The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I know you like to say that and we could quibble about a couple of those schools but we have never been on par with Butler. Especially not 10 years ago.

(01-13-2020 03:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I know you like to say that and we could quibble about a couple of those schools but we have never been on par with Butler. Especially not 10 years ago.

I did say slightly below some... Butler was not light years better than us when they beat us on a tip in at the buzzer in an 8 vs 9 NCAAT matchup.

We were definitely on par with WSU, and the head to head matchups in Bracket Buster games were epic.

We were better than VCU.

I don't imagine you are quibbling with Utah State or Northern Iowa.

We simply can't be compared to Wichita State or Butler, as far as the history of college basketball goes. Sorry. We have done next to nothing over the years in basketball friends, we have won three games in the tournament...EVER.

Just a couple things I found online.

On December 14, 1964, Gary Thompson led Wichita State to its first-ever No. 1 ranking. The Shockers won the MVC and earned a berth into the Midwest Regional. After defeating Southern Methodist and an Oklahoma State team led by Henry Iba, the Shockers headed to the Final Four in Portland. There, the Shockers were matched against the defending national champion UCLA Bruins, losing 108–89.

The Shockers have made 14 appearances in the NCAA Tournament, reaching the Final Four twice, the Elite 8 four times, and the Sweet 16 six times.

BUTLER: started playing basketball in 1920. Butler had the national coach of the year in 2007, Todd Lickliter . Butler made the sweet 16 way back in 1962! Up to 2018 they had won 24 times in the NCAA Tournament.

WE ARE NOBODY'S in NCAA basketball my friends. We did win the 1975 DII Championship though.

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

And we didn't have football, or barely had it, and played in a toxic dump. I'm not happy with hoops. but I'm also understanding and love going to football games -- most years not ending in '19

(01-13-2020 05:38 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

Really? Is that because you give so ******* much? Because if it is, why are you slumming here? . . . IMO, we have about 20 people -- max -- who have the loot to let us do whatever the hell we want with coaches. A proactive AD would let JJ go now? Really VB Monarch? Let me fix this for you. A proactive AD with **** tons of $$$$$ would let him go. Wake up And smell the coffee-- or else buy the school a mega pot. My $1200 a year ain't buying TP for the non existent upstairs FF bathrooms, but at least I know that.

(01-13-2020 04:11 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I know you like to say that and we could quibble about a couple of those schools but we have never been on par with Butler. Especially not 10 years ago.

I did say slightly below some... Butler was not light years better than us when they beat us on a tip in at the buzzer in an 8 vs 9 NCAAT matchup.

We were definitely on par with WSU, and the head to head matchups in Bracket Buster games were epic.

We were better than VCU.

I don't imagine you are quibbling with Utah State or Northern Iowa.

You are talking about 1 year. A year that Butler went to the national title game at that. One game or 1 year does not mean you are on that same level.

(01-13-2020 05:57 PM)bench jockey Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 05:38 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

Really? Is that because you give so ******* much? Because if it is, why are you slumming here? . . . IMO, we have about 20 people -- max -- who have the loot to let us do whatever the hell we want with coaches. A proactive AD would let JJ go now? Really VB Monarch? Let me fix this for you. A proactive AD with **** tons of $$$$$ would let him go. Wake up And smell the coffee-- or else buy the school a mega pot. My $1200 a year ain't buying TP for the non existent upstairs FF bathrooms, but at least I know that.

Why are you clouding the issue? I was talking about having vision and being great. I never said I was one of the big contributors, but I am a proud ODU graduate and care greatly about my university. I have read we have one if not the largest athletic budgets in CUSA. We should be competing for every conference championship every year. This is far from reality. I do believe folks will support a bold vision. Not this mediocre way of happenings Woody has displayed.

(01-13-2020 04:56 PM)mac Wrote:  We simply can't be compared to Wichita State or Butler, as far as the history of college basketball goes. Sorry. We have done next to nothing over the years in basketball friends, we have won three games in the tournament...EVER.

Just a couple things I found online.

On December 14, 1964, Gary Thompson led Wichita State to its first-ever No. 1 ranking. The Shockers won the MVC and earned a berth into the Midwest Regional. After defeating Southern Methodist and an Oklahoma State team led by Henry Iba, the Shockers headed to the Final Four in Portland. There, the Shockers were matched against the defending national champion UCLA Bruins, losing 108–89.

The Shockers have made 14 appearances in the NCAA Tournament, reaching the Final Four twice, the Elite 8 four times, and the Sweet 16 six times.

BUTLER: started playing basketball in 1920. Butler had the national coach of the year in 2007, Todd Lickliter . Butler made the sweet 16 way back in 1962! Up to 2018 they had won 24 times in the NCAA Tournament.

WE ARE NOBODY'S in NCAA basketball my friends. We did win the 1975 DII Championship though.

