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Poll: Which OOC rivalry would Oklahoma keep if they joined the Big Ten?
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Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-13-2020 05:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:48 PM)Realigned Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:09 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  [quote='BePcr07' pid='16608095' dateline='1578945325']
The PAC really flubbed by not taking Oklahoma and Oklahoma St when they had the chance. That would’ve really given them some leverage.

What chance did they have? To take just those two? Or to take them with others? Just those two schools by themselves don't do much to solve any of the PAC's problems. I don't really recall any scenario in which the PAC goes to 14 with those two, or to 12 without Colorado and Utah.

I believe it was to go to 14 with the Oklahoma schools. I don't have an article ready to share but if someone could provide a link, I'm confident it was almost a thing. I wasn't saying the Oklahoma schools by themselves added much but it would've provided some leverage. Even if Texas was not in play, adding - perhaps - Kansas St and Texas Tech would've be tolerable with Oklahoma.

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
South: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado
East: Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas St

The Pac 12 considered and rejected adding the Oklahoma schools.

/https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/hotline-newsletter-in-an-alternate-universe-its-the-pac-14-future-bowl-options-hello-hollywood-park-herberts-return-and-more/

The way I read that article, it's little more than the kind of "what if" fantasy speculation that is pervasive on sites like this one. Somebody floated a trial balloon, and it got shot down quickly.

The PAC appears to have understood that there wasn't anything in it for them. In all likelihood, OU and OK State probably realized there was nothing in it for them, either. This would not have been a "win-win". It would have been a "lose-lose", which is why it went nowhere. To say that the PAC had a chance to get those two schools suggests that the schools would have considered it - maybe even wanted it. I doubt that was the case.

President Boren from OU was was very vocally courting the PAC 12 and pushing for just the two Oklahoma schools at one point (don't remember the date) when OU was particularly fed up with UT. I don't think it got any traction with the PAC 12 due to a combo of Larry Scott's inept leadership and the PAC 12 members' reasonable desire to include the State of Texas in any further expansion.

I don't see how Bedlam could be preserved in both OU and UT went to the B1G without OU agreeing to only play 6 home games in years they played the Pokes in Stillwater, which wouldn't happen. Maybe if the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 09:14 AM by CarlSmithCenter.)
01-14-2020 09:07 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-14-2020 09:07 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  I don't see how Bedlam could be preserved in both OU and UT went to the B1G without OU agreeing to only play 6 home games in years they played the Pokes in Stillwater, which wouldn't happen. Maybe if the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game.

They could set it up as home in Norman on years they played 4 B1G games and in Stillwater on years they play 5 B1G games. But you are correct they would never be able to schedule a home and home with say USC or Florida State. Also the B1G would force Bedlam to be played in September, which would have the same negative effect on the game that BYU-Utah moving to the start of the season due to P12 scheduling requirements has had (basically took all the energy out of one of the great rivalries)

This is where the SEC is more attractive than the B1G to Oklahoma. With only 8 games and a schedule pattern where traditional late season games, even against non-conference foes around thanksgiving, would make things work far better for Oklahoma should they move. The only onus to keep the game going would shift to Oklahoma State and B12 agreeing to allow a November date.

I do think conferences, such as the B1G should allow these late season games. The Pac-12 only make the exception for Notre Dame (Stanford and USC), but frankly they should extend that to Utah for BYU, and the B12 and B1G should allow that as well; there was no need for the B12 and KU to not play Missouri in November. Maybe with relaxed rules, not requiring round robin for a conference CCG, that could change.

Note, if OU and Texas go separate ways, then OU is back to the same dilemma about which rivalry do they keep. A move to teh B1G would likely kill both. But I think from a recruiting and fan following standpoint Texas is the more critical, to keep OU firmly in the DFW market.
01-17-2020 03:05 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #23
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
I’m fine with end of the season OOC rivalry games so long as it’s ran through the conference office and someone else also agrees to make a similar move so that no one gets stuck without a rivalry game.

ex. Oklahoma and Kansas could both join the Big Ten and both keep their instate rivalry games at the end of the season and nothing gets disrupted.

