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WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #21
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
I think as a society we have a tendency to pigeon hole things. My oldest is in management with a top tech company. They have a vocal performance degree. I recently talked to someone that is very successful in digital graphics with a performing arts
degree in piano. In the discussion, she said that creative people are usually creative in a number of areas. While creating technicians, we still need to have develop people that can think. Before the fiscal
sickle falls, we need to take a long look at the University's purpose and its ability to shape society.
01-14-2020 09:45 AM
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DetroitRocket Online
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Post: #22
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 08:34 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 07:40 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 06:42 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 10:34 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 07:38 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  BG does NOT have a college of engineering.

While you're TECHNICALLY correct in that they do not have an accredited Engineering School...you best believe that is their intent with the expansion of their programs within CTAE and the renovation of their facilities.

https://www.bgsu.edu/technology-architec...ering.html

https://www.bgfalconmedia.com/campus/tec...a70ad.html

They tried it with Nursing and the State shot it down, one can only hope the State realizes the stupidity of this venture and does the same.

BG has no PhD programs besides a Technology Management program with engineering powerhouse Indiana State. UT has robust PhD programs including highly desired areas of Bioengineering, Biomedical Engineering and Computer Science and Engineering.

Ok? There are many strong Engineering Schools that do not have PhD programs (including the institution where the current Dean of our College of Engineering was formerly employed and is an alumni of). Not sure why that is of significant import in this discussion.

scratches head

You said they had a College of Engineering and he was making a correction. Your error flaws your argument. Correct the error and make your merger case based upon the correction, my suggesiton.

BTW: College of Education is a clear money maker due to state and local requirements. No one is going to give that up in a merger. And it's hardly monolithic. One might have a great Liberal Ed Dept and the other be stronger in the Sciences Ed, just a suppositional example. Same goes for almost any two institutions and any two colleges. People have to relocate to places they never intended to be. You'll risk losing your best to neither institution.

I don't think your idea of merger into one institution has any legs or any potential positive outcome. It would weaken both institutions in a way they may not recover. That would hit the state, hard.

Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem
01-14-2020 10:51 AM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #23
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 10:51 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem

They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?
01-14-2020 11:12 AM
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PaulJ Offline
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Post: #24
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-13-2020 04:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:10 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 02:27 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  There is a reckoning coming, myself and PaulJ have been talking about it for awhile on here. Their numbers are almost exactly the same as our as far as enrollment decreases are concerned...but they all receive quite a bit more in SSI Money from the state of Michigan. More and more people are becoming privy to the issues...and honestly, there isn't a correction that doesn't hurt institutions A LOT (ie cutting complete colleges from the operation).

Not saying this will ever happen or be feasible, state institutions with a close proximity (UT/bgsu or Akron/Kent State) could merge...

Any idea where the savings would be? Some in high Admin (one Pres) but besides the look factor, that's a drop in the bucket of the budget. Looking for comparable relationships, Ohio St - Ohio St Lima is operated by a Dean. We could give BGSU a Dean but what to call them as a facility? University of Toledo Flatlands?

The value and savings is in creating one larger institution or educational consortium (BGSU/UT merge in Northwest Ohio University) and each campus eliminates the dead weight colleges that drain their budgets. Removing competition from the equation, thus allowing the prosperous colleges at each to thrive as they don't need to worry about regional competition. The clear areas here would be UT losing its Colleges of Education and Arts and Letters and BGSU losing its Colleges of Engineering and Health Sciences...even more dramatically, UT and BGSU merging into three campuses, a Liberal Arts campus (BG), a Science and Technology campus (UToledo), and a Health Sciences and Medical campus (UTMC), with the other campuses dropping all but the essential facilities, faculty, and staff. In that situation, every student currently enrolled at the Universities would still have a home, however, each institution would be able to specialize and improve in their own areas, rather than spreading resources far too thin across the entire University. The other 800-lbs gorilla is the Athletics Departments at both which run between $15M-$20M in the red every year while $5M cuts are made to the University operating budget as a whole.

