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B1G scheduling philosophy
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ken d Online
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B1G scheduling philosophy
Looking at next year's schedules, I notice that 7 B1G schools have an FCS game on their schedule. That's how many they played in the last two years combined. Did they quietly back off their "no FCS" policy?

Five of those schools are in the presumably weaker West division - Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Nebraska. Could that be an attempt to beef up the W-L records of potential CCG opponents for Ohio State to enhance their CFP chances should they have a regular season loss?
01-11-2020 08:34 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
Yes, they backed off


ETA: Sorry, don't have a link, but I recall reading that some schools were having trouble scheduling their desired total number of home games when they had only 4 scheduled home conference games... So the conference backed off.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2020 09:01 AM by chester.)
01-11-2020 08:43 AM
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Crayton Online
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.
01-11-2020 09:03 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Looking deeper with that in mind, all five of the western teams have only four conference home games in 2020. Maryland and Rutgers have five, but maybe the league is taking pity on them until they're more competitive.
01-11-2020 09:19 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
Northwestern scheduled a game against...Morgan State. What a waste of everyone’s time. At least Illinois hosting Illinois State has a hook to it and ISU has the potential to make a game of it (beat 7-6 Northwestern in 2016).
01-11-2020 09:23 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:19 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Looking deeper with that in mind, all five of the western teams have only four conference home games in 2020. Maryland and Rutgers have five, but maybe the league is taking pity on them until they're more competitive.

Side note: All seven B1G West teams always have 5 home conference games in even years and all seven B1G East teams always have 5 home conference games in odd years.

Folks who are for divisions in the SEC, ACC & C-USA, but are against an odd number of conference games because of "unbalanced home/away" should keep this in mind. It's a non-factor regarding conferences that have an odd number of teams per division.

EDIT: whoops! make that 5 conference home games for West teams in odd years and 5 for East teams in even ones. (Y'all get the picture. All 14 B1G teams always have the exact same no. of conference home and away games as the other teams in their division, either 4 & 5 or 5 & 4.)
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2020 10:10 AM by chester.)
01-11-2020 09:40 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

I think you also had some schools who had some pressure from their respective state houses to play intrastate games. Iowa with UNI comes to mind.
01-11-2020 10:39 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
Personally, I think having the entire division play either 4 or 5 home games in alternating years is the best way to solve the 9 conference games issue. Within the division no on has an advantage because they all have the same number of home games.
01-11-2020 03:20 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:40 AM)chester Wrote:  Folks who are for divisions in the SEC, ACC & C-USA, but are against an odd number of conference games because of "unbalanced home/away" should keep this in mind. It's a non-factor regarding conferences that have an odd number of teams per division.

Nonsense. If you have built your team to contend THIS year it is most definitely a factor if this is the year you play five conference road games. It does you absolutely no good to have five home games next year when you are rebuilding and aren't a factor in contending for the title.
01-11-2020 03:33 PM
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NJMark Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:19 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Looking deeper with that in mind, all five of the western teams have only four conference home games in 2020. Maryland and Rutgers have five, but maybe the league is taking pity on them until they're more competitive.
In the case of Rutgers, it was allowed in deference to the previous year, when they had only 4 conference home games, but didn't schedule an FCS game.
01-12-2020 02:31 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Really hard to tell before, since when the original AD agreement was made, they grandfathered in games already contracted. So you would have needed to have had a good database of contracted games that included the dates when the games were announced, plus a list of any waivers that were granted for one reason or another.

But that was also when they were negotiating for a new contract. Once they landed one, it is easier to run a compromise like the "when your division has 4 Big Ten home games" by the media partners to see if they object.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 04:32 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-17-2020 04:19 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 03:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Personally, I think having the entire division play either 4 or 5 home games in alternating years is the best way to solve the 9 conference games issue. Within the division no on has an advantage because they all have the same number of home games.

The issue is not competitiveness within the division, rather the revenue from a 7th home game. Big Ten and SEC schools bank $5-10M per home game. Scheduling an FCS school is a cheap way to fill that 7th game without having to work out some reciprocal return game, even a 3-1 sort of deal. A lesser revenue school will prefer to go the FCS route, while one like Ohio State or Texas who more than double each home game will schedule a G5 school.

The SoS difference has not proved to be much value as SEC and ACC schools schedule FCS schools and they are not hurt by the committee not much by the computer.