I always disliked the way in accommodating ND, one of the PAC 12 schools gets left either without a game in the final week or playing an odd OOC game. This sort of thing should only be approved in pairs for conferences with even numbers of members.
01-17-2020 03:12 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-14-2020 09:07 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 05:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:48 PM)Realigned Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:09 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  [quote='BePcr07' pid='16608095' dateline='1578945325']
The PAC really flubbed by not taking Oklahoma and Oklahoma St when they had the chance. That would’ve really given them some leverage.

What chance did they have? To take just those two? Or to take them with others? Just those two schools by themselves don't do much to solve any of the PAC's problems. I don't really recall any scenario in which the PAC goes to 14 with those two, or to 12 without Colorado and Utah.

I believe it was to go to 14 with the Oklahoma schools. I don't have an article ready to share but if someone could provide a link, I'm confident it was almost a thing. I wasn't saying the Oklahoma schools by themselves added much but it would've provided some leverage. Even if Texas was not in play, adding - perhaps - Kansas St and Texas Tech would've be tolerable with Oklahoma.

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
South: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado
East: Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas St

The Pac 12 considered and rejected adding the Oklahoma schools.

/https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/hotline-newsletter-in-an-alternate-universe-its-the-pac-14-future-bowl-options-hello-hollywood-park-herberts-return-and-more/

The way I read that article, it's little more than the kind of "what if" fantasy speculation that is pervasive on sites like this one. Somebody floated a trial balloon, and it got shot down quickly.

The PAC appears to have understood that there wasn't anything in it for them. In all likelihood, OU and OK State probably realized there was nothing in it for them, either. This would not have been a "win-win". It would have been a "lose-lose", which is why it went nowhere. To say that the PAC had a chance to get those two schools suggests that the schools would have considered it - maybe even wanted it. I doubt that was the case.

President Boren from OU was was very vocally courting the PAC 12 and pushing for just the two Oklahoma schools at one point (don't remember the date) when OU was particularly fed up with UT. I don't think it got any traction with the PAC 12 due to a combo of Larry Scott's inept leadership and the PAC 12 members' reasonable desire to include the State of Texas in any further expansion.

I don't see how Bedlam could be preserved in both OU and UT went to the B1G without OU agreeing to only play 6 home games in years they played the Pokes in Stillwater, which wouldn't happen. Maybe if the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game.

The Hawaii Rule exists in that Hawaii and every school that plays at Hawaii can add an additional home game, if they choose, for a total of 13 regular season home games. Obviously 130+ schools can't play at Hawaii in a given season. But what if there was another way to get a 13th game? Here are a couple options off the top of my head that the 13th game rule could be extended to:

1) Play AT an FCS opponent's home field
2) Play a non-neutral site OOC game at least 2 time zones away
3) Schedule at least 3 power school OOC opponents with at least 1 true road game

Are these viable options? Any other ideas?
01-17-2020 04:06 PM
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ColumbusCard Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-17-2020 03:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:07 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  I don't see how Bedlam could be preserved in both OU and UT went to the B1G without OU agreeing to only play 6 home games in years they played the Pokes in Stillwater, which wouldn't happen. Maybe if the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game.

They could set it up as home in Norman on years they played 4 B1G games and in Stillwater on years they play 5 B1G games. But you are correct they would never be able to schedule a home and home with say USC or Florida State. Also the B1G would force Bedlam to be played in September, which would have the same negative effect on the game that BYU-Utah moving to the start of the season due to P12 scheduling requirements has had (basically took all the energy out of one of the great rivalries)

This is where the SEC is more attractive than the B1G to Oklahoma. With only 8 games and a schedule pattern where traditional late season games, even against non-conference foes around thanksgiving, would make things work far better for Oklahoma should they move. The only onus to keep the game going would shift to Oklahoma State and B12 agreeing to allow a November date.