I could easily see the same regional education system coming up quickly in NE Ohio with Cleveland State and Akron having similarly terrible past few years financially and Kent State expanding unsustainably in all areas. Hell our previous governor definitely laid down the foundation for this to happen by running state audits on redundant programs and departments a few years back. That was the first bell, and I could easily see the clock striking midnight here soon, as there is no way the state would want to shutter Universities completely due to the optics, however, developing regional institutions could make the entire educational environment in the state far more competitive nationally by removing competition regionally and allowing Universities to truly focus on what they're good at rather than trying to do everything and doing most of those things average at best.

To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University. If you eliminate those two Colleges, you have a pretty significant net cost savings. Truthfully, the University is only holding onto some programs, departments, and even colleges in order to meet classifications for certain certifications (Carnegie Research Class system, Comprehensive University classification, etc.) which truly have no merit on 99% of the undergrads who attend, which is where a bulk of a Universitiy's revenue resides.

"To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University."

Good portion of that 19% is because faculty (including part time instructors) in Arts & Letters teach the majority of Ohio core requirements and UT general education requirements that EVERY UT undergraduate students most take. Some academic programs/departments in CAL teach 5-10x more undergraduate students than their own majors. Do 16,000 UT undergraduates what to travel down to current BSGU location for those courses if not provided for and staffed on UT main campus?

A full and complete merger between UT and BGSU is not easy nor by simple function a cost saving-plus at the cost of 1,000s of local jobs. However, merging operational and administrative functions, even if just HR, Finance, Facilities, Purchasing etc... is a more likely merger model.
01-14-2020 03:31 PM
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PaulJ Offline
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Post: #25
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 11:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:51 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem

They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?

Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors
01-14-2020 03:51 PM
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PaulJ Offline
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Post: #26
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 02:27 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  There is a reckoning coming, myself and PaulJ have been talking about it for awhile on here. Their numbers are almost exactly the same as our as far as enrollment decreases are concerned...but they all receive quite a bit more in SSI Money from the state of Michigan. More and more people are becoming privy to the issues...and honestly, there isn't a correction that doesn't hurt institutions A LOT (ie cutting complete colleges from the operation).

Not saying this will ever happen or be feasible, state institutions with a close proximity (UT/bgsu or Akron/Kent State) could merge...

Akron is collapsing rapidly, while Kent State (and its regional campus) are growing and have a strong regional and national brand and legacy. That is a much more likely merger opportunity - turn Akron into regional campus of Kent State
01-14-2020 03:53 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #27
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 03:31 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:10 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 02:27 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  There is a reckoning coming, myself and PaulJ have been talking about it for awhile on here. Their numbers are almost exactly the same as our as far as enrollment decreases are concerned...but they all receive quite a bit more in SSI Money from the state of Michigan. More and more people are becoming privy to the issues...and honestly, there isn't a correction that doesn't hurt institutions A LOT (ie cutting complete colleges from the operation).

Not saying this will ever happen or be feasible, state institutions with a close proximity (UT/bgsu or Akron/Kent State) could merge...

Any idea where the savings would be? Some in high Admin (one Pres) but besides the look factor, that's a drop in the bucket of the budget. Looking for comparable relationships, Ohio St - Ohio St Lima is operated by a Dean. We could give BGSU a Dean but what to call them as a facility? University of Toledo Flatlands?

The value and savings is in creating one larger institution or educational consortium (BGSU/UT merge in Northwest Ohio University) and each campus eliminates the dead weight colleges that drain their budgets. Removing competition from the equation, thus allowing the prosperous colleges at each to thrive as they don't need to worry about regional competition. The clear areas here would be UT losing its Colleges of Education and Arts and Letters and BGSU losing its Colleges of Engineering and Health Sciences...even more dramatically, UT and BGSU merging into three campuses, a Liberal Arts campus (BG), a Science and Technology campus (UToledo), and a Health Sciences and Medical campus (UTMC), with the other campuses dropping all but the essential facilities, faculty, and staff. In that situation, every student currently enrolled at the Universities would still have a home, however, each institution would be able to specialize and improve in their own areas, rather than spreading resources far too thin across the entire University. The other 800-lbs gorilla is the Athletics Departments at both which run between $15M-$20M in the red every year while $5M cuts are made to the University operating budget as a whole.