But it basically comes down to extra revenue for the department, where that 7th game is money the school gets to keep and not share.
01-17-2020 05:26 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 05:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 03:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Personally, I think having the entire division play either 4 or 5 home games in alternating years is the best way to solve the 9 conference games issue. Within the division no on has an advantage because they all have the same number of home games.

The issue is not competitiveness within the division, rather the revenue from a 7th home game. Big Ten and SEC schools bank $5-10M per home game. Scheduling an FCS school is a cheap way to fill that 7th game without having to work out some reciprocal return game, even a 3-1 sort of deal. A lesser revenue school will prefer to go the FCS route, while one like Ohio State or Texas who more than double each home game will schedule a G5 school.

The SoS difference has not proved to be much value as SEC and ACC schools schedule FCS schools and they are not hurt by the committee not much by the computer.

But it basically comes down to extra revenue for the department, where that 7th game is money the school gets to keep and not share.

This is correct. For the Big Ten and SEC, a 7th home game has become a sacrosanct requirement.
01-17-2020 08:07 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-11-2020 03:33 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:40 AM)chester Wrote:  Folks who are for divisions in the SEC, ACC & C-USA, but are against an odd number of conference games because of "unbalanced home/away" should keep this in mind. It's a non-factor regarding conferences that have an odd number of teams per division.

Nonsense. If you have built your team to contend THIS year it is most definitely a factor if this is the year you play five conference road games. It does you absolutely no good to have five home games next year when you are rebuilding and aren't a factor in contending for the title.

That's silly, as nobody builds a team to contend "this year". Sure, as it turns out, going in to a given season the coaches might think they have a contender, but nobody knows that in advance as there are too many moving parts. Nobody knows what years will be contending years or rebuilding years, unless you are a super-power like an Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State where you figure you are going to contend every year.

So the two are never that kind of factor. Heck if it is, then of course you would build your team to contend in a year where the schedule, like having 5 home games, is favorable. But nobody can control that.
01-17-2020 08:30 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 05:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The issue is not competitiveness within the division, rather the revenue from a 7th home game. Big Ten and SEC schools bank $5-10M per home game.

Pretty much. One expects one can tell the lower revenue schools by their scheduling.

Indiana, 2020 at UConn, 2021, at WKU, 2022, at UC, 2023, vs Louisville, 2024, at Louisville (host Louisville in 2025 in a 1-1-1 contract), bouncing between 7 and 6 home games based on the Big Ten conference schedule.

Also hosting 3 FCS schools over that time (Idaho 2021, 2022, and frequent visitors Indiana State in 2023).

Illinois schedules like they make a little bit more money per game, they have 7 home games over 2020-2026, with (as a Big Ten West school) their OOC P5 away games in odd years, no away Go5 trips in sight, and their FCS buy games all in even years 2020-2026: Illinois State, Chattanooga, Eastern Illinois and Southern Illinois.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 08:37 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-17-2020 08:34 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 05:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 03:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Personally, I think having the entire division play either 4 or 5 home games in alternating years is the best way to solve the 9 conference games issue. Within the division no on has an advantage because they all have the same number of home games.

The issue is not competitiveness within the division, rather the revenue from a 7th home game. Big Ten and SEC schools bank $5-10M per home game. Scheduling an FCS school is a cheap way to fill that 7th game without having to work out some reciprocal return game, even a 3-1 sort of deal.

Bingo, although competitiveness *might* also factor in, they aren't mutually exclusive. As in "we will schedule an FCS because it gives us an extra home game and thus all those extra dollars without reciprocity in a coming year, AND it is an easy win, a breather game amidst the conference schedule".

And no, it doesn't matter that at an LSU, maybe the actual attendance for the FCS or low-G5 game is 20,000 less than for an SEC team. The Athletic Department makes essentially the same money because all the big money items, the season tickets, box seats, suites, seasonal parking, etc. are already purchased. Fans may not show up but their tickets were paid for anyway. Cut the FCS team a $1 million check for showing up and you still make $2 million or more profit on that home game.

For those reasons, those who think the P5 will ever stop playing FCS are delusional, even more delusional is the notion of P5 not playing G5 either.
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 08:39 AM by quo vadis.)
01-17-2020 08:35 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 08:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 05:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The issue is not competitiveness within the division, rather the revenue from a 7th home game. Big Ten and SEC schools bank $5-10M per home game.

Pretty much. One expects one can tell the lower revenue schools by their scheduling.

