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C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #61
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

Who is Adam Gold and why should I care what he thinks?

Oh. Raleigh sports guy. We embarassed a Carolina guy. Now I get it.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 10:50 AM by 82hawk.)
01-14-2020 10:49 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #62
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 10:49 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

Who is Adam Gold and why should I care what he thinks?

Oh. Raleigh sports guy. We embarassed a Carolina guy. Now I get it.

You shouldn't care what he thinks, and he was calling a true Carolina guy (R.L. Bynum) a dope for hinting that the move may have been correct. He's just an idiot without any real insight into sports. Well, maybe he knows hockey, but he's not worth listening to regarding basketball or football.
01-14-2020 10:54 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Online
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 09:25 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Based on the names that have been mentioned on this thread, I like Shaver and Moton the most. There seem to be a lot of advantages to Shaver; I wonder how our current pieces fit in his system? I absolutely love Moton and I was really interested in him when we went through this exercise three years ago. Soderberg and Sutton also fit the description of what we seem to need. Just from reading bio's, I like Soderberg. I don't really have a strong opinion on Byington. Would be cool to see an alumnus succeed, but that is secondary.

I like Shaver the most from that short list, and that's probably because I'm familiar with him. Moton wouldn't be a bad deal. I'm not sold on Byington. Reason being... Gary Shipman. He's already out on social media going all in on Byington and how that's the best choice. Those of you that have been around a while and familiar with the '06 Brownell debacle should be aware of Shipman and his affect on the program.
01-14-2020 11:03 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #64
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:03 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:25 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Based on the names that have been mentioned on this thread, I like Shaver and Moton the most. There seem to be a lot of advantages to Shaver; I wonder how our current pieces fit in his system? I absolutely love Moton and I was really interested in him when we went through this exercise three years ago. Soderberg and Sutton also fit the description of what we seem to need. Just from reading bio's, I like Soderberg. I don't really have a strong opinion on Byington. Would be cool to see an alumnus succeed, but that is secondary.

I like Shaver the most from that short list, and that's probably because I'm familiar with him. Moton wouldn't be a bad deal. I'm not sold on Byington. Reason being... Gary Shipman. He's already out on social media going all in on Byington and how that's the best choice. Those of you that have been around a while and familiar with the '06 Brownell debacle should be aware of Shipman and his affect on the program.

He has no influence.
01-14-2020 11:18 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #65
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:03 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:25 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Based on the names that have been mentioned on this thread, I like Shaver and Moton the most. There seem to be a lot of advantages to Shaver; I wonder how our current pieces fit in his system? I absolutely love Moton and I was really interested in him when we went through this exercise three years ago. Soderberg and Sutton also fit the description of what we seem to need. Just from reading bio's, I like Soderberg. I don't really have a strong opinion on Byington. Would be cool to see an alumnus succeed, but that is secondary.

I like Shaver the most from that short list, and that's probably because I'm familiar with him. Moton wouldn't be a bad deal. I'm not sold on Byington. Reason being... Gary Shipman. He's already out on social media going all in on Byington and how that's the best choice. Those of you that have been around a while and familiar with the '06 Brownell debacle should be aware of Shipman and his affect on the program.

CG would get to have his cake and eat it too. He could be a co-fan of UNCW and William and Mary under one roof....04-cheers
01-14-2020 11:20 AM
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oasispirate Offline
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Post: #66
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

(01-14-2020 10:49 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

Joe Ovies seemed to disagree with the move too. I don't care one bit what the talking heads in Raleigh say, especially when they mock the fact that it's UNCW making the move midseason.

I would say there knowledge is limited outside of the ACC.
01-14-2020 11:23 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 08:58 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  If you think CB's Defense drove you nuts......................

I don't think CB ever really had a plan on defense. At least Shaver had a scheme and stuck to it. He mixes in a lot of Zone D to his scheme and emphasizes defensive intensity in his practices. His guys were always getting a lot of steals and turnovers.

I also think at least some of the issues with their defensive #'s were personnel-driven. Without the incredibly high academic standards at W&M, he'd be able to bring in a little better brand of athlete to play good D coupled with his 4 Out Motion Offense that works so well.

