As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first
Then basketball or a combo of both that is pretty good.
A strong program in lesser sports would count less than the top two sports.
So considering only the last fifteen years since joining D1.
Eight FCS national titles and two tournaments wins.

I would put Gonzaga and UCF ahead of them .
Boise St for Football 6 WAC titles 4 MWC 8-7 in bowls would be better.
SDSU 3 MWC football titles 8 NCAA appearances probably give it to NDSU.

Probably top thirty for a below P6 program pretty good.

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

#33 is very accurate. Summit is perfect for them non-FB. They deserve a FB-only FBS invite and would make FBS more compelling.

#131, every season.

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

The opportunity to move up is there. Their refusal says a lot. They now have no competition in FCS since App State left.

(01-12-2020 06:20 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

The opportunity to move up is there. Their refusal says a lot. They now have no competition in FCS since App State And Georgia Southern left.

FIFY. Not sure when the last time App played NDSU. Georgia Southern played them in the semifinals of 2011 and 2012. Both highly exciting games. 2012 was the de facto championship game (GS lost). They rolled in the final.

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

Yeah I probably worded that funny .
FCS title would beat out almost any non Access Bowl G5 season .
Not that they could beat the rest just National title vs mediocre bowl.
P5 are major so don't count .
Gonzaga no football but great consistent play at the second category.

(01-12-2020 08:24 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

Yeah I probably worded that funny .
FCS title would beat out almost any non Access Bowl G5 season .
Not that they could beat the rest just National title vs mediocre bowl.
P5 are major so don't count .
Gonzaga no football but great consistent play at the second category.

I'd love to see how this year's App State team would do vs. NDSU. Yeah, App lost by 3 to Ga. Southern, but it was probably the best team App has had.

Would love to see what NDSU could do in the MAC or MWC

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first
Then basketball or a combo of both that is pretty good.
A strong program in lesser sports would count less than the top two sports.
So considering only the last fifteen years since joining D1.
Eight FCS national titles and two tournaments wins.

I would put Gonzaga and UCF ahead of them .
Boise St for Football 6 WAC titles 4 MWC 8-7 in bowls would be better.
SDSU 3 MWC football titles 8 NCAA appearances probably give it to NDSU.

Probably top thirty for a below P6 program pretty good.

Are you talking about NDSU as an entire athletic program? I think you are because you included Gonzaga....

KenPom basketball rankings for NDSU
2020 - 148 (through 1/13)
2019 - 202
2018 - 176
2017 - 167
2016 - 145
2015 - 152
2014 - 61
2013 - 75
2012 - 163
2011 - 162

That puts them way behind every Big East team and most of the American.

It puts them in the basement among A-10 and MVC programs over the past decade.

When it comes to footballl, NDSU has a great FCS football program. They've got arguably a top-30 team in 2019, but don't confuse that with a "top-30 program."

NDSU has lost 2 head coaches in the last 6 years. To Wyoming and Kansas State. No one thinks those are top-40 programs.

With 5 current NFL players, NDSU is in a 13-way tie for 98th (according to profootballreference). That's actually fewer than Illinois State (6), James Madison (6), Eastern Washington (7), Delaware (8), and Harvard (9).

Even UCF is not a top-30 program. They've only been ranked in the preseason AP poll twice.

Building a program takes decades. NDSU was a D-2 school until 2003. It's possible that NDSU might be able to repeat Boise's and UCF's success and continue to rise, but NDSU is about 20 years behind those programs.

(01-12-2020 11:53 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Would love to see what NDSU could do in the MAC or MWC

Hard to tell. People like to extrapolate their yearly FBS win over the course of a 12-game season but it's not that simple.

If they took the roster they started the season with and played 11 FBS games, they'd probably start off OK, but eventually attrition/lack of depth kicks in and they're dragging the rest of the way. They'd be a much better team at the start of the year than at the end.

Of course, if we don't just drop them in as-is from on high and let them recruit up to the FBS scholarship limit, that changes things, but also makes it harder to determine how well they'd do. Of the recent moveups, only Appalachian State has avoided the transition struggles the rest have dealt/are dealing with.

