
(01-17-2020 11:27 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 08:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 06:02 PM)panama Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 04:08 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 10:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  But why? Did you really see Jim Brown play in college football? You'd have to be in your 70s to have done that. You might be but I'm just saying, because I'm 55, a pretty old fart myself, and not only never saw him play in college, I missed his whole NFL career as well. He retired when I was 1 years old.

So just looking at his college numbers, I don't think there's any way he can be regarded as the GOAT, not even close. Not ahead of Herschel and Bo and OJ, and that QB from Nebraska in the 90s or Tebow or Cam or a whole bunch of guys. Ron Dayne had a better career. Bleacher Report had him as the #8 RB of all time and that was generous.

I think it obvious that a Halo Effect caused by his NFL GOAT-ness and his overall multi-sport athletic greatness is influencing this appraisal.

I did, and I am. I'm not some young whippersnapper like you guys (only really old farts talk like that). 04-cheers

I'm old enough to have watched Bobby Thompson's home run against the Dodgers break my dad's heart and Notre Dame's Dick Lynch end the Sooners 47 game winning streak.

It's really meaningless to compare modern statistics to earlier eras like that one. Sports - all sports - have changed far too much. As for Heisman voting, I doubt there was another black player in the Top Ten that year, and the guys ahead of him couldn't hold a candle to Jim Brown. If Paul Hornung had been on any other team besides Notre Dame he would only have gotten a handful of votes instead of winning it all.

So, get off my lawn!
Agree 100% on Hornung. I Mena Jim Brown is THE model Syracuse #44. They competed with USC for a few years as you which was RB U. Some are acting like he was an average player that suddenly got GREAT in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I've seen exactly zero people act like that. Everyone says Brown had an outstanding career at Syracuse and that he arguably should have won the 1956 Heisman.

Someone did make this kooky statement:


"Jim Brown’s football legacy is 99.9% Cleveland Browns and 00.1% Syracuse."

01-wingedeagle
This. It's also hard to compare eras. It was an era when freshmen didn't play varsity. A sophomore was unlikely to start over a senior which was Jim Brown's case in 1954. He still ran for 2000 yards in his three year career. Ernie Davis ran for 2300 yards in his career and had a similar number of TDs. Howard Cassady who won the 1955 Heisman ran for 2374 yards in his career. Alan Amerie was the NCAA record holder with 3212 yards and 25 TDs for several years. So Brown's numbers were in keeping with the greats of his era.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
01-18-2020 09:58 AM
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TexanMark Online
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Post: #64
RE: Jim Brown CFB GOAT
(01-18-2020 09:58 AM)panama Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 11:27 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 08:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 06:02 PM)panama Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 04:08 PM)ken d Wrote:  I did, and I am. I'm not some young whippersnapper like you guys (only really old farts talk like that). 04-cheers

I'm old enough to have watched Bobby Thompson's home run against the Dodgers break my dad's heart and Notre Dame's Dick Lynch end the Sooners 47 game winning streak.

It's really meaningless to compare modern statistics to earlier eras like that one. Sports - all sports - have changed far too much. As for Heisman voting, I doubt there was another black player in the Top Ten that year, and the guys ahead of him couldn't hold a candle to Jim Brown. If Paul Hornung had been on any other team besides Notre Dame he would only have gotten a handful of votes instead of winning it all.

So, get off my lawn!
Agree 100% on Hornung. I Mena Jim Brown is THE model Syracuse #44. They competed with USC for a few years as you which was RB U. Some are acting like he was an average player that suddenly got GREAT in the NFL.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I've seen exactly zero people act like that. Everyone says Brown had an outstanding career at Syracuse and that he arguably should have won the 1956 Heisman.

Someone did make this kooky statement:


"Jim Brown’s football legacy is 99.9% Cleveland Browns and 00.1% Syracuse."

01-wingedeagle
This. It's also hard to compare eras. It was an era when freshmen didn't play varsity. A sophomore was unlikely to start over a senior which was Jim Brown's case in 1954. He still ran for 2000 yards in his three year career. Ernie Davis ran for 2300 yards in his career and had a similar number of TDs. Howard Cassady who won the 1955 Heisman ran for 2374 yards in his career. Alan Amerie was the NCAA record holder with 3212 yards and 25 TDs for several years. So Brown's numbers were in keeping with the greats of his era.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

This...plus he didn't even start out at RB. Coach Schwartzwalder wanted him to start more on defense.
01-18-2020 11:33 AM
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