I could easily see the same regional education system coming up quickly in NE Ohio with Cleveland State and Akron having similarly terrible past few years financially and Kent State expanding unsustainably in all areas. Hell our previous governor definitely laid down the foundation for this to happen by running state audits on redundant programs and departments a few years back. That was the first bell, and I could easily see the clock striking midnight here soon, as there is no way the state would want to shutter Universities completely due to the optics, however, developing regional institutions could make the entire educational environment in the state far more competitive nationally by removing competition regionally and allowing Universities to truly focus on what they're good at rather than trying to do everything and doing most of those things average at best.

To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University. If you eliminate those two Colleges, you have a pretty significant net cost savings. Truthfully, the University is only holding onto some programs, departments, and even colleges in order to meet classifications for certain certifications (Carnegie Research Class system, Comprehensive University classification, etc.) which truly have no merit on 99% of the undergrads who attend, which is where a bulk of a Universitiy's revenue resides.

"To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University."

Good portion of that 19% is because faculty (including part time instructors) in Arts & Letters teach the majority of Ohio core requirements and UT general education requirements that EVERY UT undergraduate students most take. Some academic programs/departments in CAL teach 5-10x more undergraduate students than their own majors. Do 16,000 UT undergraduates what to travel down to current BSGU location for those courses if not provided for and staffed on UT main campus?

A full and complete merger between UT and BGSU is not easy nor by simple function a cost saving-plus at the cost of 1,000s of local jobs. However, merging operational and administrative functions, even if just HR, Finance, Facilities, Purchasing etc... is a more likely merger model.

Personally, I've thought for a while that Core Education courses should be taught at the state level digitally since they're a state requirement and not an accreditation agency requirement for most degrees. It would cut costs to the institution tremendously, allow for more breadth of knowledge by offering a much more significant amount of courses to all students, and free up resources tied down by tenured faculty at institutions who don't need near the amount that they have.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 04:39 PM by BearcatMan.)
01-14-2020 04:38 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #28
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 03:51 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:51 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem

They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?

Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors

I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....
01-14-2020 07:54 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #29
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 07:54 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 03:51 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:51 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem

They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?

Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors

I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....

That scenario is already the reality...it hasn't been close in decades.
01-14-2020 09:24 PM
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PaulJ Offline
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Post: #30
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 04:38 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 03:31 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:10 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Not saying this will ever happen or be feasible, state institutions with a close proximity (UT/bgsu or Akron/Kent State) could merge...

Any idea where the savings would be? Some in high Admin (one Pres) but besides the look factor, that's a drop in the bucket of the budget. Looking for comparable relationships, Ohio St - Ohio St Lima is operated by a Dean. We could give BGSU a Dean but what to call them as a facility? University of Toledo Flatlands?

The value and savings is in creating one larger institution or educational consortium (BGSU/UT merge in Northwest Ohio University) and each campus eliminates the dead weight colleges that drain their budgets. Removing competition from the equation, thus allowing the prosperous colleges at each to thrive as they don't need to worry about regional competition. The clear areas here would be UT losing its Colleges of Education and Arts and Letters and BGSU losing its Colleges of Engineering and Health Sciences...even more dramatically, UT and BGSU merging into three campuses, a Liberal Arts campus (BG), a Science and Technology campus (UToledo), and a Health Sciences and Medical campus (UTMC), with the other campuses dropping all but the essential facilities, faculty, and staff. In that situation, every student currently enrolled at the Universities would still have a home, however, each institution would be able to specialize and improve in their own areas, rather than spreading resources far too thin across the entire University. The other 800-lbs gorilla is the Athletics Departments at both which run between $15M-$20M in the red every year while $5M cuts are made to the University operating budget as a whole.

I could easily see the same regional education system coming up quickly in NE Ohio with Cleveland State and Akron having similarly terrible past few years financially and Kent State expanding unsustainably in all areas. Hell our previous governor definitely laid down the foundation for this to happen by running state audits on redundant programs and departments a few years back. That was the first bell, and I could easily see the clock striking midnight here soon, as there is no way the state would want to shutter Universities completely due to the optics, however, developing regional institutions could make the entire educational environment in the state far more competitive nationally by removing competition regionally and allowing Universities to truly focus on what they're good at rather than trying to do everything and doing most of those things average at best.