I do think conferences, such as the B1G should allow these late season games. The Pac-12 only make the exception for Notre Dame (Stanford and USC), but frankly they should extend that to Utah for BYU, and the B12 and B1G should allow that as well; there was no need for the B12 and KU to not play Missouri in November. Maybe with relaxed rules, not requiring round robin for a conference CCG, that could change.

Note, if OU and Texas go separate ways, then OU is back to the same dilemma about which rivalry do they keep. A move to teh B1G would likely kill both. But I think from a recruiting and fan following standpoint Texas is the more critical, to keep OU firmly in the DFW market.
Im not so sure moving the date of the OU-OSU game would have that negative of an impact. It isnt locked into the last week of the season like other rivalries, and season opening rivalries still generate a lot of heat. I wish UK-UL was still the season opener
01-17-2020 04:25 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
I do believe the Pac-12 is looking at relaxing its late-season schedule and allowing more OOC games in November (not just ND and the reciprocal BYU games).
01-17-2020 04:45 PM
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texoma Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-17-2020 04:25 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 03:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:07 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  I don't see how Bedlam could be preserved in both OU and UT went to the B1G without OU agreeing to only play 6 home games in years they played the Pokes in Stillwater, which wouldn't happen. Maybe if the NCAA allows a 13th regular season game.

They could set it up as home in Norman on years they played 4 B1G games and in Stillwater on years they play 5 B1G games. But you are correct they would never be able to schedule a home and home with say USC or Florida State. Also the B1G would force Bedlam to be played in September, which would have the same negative effect on the game that BYU-Utah moving to the start of the season due to P12 scheduling requirements has had (basically took all the energy out of one of the great rivalries)

This is where the SEC is more attractive than the B1G to Oklahoma. With only 8 games and a schedule pattern where traditional late season games, even against non-conference foes around thanksgiving, would make things work far better for Oklahoma should they move. The only onus to keep the game going would shift to Oklahoma State and B12 agreeing to allow a November date.

I do think conferences, such as the B1G should allow these late season games. The Pac-12 only make the exception for Notre Dame (Stanford and USC), but frankly they should extend that to Utah for BYU, and the B12 and B1G should allow that as well; there was no need for the B12 and KU to not play Missouri in November. Maybe with relaxed rules, not requiring round robin for a conference CCG, that could change.

Note, if OU and Texas go separate ways, then OU is back to the same dilemma about which rivalry do they keep. A move to teh B1G would likely kill both. But I think from a recruiting and fan following standpoint Texas is the more critical, to keep OU firmly in the DFW market.
Im not so sure moving the date of the OU-OSU game would have that negative of an impact. It isnt locked into the last week of the season like other rivalries, and season opening rivalries still generate a lot of heat. I wish UK-UL was still the season opener

Correct....they have played their games in September and October over the years. The game this year is in October.

PS- they would keep both rivalry games with out a doubt. They currently play one intersectional game home and home each year. Out of division crossover games with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin etc would replace those games.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 04:59 PM by texoma.)
01-17-2020 04:45 PM
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RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-13-2020 05:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think they'd be obligated to keep both. OU would probably insist on reducing the number of conference games if moving to the Big Ten without UT or to the Pac without both OSU and UT.

To add to this, if the Big Ten were to pick up OU/KU and drop back to 8 conference games, they actually would slightly increase the total number of intraconference games (63 to 64). Oklahoma has 4 OOC games to play OSU, UT, and 2 G5/FCS bodybag games.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 06:00 PM by Nerdlinger.)
01-17-2020 05:58 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-17-2020 05:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 05:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think they'd be obligated to keep both. OU would probably insist on reducing the number of conference games if moving to the Big Ten without UT or to the Pac without both OSU and UT.

To add to this, if the Big Ten were to pick up OU/KU and drop back to 8 conference games, they actually would slightly increase the total number of intraconference games (63 to 64). Oklahoma has 4 OOC games to play OSU, UT, and 2 G5/FCS bodybag games.

Big Ten wont go to 8. They actually seriously have discussed going to 10, since the games fans most care about are against B1G opponents.
01-17-2020 09:14 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-17-2020 09:14 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 05:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 05:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think they'd be obligated to keep both. OU would probably insist on reducing the number of conference games if moving to the Big Ten without UT or to the Pac without both OSU and UT.