Not saying Shaver should be our # 1 choice necessarily, only that it would be good if he's in the mix. He has a high floor for what he can do here, even if his ceiling is a little more limited than other guys we might be able to hire.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 11:26 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-14-2020 11:24 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Online
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Post: #68
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:20 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:03 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:25 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Based on the names that have been mentioned on this thread, I like Shaver and Moton the most. There seem to be a lot of advantages to Shaver; I wonder how our current pieces fit in his system? I absolutely love Moton and I was really interested in him when we went through this exercise three years ago. Soderberg and Sutton also fit the description of what we seem to need. Just from reading bio's, I like Soderberg. I don't really have a strong opinion on Byington. Would be cool to see an alumnus succeed, but that is secondary.

I like Shaver the most from that short list, and that's probably because I'm familiar with him. Moton wouldn't be a bad deal. I'm not sold on Byington. Reason being... Gary Shipman. He's already out on social media going all in on Byington and how that's the best choice. Those of you that have been around a while and familiar with the '06 Brownell debacle should be aware of Shipman and his affect on the program.

CG would get to have his cake and eat it too. He could be a co-fan of UNCW and William and Mary under one roof....04-cheers

HAHAHAHA.

Ya know... I figured these hits would be coming the more I come out in support for Shaver. I'd gladly sacrifice myself in that regard if he came in here and was successful. I always liked the style of players he recruited too. He brought in bigger guys that were tough and gritty and paired those players with some really athletic and talented guards. Plus, I'm old school and love the Princeton style offense.
01-14-2020 11:27 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 10:36 AM)82hawk Wrote:  "Gritty defense".....you drunk?

He's right. Shaver recruited finesse offensive guys but tried to teach them to play tough D simultaneously. Not easy to do and it doesn't always work out perfectly. But however they got there, the Tribe were always towards the top of the standings and that's what matters most.

In the post-VCU/GMU/ODU CAA, Shaver was at minimum the 2nd best coach in the league behind Coen for close to a decade.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 11:29 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-14-2020 11:28 AM
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82hawk Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
The one thing I will say about Shaver is that he was the biggest thorn in our side when Keatts was here. William and Mary blew us out in Keatts last season, and we had to put up 100+ to beat them in the CAA tournament our last year in a pretty tight game. He also seemed to find really good talent

I'm coming around.....
01-14-2020 11:28 AM
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:18 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:03 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:25 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Based on the names that have been mentioned on this thread, I like Shaver and Moton the most. There seem to be a lot of advantages to Shaver; I wonder how our current pieces fit in his system? I absolutely love Moton and I was really interested in him when we went through this exercise three years ago. Soderberg and Sutton also fit the description of what we seem to need. Just from reading bio's, I like Soderberg. I don't really have a strong opinion on Byington. Would be cool to see an alumnus succeed, but that is secondary.

I like Shaver the most from that short list, and that's probably because I'm familiar with him. Moton wouldn't be a bad deal. I'm not sold on Byington. Reason being... Gary Shipman. He's already out on social media going all in on Byington and how that's the best choice. Those of you that have been around a while and familiar with the '06 Brownell debacle should be aware of Shipman and his affect on the program.

He has no influence.

Good to know! I trust ya. 04-cheers
01-14-2020 11:30 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
The one thing I will say is I just looked at the Defensive Efficiency numbers for W&M under Shaver, according to Ken Pomeroy, and they weren't good. Their D was ranked outside of the 200 in Defensive Efficiency (adjusted for schedule strength) pretty much every year that I looked at.

But again, I attribute a lot of that to the level of talent and not just scheme.

At the very least we would know Shaver has a tried and true offensive scheme he can lean on for a lot of wins. That's more than you could say about the likes of Benny Moss and C.B., whose teams lacked identity.

Cast a wide net and consider a lot of different candidates. But even if he doesn't end up a finalist I would be very happy to see Shaver's name somewhere on our list.

I do know that behind the scenes, a lot of people at UNCW (and the CAA in general) were thinking W&M was crazy for firing Shaver. He's a well-respected Coach in a lot of circles.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 11:37 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-14-2020 11:34 AM
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Gary Miller Offline
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Post: #73
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:23 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

(01-14-2020 10:49 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:41 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Adam Gold does not like the move.

http://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/1217107986029731841

Joe Ovies seemed to disagree with the move too. I don't care one bit what the talking heads in Raleigh say, especially when they mock the fact that it's UNCW making the move midseason.

I would say there knowledge is limited outside of the ACC.