To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University. If you eliminate those two Colleges, you have a pretty significant net cost savings. Truthfully, the University is only holding onto some programs, departments, and even colleges in order to meet classifications for certain certifications (Carnegie Research Class system, Comprehensive University classification, etc.) which truly have no merit on 99% of the undergrads who attend, which is where a bulk of a Universitiy's revenue resides.

"To exemplify what I'm talking about...roughly 19% of the UT Academic Affairs portion of the University Operating budget is eaten up by the two Colleges I mentioned above. Those two Colleges only house roughly 10% of the undergraduate population of the University."

Good portion of that 19% is because faculty (including part time instructors) in Arts & Letters teach the majority of Ohio core requirements and UT general education requirements that EVERY UT undergraduate students most take. Some academic programs/departments in CAL teach 5-10x more undergraduate students than their own majors. Do 16,000 UT undergraduates what to travel down to current BSGU location for those courses if not provided for and staffed on UT main campus?

A full and complete merger between UT and BGSU is not easy nor by simple function a cost saving-plus at the cost of 1,000s of local jobs. However, merging operational and administrative functions, even if just HR, Finance, Facilities, Purchasing etc... is a more likely merger model.

Personally, I've thought for a while that Core Education courses should be taught at the state level digitally since they're a state requirement and not an accreditation agency requirement for most degrees. It would cut costs to the institution tremendously, allow for more breadth of knowledge by offering a much more significant amount of courses to all students, and free up resources tied down by tenured faculty at institutions who don't need near the amount that they have.

"Personally, I've thought for a while that Core Education courses should be taught at the state level digitally since they're a state requirement and not an accreditation agency requirement for most degrees. It would cut costs to the institution tremendously, allow for more breadth of knowledge by offering a much more significant amount of courses to all students, and free up resources tied down by tenured faculty at institutions who don't need near the amount that they have. "

Online courses are not always the best option for instruction, and interestingly not always preferred by students. Budget and costs need to be address but not at the expense of students and quality of their education-there's already enough of that harm
01-15-2020 03:48 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #31
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-14-2020 09:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 07:54 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 03:51 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 10:51 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  Just read an article that said kids don't want to be teachers. https://www.bridgemi.com/talent-educatio...ts-problem

They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?

Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors

I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....

That scenario is already the reality...it hasn't been close in decades.

lol, ok I shouldn't have used the word "most" because I should have predicted that someone would nickle and dime percents. By "most" I was referring the the scenario that even though NONE would be coming from UT in your merger, that there would still be teachers coming from other local universities.

In your proposal, UT would have little to no exposure. Predictions on how that will affect future enrollment numbers under a system in which UT doesn't have an education Dept?

Any chance you have the data supporting your insinuation that there is a wide disparity between BG and UT educated teachers in the local TPS system? I ask because most I know that work locally have UT and many have both.
01-15-2020 04:55 PM
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DetroitRocket Online
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Post: #32
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-15-2020 04:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 07:54 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 03:51 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 11:12 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  They've been saying that for years. Then they fail Chem 101 and bingo-bango, Science teacher, lol. JUST JOKING teachers.

It's not something I'd panic about. I imagine it's not a salary issue so much as school shootings putting in the scare factor. I cannot imagine any university dropping that program.

Anyone have info on Education enrollment trends at UT or BG?

Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors

I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....

That scenario is already the reality...it hasn't been close in decades.

lol, ok I shouldn't have used the word "most" because I should have predicted that someone would nickle and dime percents. By "most" I was referring the the scenario that even though NONE would be coming from UT in your merger, that there would still be teachers coming from other local universities.

In your proposal, UT would have little to no exposure. Predictions on how that will affect future enrollment numbers under a system in which UT doesn't have an education Dept?

Any chance you have the data supporting your insinuation that there is a wide disparity between BG and UT educated teachers in the local TPS system? I ask because most I know that work locally have UT and many have both.