(01-12-2020 06:20 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

The opportunity to move up is there. Their refusal says a lot. They now have no competition in FCS since App State left.

Please tell us more about this opportunity you speak of and when we refused it.

(01-12-2020 11:53 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Would love to see what NDSU could do in the MAC or MWC

I doubt they would ever get the chance. The Mountain West is only interested in getting into Texas. Not a lot of recruiting ground in the extremely small market icy plains.

The MAC is already pretty compact. I don't think that expanding the footprint is one of their top priorities.

Outside of a major armageddon like shake up, the only FBS route I see for NDSU is the famous Great North plan that may never come to fruition.

(01-13-2020 01:35 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When it comes to footballl, NDSU has a great FCS football program. They've got arguably a top-30 team in 2019, but don't confuse that with a "top-30 program."

NDSU has lost 2 head coaches in the last 6 years. To Wyoming and Kansas State. No one thinks those are top-40 programs.

With 5 current NFL players, NDSU is in a 13-way tie for 98th (according to profootballreference). That's actually fewer than Illinois State (6), James Madison (6), Eastern Washington (7), Delaware (8), and Harvard (9).

Even UCF is not a top-30 program. They've only been ranked in the preseason AP poll twice.

Building a program takes decades. NDSU was a D-2 school until 2003. It's possible that NDSU might be able to repeat Boise's and UCF's success and continue to rise, but NDSU is about 20 years behind those programs.

The actual top thirty would be P5 programs .
Cincinnati would be top thirty mid major I would think good not great at the top two sports.

(01-12-2020 06:20 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

The opportunity to move up is there. Their refusal says a lot. They now have no competition in FCS since App State left.

FWIW NDSU’s main playoff contender back before the last wave of realignment was Georgia Southern. App and GS moved up at the same time, 9 FCS titles between the two. After we both left, the only competition NDSU really faced was JMU.

It would be neat to have NDSU in the MAC as I think they would shake things up but geographically they don't fit so I'm sure I'm in the minority of MAC fans on that.

I would put them as one of the top G5 teams, and better than the lower P5 teams. Hard to say, other than that. I don't know who they lose this year but that QB was only a freshman so they have a lot of potential to maintain the dominance in FCS.

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

I think NDSU would be higher than that, maybe somewhere in the 20s. Sagarin sometimes produces bizarre results; it gives teams too much credit for losing to really good teams, while somehow also not giving enough weight to head to head results.

(01-13-2020 01:56 PM)BisonCardinal Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 06:20 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 12:30 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  As an athletic program among mid major programs .
FBS success is first

Well ND State has no FBS success per se, just a whale of a lot of FCS success.

IIRC, in the past 9 years they are 5-0 vs FBS teams, including a win over 8-5 Iowa (lost the Gator Bowl) in 2016 and 8-5 Kansas State (won the Wild Wings Bowl over Michigan) in 2013. And 2016 is the year they didn't win the FCS title.

Sagarin has ND State at #33 right now. That's probably about right. They could likely beat most G5 teams and many P5 teams.

The opportunity to move up is there. Their refusal says a lot. They now have no competition in FCS since App State left.

Please tell us more about this opportunity you speak of and when we refused it.

I love it when someone says NDSU need to move up and the fact they haven't... There is no place for NDSU to go. The MAC is too far away and no one in the MAC want a new school to be kicking their axx week in and week out. The MWC will never invite an FCS team and really, NDSU is a long way from Laramie Wyoming, the closest MWC school to Fargo. Geography (and those pesky other sports) will keep NDSU in FCS unless the NCAA structure implodes.

I was thinking something like those mid major basketball polls.
Mid major poll for overall athletic program .
The top twenty outside the power six basketball conferences.
Except adding in FBS/FCS football accomplishments over the last 15 years.
Eight FCS titles and two tourney wins would be their accomplishments.
Minnesota - Duluth if they were D1 in all sports and had 5-6 ncaa tourney appearances might be top thirty for example.

Kind of a random question I know .
FCS title less prestigious than a sweet 16 or Access Bowl for sure.
Still two tourney wins and 8 FCS titles is probably more impressive than anything any MAC/ CUSA/ SBC school has achieved the last fifteen years.