It's complete BS to say it never makes sense to fire a coach midseason. A lot of this hiring process is going to be done behind closed doors, not just the HC. We could have someone lined up and that person can already have their staff constructed by the time the hire is officially announced. We won't be behind the 8 ball this time.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 11:54 AM by Gary Miller.)
01-14-2020 11:51 AM
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
Defensively, I think it was scheme/play style as much as the recruits. Knight has been much stronger on defense this year, and our PG Loewe has turned into a great lock down defender. It could take a few years for Shaver to get his system in place, but I think he'd do relatively well at UNCW.
01-14-2020 01:36 PM
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 01:36 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Defensively, I think it was scheme/play style as much as the recruits. Knight has been much stronger on defense this year, and our PG Loewe has turned into a great lock down defender. It could take a few years for Shaver to get his system in place, but I think he'd do relatively well at UNCW.

If I do recall correctly just from general conversation with WM fans and reading through your forum post-firing of Shaver, the primary knocks on him were that he never won the CAAT and defense. However, he had some really solid defensive minded players, Terry Tarpey comes to mind immediately. That guy was just an absolute menace to watch players deal with.
01-14-2020 01:39 PM
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
Shaver recruited very well(along with his assistants). Basically all of the talent of this season's team was brought to W&M by Shaver. All of the best players on this year's Tribe team played last year(or were transferring in(Van Vliet) In addition, we had Cameron Brown coming in(who transferred to St Joe's after the firing). So, he can recruit well. Last year, I maintain that the conference this year is even weaker than last year and that Shaver would be doing very well this year(with far more talent that we currently have), but we will never know.
Coach Fischer did a good job getting in some players quickly during the carnage between March and June. He has exceeded expectations I think so far. Next year could be much more difficult as the Tribe will lose basically everything inside along with any graduate transfers. At that point, 7 straight years in the top half of the league may end. But, Coach Fischer is representing W&M very well. I hope he is in Williamsburg for a long time. It certainly was not the plan of our administration, but it has worked out so far for them. Putting total focus on 3 games in March is a tough standard for any program. Being competitive and successful consistently is probably better. Under the former standard, W&M fans should want to be JMU. A title in 2013, and a total dumpster-fire since.
Shaver got W&M far closer that the Tribe had ever been. It will be bittersweet for some if Fischer gets the Tribe over the finish line this year. But, since we have never been to the tourney or won a tourney CAA title, it will still be a significant positive on the whole. Winning conference tourney games is not easy and he won a lot of them. But a bad 2nd half last March against the Hens was all it took to end it. Still not watching this season thanks in part to FloSports. All our battles with the Seahawks were very high quality basketball during the Keatts/Shaver years. Hope things get back to that level soon.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 02:48 PM by TribePride91.)
01-14-2020 02:42 PM
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Post: #77
RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
Nice. Just dump that Flo$port$ deal and we're in the right direction.
01-14-2020 02:50 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
Interesting a few of the players, Simms, Bowen and Tolfree all tweeting support for CB.....
01-14-2020 03:10 PM
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Gary Miller Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 03:10 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Interesting a few of the players, Simms, Bowen and Tolfree all tweeting support for CB.....

Saw that, not really surprised. If anything, I would've thought more than 3 players would've gone to social media.
01-14-2020 03:13 PM
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82hawk Offline
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RE: C.B. McGrath fired: Burke to serve as Interim Coach
(01-14-2020 11:24 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:58 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  If you think CB's Defense drove you nuts......................

I don't think CB ever really had a plan on defense. At least Shaver had a scheme and stuck to it. He mixes in a lot of Zone D to his scheme and emphasizes defensive intensity in his practices. His guys were always getting a lot of steals and turnovers.

I also think at least some of the issues with their defensive #'s were personnel-driven. Without the incredibly high academic standards at W&M, he'd be able to bring in a little better brand of athlete to play good D coupled with his 4 Out Motion Offense that works so well.

Not saying Shaver should be our # 1 choice necessarily, only that it would be good if he's in the mix. He has a high floor for what he can do here, even if his ceiling is a little more limited than other guys we might be able to hire.

Two sides to that coin. Most mid major players will never earn a living playing basketball, so the school and degree they can obtain becomes the most important factor. These players get a free education from an elite university, much like Davidson. They may have been able to go after players we could have never gotten based on that criteria.
01-14-2020 03:53 PM
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