To add to this, if the Big Ten were to pick up OU/KU and drop back to 8 conference games, they actually would slightly increase the total number of intraconference games (63 to 64). Oklahoma has 4 OOC games to play OSU, UT, and 2 G5/FCS bodybag games.

Big Ten wont go to 8. They actually seriously have discussed going to 10, since the games fans most care about are against B1G opponents.

That will work best when we have a P4 and it's a champs only CFP. And anticipation of that is the best reason to be discussing 10. Otherwise the Big 10 would be shooting itself in the foot potentially, as would the SEC, to ponder such a move.

Make it a P4 and even the SEC would see the benefit in moving to 10 conference games because our fans would rather see conference games as well.

I just find the mere fact that moving to 10 conference games within the Big 10 was even discussed to be revealing.
01-17-2020 10:15 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-17-2020 09:14 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 05:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 05:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think they'd be obligated to keep both. OU would probably insist on reducing the number of conference games if moving to the Big Ten without UT or to the Pac without both OSU and UT.

To add to this, if the Big Ten were to pick up OU/KU and drop back to 8 conference games, they actually would slightly increase the total number of intraconference games (63 to 64). Oklahoma has 4 OOC games to play OSU, UT, and 2 G5/FCS bodybag games.

Big Ten wont go to 8. They actually seriously have discussed going to 10, since the games fans most care about are against B1G opponents.
Scheduling a bunch of FCS and MAC teams tends to lead to that. Still, the football culture there's weird. They view the Rose Bowl as just as important as the natty for some reason.
01-18-2020 12:30 PM
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johnintx Online
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Post: #32
RE: Which rival would Oklahoma keep?
(01-18-2020 12:30 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 09:14 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 05:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 05:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think they'd be obligated to keep both. OU would probably insist on reducing the number of conference games if moving to the Big Ten without UT or to the Pac without both OSU and UT.

To add to this, if the Big Ten were to pick up OU/KU and drop back to 8 conference games, they actually would slightly increase the total number of intraconference games (63 to 64). Oklahoma has 4 OOC games to play OSU, UT, and 2 G5/FCS bodybag games.

Big Ten wont go to 8. They actually seriously have discussed going to 10, since the games fans most care about are against B1G opponents.
Scheduling a bunch of FCS and MAC teams tends to lead to that. Still, the football culture there's weird. They view the Rose Bowl as just as important as the natty for some reason.

Interesting observation coming from the annex to Big Ten country, as that is what I have seen from a distance, as well. Ohio State would be the exception, as they definitely shoot for national championships, and have higher aspirations than the Rose Bowl. Michigan would fall in this category, as well, but they haven't come close in quite a while. This is probably a result of their history: 1) being the last conference to allow multiple teams to go to bowl games, and 2) the dominance of Ohio State and Michigan over so much of their history. When a B1G team other than Ohio State or Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl, it's still a Really Big Deal. Wisconsin has made a habit of going to the Rose Bowl in the last 20 years, and it's still a big deal to them.

As for Oklahoma, this part of B1G culture would be a drawback for the fans. There is a tale going around Oklahoma message boards (I can't document it, and I don't think it's true. I Googled it, and it didn't appear) that when OU played Washington State in the Rose Bowl after the 2002 season, Keith Jackson mentioned somewhere that Oklahoma "soiled the floor of the Rose Bowl" with their presence. He probably was considering OU as an outsider, not being in the B1G or Pac. Keith always respected the OU program, and even made the effort to call one last OU-Texas game and one last OU-OSU game before finally retiring. OU has appeared in it a couple of times, but the Rose Bowl is not part of the Oklahoma tradition.

As to the original question: OU will play Texas, no matter the conference, even if it is the only game on the schedule. The rivalry is that valuable to the football program and to the school. The school's entire identity is built around the OU-Texas game. School is canceled the Monday after the game when OU wins. I cannot over-emphasize the importance of that game to the university and state.
01-18-2020 07:13 PM
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