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Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-05-2020 10:30 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-05-2020 04:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 11:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 10:08 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-04-2020 08:43 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  It may just be me but I think a conference with a footprint like this is a large enough one for a D1 conference.

Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Cincinnati
Indianapolis
Chicago

Why does the MAC have to expand out of the Great Lakes?

What the MAC needs is to step up to an MWC type TV deal and get out of the Midweek games.

Exactly! Why can't an Eastern/Central conference with schools overshadowed by multiple P5s just go and get the same kind of deal as a conference with flagship and only-game-in-town schools that play in the Mountain and Pacific where college football content is much scarcer?

This flagship stuff doesn't matter. If it did the Big Sky and Summit conferences would have much better TV deals. They are flagships of rural states.

The MAC has endowments that are comparable to the MWC and both are overflow for their respective P5 conferences (B1G and PAC) in their distinct regions.

They play each other in 2 bowl games. TV deals are all about football. MAC upgraded its bowls for 2020-2025 so why can't the TV deal be next?

Not at all alike:
One side of the country:Big10,Big12,SEC,ACC,AAC,SB, CUSA,MAC (8)
Other side of the country: PAC & MWC (2)

West: PAC, MWC
Great Lakes: B1G, MAC
South: XII, SEC, AAC, ACC, CUSA, SBC
East Coast: B1G, ACC, AAC, CUSA

Ohio and Alabama are not in the same region just because they are both in the eastern half of the United States.

The number of conferences in a region doesn't directly reflect the crowding. The East Coast is still under populated with FBS programs relative to its population.

Its the power balance which is what makes PAC/MWC different than B1G/MAC. Back in the old WAC days prior to the 16 team expansion the PAC and WAC were often comparable in strength. The gap between the PAC and the other western conference has grown significantly with Utah flipping to the PAC and BYU leaving the MWC. The gap between the B1G and MAC is historically huge.

Just to get this straight I'm not saying the MAC will get MWC money at the next negotiation but that its the upper range of what is possible and should be the goal. Surely the MAC will not be able to score the TV exposure of the AAC. If the AAC and MWC both upgraded slots and increased TV dollars by 300% could the MAC?

Of course we know the AAC has been the most competitive G5 conference and deserved a better deal. But what did the MWC do? They did no more than the MAC in football as both placed 1 school in an access bowl. They just went out and negotiated a better deal.

Don’t be glib.
I’m talking about time zones
MAC is amongst 8 of the 10 conferences that share the Eastern & Central
MWC has the MTZ to its self and shared Pacific with 1 conference the PAC
02-06-2020 11:07 AM
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Illini60940 Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

You don't think adding the "State" school from a large state like Illinois would improve the MAC? Or adding UNI? Stony Brook? My opinion. all 3 are more attractive than several MAC schools.

The 3 you mentioned have no desire to join the MAC, if they are going to grow their product they will need to look in other directions.
02-06-2020 11:13 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 11:13 AM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

You don't think adding the "State" school from a large state like Illinois would improve the MAC? Or adding UNI? Stony Brook? My opinion. all 3 are more attractive than several MAC schools.

The 3 you mentioned have no desire to join the MAC, if they are going to grow their product they will need to look in other directions.

Not UNI. They're only <6 hours of 1/12 MAC schools and they're not even located in the population center of a small state (Cedar Falls is 2 hours from Des Moines).

Stony Brook is 8 hours from the nearest MAC school. That's a non-starter for all sports, no matter how good they look institutionally/NYC market.

Illinois State would appeal geographically and institutionally. They would definitely be in the hunt. The issue there is ISU is very much a basketball school. They can't fund an IPF. Their football support/facilities/budget would be average at best in the MAC and when you have 12 members as a mid-major league, you don't expand beyond that unless you're adding schools who would be top of the mountain in your flagship sport (Marshall, JMU, NDSU).
02-06-2020 11:22 AM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
I would enjoy a conference basketball tournament I could drive to in Cleveland.
02-06-2020 11:38 AM
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Illini60940 Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 11:22 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:13 AM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

You don't think adding the "State" school from a large state like Illinois would improve the MAC? Or adding UNI? Stony Brook? My opinion. all 3 are more attractive than several MAC schools.

The 3 you mentioned have no desire to join the MAC, if they are going to grow their product they will need to look in other directions.

Not UNI. They're only <6 hours of 1/12 MAC schools and they're not even located in the population center of a small state (Cedar Falls is 2 hours from Des Moines).

Stony Brook is 8 hours from the nearest MAC school. That's a non-starter for all sports, no matter how good they look institutionally/NYC market.

Illinois State would appeal geographically and institutionally. They would definitely be in the hunt. The issue there is ISU is very much a basketball school. They can't fund an IPF. Their football support/facilities/budget would be average at best in the MAC and when you have 12 members as a mid-major league, you don't expand beyond that unless you're adding schools who would be top of the mountain in your flagship sport (Marshall, JMU, NDSU).

If you are going to allow a school like ISU into your conference, you are banking on their potential. I think that is what makes them attractive is their current uptrend while other midwestern schools are declining. I read somewhere their current fundraising effort passed the $150M level a year early, so if they want to be serious about an IPF, it will get built. I know a lot of the Illini nation looks down on them, but they are doing things the right way over there, especially when compared to other state schools here in Illinois.

