https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-sign-stealing-penalty

Wow, much worse than I was expecting. Hinch and Luhnow are suspended for the entire 2020 season without pay. The Astros get fined $5 million, and lose their 1st and 2nd round in the 2020 and 2021 drafts.

It sounds like the Red Sox are next up on the penalty phase.

It hasn't been a good 24 hours for Houston professional sports teams.

Feel like, at least as a fan, this is nothing. I'm sure if you ask 100 Indians fans if they'd trade $5 mil, draft picks, and suspensions for a championship next year, 95 would sign up immediately.

Both Luhnow and Hinch have been fired.

With rare exceptions, it's extremely difficult to obtain top-level talent outside of the first 2 rounds of the MLB draft (more specifically, the 1st half of the first round). The loss of 1st and 2nd round picks in 2020 and 2021 will hurt in about 4 years. If they don't win this season, look for the Astros to begin trading veterans for lower level prospects (to prevent a Marlins-like implosion).

The twitter universe is rightfully pointing out that Roberto Osuna is still an Houston Astros player (for now at least).

I also think Crane's move will turn away a lot of fans. The Patriots didn't fire Bill Bellichek.

Should have placed a bet in Vegas on who would be fired first - BOB or AJH. I could have made a really big contribution to Rice Athletics. The HRS Tomball Owl Stadium Club could have been a reality.

(01-13-2020 03:08 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  Both Luhnow and Hinch have been fired.

This did not change the betting odds for the Astros to win the 2020 World Series. That says a lot about the importance of the manager and general manager in the day to day outcome of games. Pretty sad for the manager.

(01-13-2020 06:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Should have placed a bet in Vegas on who would be fired first - BOB or AJH. I could have made a really big contribution to Rice Athletics. The HRS Tomball Owl Stadium Club could have been a reality.

I find the Texans vote of confidence for BOB more depressing than the firing of AJH.

(01-14-2020 08:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 06:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Should have placed a bet in Vegas on who would be fired first - BOB or AJH. I could have made a really big contribution to Rice Athletics. The HRS Tomball Owl Stadium Club could have been a reality.

I find the Texans vote of confidence for BOB more depressing than the firing of AJH.

+1

(01-13-2020 04:21 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I also think Crane's move will turn away a lot of fans.

Did the Astros raise ticket prices again for the upcoming season? If so, Crane should consider rescinding those increases or even lowering prices. Won’t happen, but it would be a nice gesture of his sincerity.

I have seen some (unscientific) polls that 60% of Houston fans think the punishment was "too harsh" (Channel 11). I think Houston fans need to think what they would think is fair if the team in question was not the home team. If the offender was New York or Chicago, most fans in Houston would be calling for the manager and GM to get fired (as Jim Crane delivered), not just suspended. My guess is most Houston fans would also want to the World Series title rescinded if it was another team, like the Red Sox, Angels or Rangers.

This was a tough move for Mr. Crane to make, but it was the right one.

Alex Cora now gone too. And you wonder if the Mets keep Beltran after all.

Okay, I have had a day to digest all of this crap. I have three major opinions, which have evolved somewhat over the last 24 hours:

1. I think Crane was short-sighted and over-reacted in firing Lunhow and Hinch. They were already being significantly embarrassed and punished, by being banned for a year. Now we lose two of the smartest people in baseball - who will undoubtedly be replaced by people with significantly less talent. In my mind he made a huge mistake doing that. It was especially critical that he keep Hinch, because the players like him so much. Getting thrown under the bus like that by his Owner has got to make players like Springer determined not to re-sign with the Astros.

2. The Red Sox just fired Cora, hoping to minimize their penalties. That better not be the case. The Red Sox continued with their cheating way after the Astros had stopped. Their penalties had better be just as bad as what was done to Houston. If not, we all know the "fix is in."

3. The guys who will be taking the most heat this coming season will be the Astros players themselves - which is fair. They were the ones cheating, so it is fair that they will be the ones facing the most heckling and jeering on the road. My hope is that they commit hard to making this season about getting their reputations back and have a great season.

And speaking of cheating, we better not be getting any "twitter criticism" from Los Angeles fans - considering the biggest cheat in Professional Sports is now playing basketball for them.

https://youtu.be/YaKILPV78DU
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I don't have a problem with MLB's penalties for the Astros or Crane's ensuing decisions. I will have a problem if the Red Sox and other teams that may be implicated do not receive an equivalent and proportionate penalty, because it seems pretty clear that there were a number of transgressions at a similar level.

On MLB radio today, they were discussing what the Astros should do. Dan O'Dowd was very insistent that they need to hire two experienced and well-respected people as president of baseball operations and field manager to navigate them through this. Buck Showalter and Bruce Bochy were mentioned as manager candidates, and I think either would be good. O'Dowd did not mention anyone for the president of baseball operations position. He also suggested a young, up-and-coming GM who is totally bought into the analytics approach to understudy the president of baseball operations and take over in a couple of years when the worst is blown over.

I wonder if this would create an opportunity to bring the Ryans back into a major role in team operations. Their departures sort of struck me as a bad development, and I would like to have them back.

I think the loss of draft choices is the most critical penalty, but they effectively went without a 1st or 2nd round choice for about a decade of the Drayton McLane era, and still survived and competed almost to the end.

What may hurt them in the short term is all the prospects they had to give up for Grienke, but with Cole departing that may have been a necessity.

Luhnow probably can never work in baseball again, but he may not need to work at all. Hinch and Cora can probably get back into the game at some point, but will probably be blacklisted for a few years.

My $0.02...

1. The sweetest revenge will be winning the 2020 WS, and maybe beyond. Tough under any circumstances.

2. Why does anyone care about sign stealing anyway? My opinion: the game would be better if pitchers would just decide what to throw and throw it. 'Might be more passed balls. But it would be even around the league. If a team thought they needed to use signs, fine. Let them risk having them stolen. Teams should learn to change signs more often anyway. It might weed out the dumber pitchers.

3. Garbage can night at Minute Maid. Think of all the free trash cans being banged on. Wouldn't that be poetic justice? They could fill them with beer....

It is rumored to be 8 or 9 teams involved in sign stealing. Manfred’s heavy hand may come back to bite him. I doubt that MLB will want to have that many teams penalized.

I'm okay with no signs whatsoever (it seems so ancient of a system). But why can't the pitcher and catcher use wireless technology and small ear buds to talk to each other to decide the pitches? It can be hacked or stolen I suppose, but it would speed up the game for sure.

Signs are not just for pitcher and catcher. The other defenders also see them and use them to position themselves.

(01-16-2020 08:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Signs are not just for pitcher and catcher. The other defenders also see them and use them to position themselves.

Maybe the middle infielders can see them but the corner infielders aren't going to be able to see the pitcher/catcher interaction. The outfielders get their signals from the bench for defense.

Regardless, give ear buds to everyone. Let them all in on the fun.

Again, why is baseball stuck in the 19th century with signals? They seem to be fine in embracing technology in all other aspects of the game.