BG was a teacher's college for much of its existence, so no surprise that they graduate a lot of education majors. Probably not a large percentage of local teachers with Ohio State degrees, but I doubt that discourages local kids from going to Columbus.
01-15-2020 05:52 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #33
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-15-2020 05:52 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 04:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 07:54 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 03:51 PM)PaulJ Wrote:  Statewide has seen drop in total education majors over last decade, BG also declined, UT even more so. Nationwide education majors follow job opportunities, program grow where the local/regional demand is high; where demand is low, majors drop; and demand is driven by population (few teachers are trained and leave state to take job in another state). Ohio population declining=fewer teaching jobs=fewer education majors

I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....

That scenario is already the reality...it hasn't been close in decades.

lol, ok I shouldn't have used the word "most" because I should have predicted that someone would nickle and dime percents. By "most" I was referring the the scenario that even though NONE would be coming from UT in your merger, that there would still be teachers coming from other local universities.

In your proposal, UT would have little to no exposure. Predictions on how that will affect future enrollment numbers under a system in which UT doesn't have an education Dept?

Any chance you have the data supporting your insinuation that there is a wide disparity between BG and UT educated teachers in the local TPS system? I ask because most I know that work locally have UT and many have both.

BG was a teacher's college for much of its existence, so no surprise that they graduate a lot of education majors. Probably not a large percentage of local teachers with Ohio State degrees, but I doubt that discourages local kids from going to Columbus.

Do you think BG, UT and Columbus are really in same conversation for the same students? The careers students take, particularly first generation students are highly influenced by their schools and teachers and counselors. This is where they get their first exposures to the concept and often the goal of college. It's where they get their first descriptive experience. But if anyone UT thinks having those alums in front of those students has no effect on their decision making then go for it.

Heck, Navy, MIT, can't get education degrees there. Works for them, let's try it. Good luck.
01-15-2020 09:38 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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Post: #34
RE: WMU,CMU Face Enrollment Declines
(01-15-2020 09:38 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 05:52 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  
(01-15-2020 04:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 07:54 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  I still say we keep it.

Let's devil's advocate.

The universities merge at BCat supposes. Most of the regional teachers are now coming from BG. Most regional students' first and most frequent exposure to a University is now.... ?

Not feasible. Not sustainable. Not in a region depending upon first generation college students to be the new local white-collar workforce. Now let's talk athletic recruiting under this new scenario....

That scenario is already the reality...it hasn't been close in decades.

lol, ok I shouldn't have used the word "most" because I should have predicted that someone would nickle and dime percents. By "most" I was referring the the scenario that even though NONE would be coming from UT in your merger, that there would still be teachers coming from other local universities.

In your proposal, UT would have little to no exposure. Predictions on how that will affect future enrollment numbers under a system in which UT doesn't have an education Dept?

Any chance you have the data supporting your insinuation that there is a wide disparity between BG and UT educated teachers in the local TPS system? I ask because most I know that work locally have UT and many have both.

BG was a teacher's college for much of its existence, so no surprise that they graduate a lot of education majors. Probably not a large percentage of local teachers with Ohio State degrees, but I doubt that discourages local kids from going to Columbus.

Do you think BG, UT and Columbus are really in same conversation for the same students? The careers students take, particularly first generation students are highly influenced by their schools and teachers and counselors. This is where they get their first exposures to the concept and often the goal of college. It's where they get their first descriptive experience. But if anyone UT thinks having those alums in front of those students has no effect on their decision making then go for it.

Heck, Navy, MIT, can't get education degrees there. Works for them, let's try it. Good luck.

I'm in full agreement there...it's one of the many, many reasons why enrollment at UT continues to decline with BGSU posts gains. But at the end of the day, you've got to compare the cost of losing 1/5 teachers a student may have in front of them being a UT grad vs. the economics of the move within the College itself.

I do have an honest question for you though...do you believe UT should be a comprehensive institution based on its standing as a University, its size, and its prolonged budgetary constraints? Depending on that answer, where would your cuts be if no, and if yes, why?
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2020 09:37 AM by BearcatMan.)
01-16-2020 09:34 AM
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