Indiana, 2020 at UConn, 2021, at WKU, 2022, at UC, 2023, vs Louisville, 2024, at Louisville (host Louisville in 2025 in a 1-1-1 contract), bouncing between 7 and 6 home games based on the Big Ten conference schedule.

Also hosting 3 FCS schools over that time (Idaho 2021, 2022, and frequent visitors Indiana State in 2023).

Illinois schedules like they make a little bit more money per game, they have 7 home games over 2020-2026, with (as a Big Ten West school) their OOC P5 away games in odd years, no away Go5 trips in sight, and their FCS buy games all in even years 2020-2026: Illinois State, Chattanooga, Eastern Illinois and Southern Illinois.

The two Indiana games against Idaho were announced in 2015 before Idaho dropped down to FCS. At that time Indiana would pay Idaho 1.2 million for the 1st game and 1.3 for the 2nd game. I would expect that with the drop down to FCS that pay would drop down also.
https://fbschedules.com/idaho-indiana-sa...schedules/
01-17-2020 09:07 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 04:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Really hard to tell before, since when the original AD agreement was made, they grandfathered in games already contracted. So you would have needed to have had a good database of contracted games that included the dates when the games were announced, plus a list of any waivers that were granted for one reason or another.

But that was also when they were negotiating for a new contract. Once they landed one, it is easier to run a compromise like the "when your division has 4 Big Ten home games" by the media partners to see if they object.

Nobody schedules FCS games 3 years in advance, at least not any FBS schools. Those are usually the last games scheduled.
01-17-2020 10:44 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 10:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  Nobody schedules FCS games 3 years in advance, at least not any FBS schools. Those are usually the last games scheduled.

I was not aware of that:
2020 - Illinois State at Illinois
2022 - Chattanooga at Illinois
2024 - Eastern Illinois at Illinois
2026 - Southern Illinois at Illinois.

Or:
2020 - South Dakota State at Nebraska
2022 - North Dakota at Nebraska
2024 - South Dakota State at Nebraska

Or:
2022 - Indiana State at Purdue
2024 - Indiana State at Purdue
2026 - Indiana State at Purdue
2028 - Western Illinois at Purdue

Or:
2020 - Southern Illinois at Whiskey
2022 - Illinois State at Wisconsin
2024 - South Dakota at Wisconsin
2026 - Western Illinois at Wisconsin

Now, to be sure, the ones that are further down the track might have cheap enough buy-out clauses if they are bought out early enough that they are more penciled in than locked down, but I expect that the AD's that had them would still argue they be grandfathered in, ...

... and there wouldn't be a lot of pushback, since for the AD's concerned about the impact FCS games on the value of the media rights, the bulk of that impact would NOT be on the next three or four years of games , but in the out years, so grandfathering of existing contracts would not be worth fighting over.

Of course, with the next few years grandfathered in, that is also a recipe for "there has been an agreement at the AD meeting" being "there has been an agreement to announce a decision, even if some of the AD's are going to start lobbying to roll the decision back a bit."
(This post was last modified: 01-17-2020 11:50 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-17-2020 11:49 AM
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RE: B1G scheduling philosophy
(01-17-2020 10:44 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-17-2020 04:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-11-2020 09:03 AM)Crayton Wrote:  I believe it was relaxed in years where they only had 4 conference home games. Not sure how strictly that principle has been followed, before or after.

Really hard to tell before, since when the original AD agreement was made, they grandfathered in games already contracted. So you would have needed to have had a good database of contracted games that included the dates when the games were announced, plus a list of any waivers that were granted for one reason or another.

But that was also when they were negotiating for a new contract. Once they landed one, it is easier to run a compromise like the "when your division has 4 Big Ten home games" by the media partners to see if they object.

Nobody schedules FCS games 3 years in advance, at least not any FBS schools. Those are usually the last games scheduled.

Need to look at your teams' schedules more closely. I note that UGA already has FCS Samford scheduled for '22, Tennessee Tech for '24, Austin Peay for '25.

Kentucky has FCS Youngstown State scheduled for '22 and '26, E. Kentucky for '23, Murray State for '24 and '27.

Texas doesn't appear to need the FCS games, and has instead opted to have long-term payday deals with UTEP (/'20, '25, '27, '29, '31)and UTSA ('22, '24, '26, '28,'30), and two against Rice ('21, '23)
01-17-2020 12:05 PM
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