I am not as familiar with UNI, but they seem to get good support and have good programs, and good academics.
02-06-2020 12:46 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

The only FCS I would consider is Villanova. Adjacent state for the footprint and large Philly market.

Considering UConn is a slice of the NYC market both Villanova and Uconn are the best additions.

I would do it for AAC money and a scheduling agreement in Olympic sports.
02-06-2020 06:24 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 11:07 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  MWC has the MTZ to its self and shared Pacific with 1 conference the PAC

I believe you are forgetting the two Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah in the Pac-12.
02-07-2020 02:20 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-07-2020 02:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:07 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  MWC has the MTZ to its self and shared Pacific with 1 conference the PAC

I believe you are forgetting the two Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah in the Pac-12.

Which is a lot of P5's in the MTZ region considering the population/recruiting base.

Plus BYU a 5th important school which is not in the MWC anymore.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2020 07:24 AM by Kit-Cat.)
02-07-2020 07:22 AM
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Illini60940 Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-06-2020 06:24 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

The only FCS I would consider is Villanova. Adjacent state for the footprint and large Philly market.

Considering UConn is a slice of the NYC market both Villanova and Uconn are the best additions.

I would do it for AAC money and a scheduling agreement in Olympic sports.

I am sure Villanova and UConn are dying to get into the MAC. The MAC is a low tier FBS conference, probably the lowest ranked, the only way they are going to add members is to take FCS schools like UNI, ISU, Stony Brook etc.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2020 09:08 AM by Illini60940.)
02-07-2020 09:06 AM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-07-2020 07:22 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 02:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:07 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  MWC has the MTZ to its self and shared Pacific with 1 conference the PAC

I believe you are forgetting the two Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah in the Pac-12.

Which is a lot of P5's in the MTZ region considering the population/recruiting base.

Plus BYU a 5th important school which is not in the MWC anymore.

C-USA has UTEP.
02-07-2020 10:37 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-07-2020 09:06 AM)Illini60940 Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 06:24 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:03 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  There are 3 schools who improve the league aggregate:
- Marshall
- JMU
- NDSU (FB-only)

The MVC schools have a good basketball fan base. They don't improve the league in football success, football fan support, or football budget. That's what the MAC cares about. They are basketball-first schools who are in a league better suited for their goals.

The only FCS I would consider is Villanova. Adjacent state for the footprint and large Philly market.

Considering UConn is a slice of the NYC market both Villanova and Uconn are the best additions.

I would do it for AAC money and a scheduling agreement in Olympic sports.

I am sure Villanova and UConn are dying to get into the MAC. The MAC is a low tier FBS conference, probably the lowest ranked, the only way they are going to add members is to take FCS schools like UNI, ISU, Stony Brook etc.

"The MAC is a low tier FBS conference" -Sure that is a fair statement.

"Probably the lowest ranked" -Probably another fair statement.

So then why would Nova and UConn want to join the MAC in FB?

1) For the ESPN money. They can double dip on TV money between the Big East and MAC. Moving forward they are getting zilch.

2) To compete in a FBS conference that doesn't spend 10 million on a FB staff. It is much cheaper to field a MAC FB team than to have one in the AAC.

3) It is easier to compete in the MAC. UConn and Nova would have some advantages with a different recruiting area and could build bowl level programs. Temple has done it before.

4) At least in Nova's case by moving up it gives them a long term shot at the ACC since they have FBS football.

As I said above joining the MAC worked for Temple so it could work for Temple. It didn't really work for UMass but UConn is a stronger athletic brand.

With the other names UNI, JMU, NDSU they don't have big athletic brands. They are only big on this board because we are CFB insiders. ESPN thinks household names.
02-07-2020 11:39 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-07-2020 10:37 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 07:22 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 02:20 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(02-06-2020 11:07 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  MWC has the MTZ to its self and shared Pacific with 1 conference the PAC

I believe you are forgetting the two Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah in the Pac-12.

Which is a lot of P5's in the MTZ region considering the population/recruiting base.

Plus BYU a 5th important school which is not in the MWC anymore.

C-USA has UTEP.

Which is a complete recruiting non-factor.
02-08-2020 01:04 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double ...
(02-07-2020 09:06 AM)Illini60940 Wrote:  I am sure Villanova and UConn are dying to get into the MAC. The MAC is a low tier FBS conference, probably the lowest ranked, ...

This season we were in FB. But then over the past five years we've also been third and flirting with 2nd, so while "low tier" FBS conference, alongside CUSA and the SBC is certainly true, the "probably" last place is iffy.

And of course never the 5th best in basketball, thanks to the SBC, but not good enough to break out of the same tier as CUSA.

Quote: ... the only way they are going to add members is to take FCS schools like UNI, ISU, Stony Brook etc.

... uhhh, "etc." there includes Villanova. It's an FCS school. Moving up into the MAC would be an upgrade of it's football.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 05:13 AM by BruceMcF.)
02-08-2020 05:10 AM
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Post: #114
RE: Why doesn't Marshall return to the MAC & reduce travel & more than double their tv $?
The MAC is pretty clearly better than the Sun Belt. The MAC has actually got a team in a Big Six Bowl (WMU), and another team (Northern Illinois) in a BCS bowl.

This year’s App State team was the first ever Sun Belt team to finish ranked in the top 25. And they were also the first ever Sun Belt team to even be ranked in the top 20 in a mid season poll.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 03:57 PM by Poster.)
02-08-2020 03:54 PM
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