Not really concerned about what happened in 1964, when we had already caught up in 2010.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

(01-13-2020 05:38 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

Don't let them change the narrative with fake news. We were absolutely on par with WSU in every way back then. From name recognition to media coverage to performance on the court. There is an argument to be made that Butler was a cut a over us, but the gap was not large.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

(01-13-2020 05:50 PM)bench jockey Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

And we didn't have football, or barely had it, and played in a toxic dump. I'm not happy with hoops. but I'm also understanding and love going to football games -- most years not ending in '19

Mediocre football is fine as long as it isn't used as an excuse to destroy the sport that ODU made its name with. #ODUISABASKETBALLSCHOOL

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

(01-13-2020 05:57 PM)bench jockey Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 05:38 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

Really? Is that because you give so ******* much? Because if it is, why are you slumming here? . . . IMO, we have about 20 people -- max -- who have the loot to let us do whatever the hell we want with coaches. A proactive AD would let JJ go now? Really VB Monarch? Let me fix this for you. A proactive AD with **** tons of $$$$$ would let him go. Wake up And smell the coffee-- or else buy the school a mega pot. My $1200 a year ain't buying TP for the non existent upstairs FF bathrooms, but at least I know that.

With a budget that pales in comparison to ours North Texas has managed to pay football and basketball coaches near and over $1M. If they don't have the money, then they need to make the moves necessary to free it up for Men's Basketball and Football. I'm tired of the AD with the largest budget in CUSA crying poor.

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(01-13-2020 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 04:11 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I know you like to say that and we could quibble about a couple of those schools but we have never been on par with Butler. Especially not 10 years ago.

I did say slightly below some... Butler was not light years better than us when they beat us on a tip in at the buzzer in an 8 vs 9 NCAAT matchup.

We were definitely on par with WSU, and the head to head matchups in Bracket Buster games were epic.

We were better than VCU.

I don't imagine you are quibbling with Utah State or Northern Iowa.

You are talking about 1 year. A year that Butler went to the national title game at that. One game or 1 year does not mean you are on that same level.

Not true.

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(01-13-2020 11:09 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

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Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

Agreed. We are in a tough spot. Getting donor buy in to raise another round of funding for another new coach is probably not going to happen very soon. I am guessing we are looking at at least 2 more years after this season, by which time, JJ will probably be ready put another team in the tournament, and then start this whole perpetual cycle over again. Its so frustrating being in this situation.

A lot of the basketball donor pool is not the same as the football pool. I don't think you are necessarily asking people to do the same thing again. The guys that pay thousands for courtside seats and club level seats can't be much happier than the guys donating thousands for a prime tailgate spot.

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(01-13-2020 01:42 PM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-12-2020 10:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Well we just generated the biggest turd of a performance Ive seen in about 3 years and still almost beat the #1 team in this 3rd world conference on the road. We are going to win more than 12 games.

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Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

...keeping in mind that no coach in ODU history has ever won more than one game in the NCAA Tournament. For those who are counting, that's over four decades. Whatever the blueprint for success is, and has been, isn't working IMO.

Blaine's teams were good enough. Got unlucky, but good enough. These teams we are fielding now have no chance.

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(01-13-2020 07:31 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 05:50 PM)bench jockey Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

And we didn't have football, or barely had it, and played in a toxic dump. I'm not happy with hoops. but I'm also understanding and love going to football games -- most years not ending in '19

Mediocre football is fine as long as it isn't used as an excuse to destroy the sport that ODU made its name with. #ODUISABASKETBALLSCHOOL

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We are definitely on the same page.

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(01-13-2020 07:55 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 01:42 PM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

...keeping in mind that no coach in ODU history has ever won more than one game in the NCAA Tournament. For those who are counting, that's over four decades. Whatever the blueprint for success is, and has been, isn't working IMO.

Blaine's teams were good enough. Got unlucky, but good enough. These teams we are fielding now have no chance.

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You mean a couple of his teams were

(01-13-2020 05:57 PM)bench jockey Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 05:38 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:32 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It was pretty easy to see with foresight that those two would be better than JJ.

Keatts was in danger of getting a show-cause from the Louisville mess. He didn't, but there's also a reason he had to start at UNCW and that's because he was too hot for more-established programs to take a flyer on.

I advocated for Rhoades for the get-go but he's also made it clear that VCU was the job he wanted. Was ODU close enough to the region that he would have been as happy making a long-term home here? Or would he have after two seasons like he did Rice, adding to it the twist of the knife that he finds ODU's most-hated rival a better home for him and used ODU as a stepping stone to get there? These decisions don't get made in a cleanroom where coaching ability is the one and only metric. Even if you take it as settled law that both coaches are better than JJ, that doesn't mean they would have been the right fit for any number of reasons.

Plus I remember a push here for Dr. Brett Reed in Lehigh, and he's done less in the past few years than JJ.

(01-13-2020 02:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Everything does NOT hinge on the CUSA tournament. If JJ's teams were winning more impressive games out of conference, winning more big games overall, recruiting better, finishing in the top 75-100 every year, drawing more fans, and still going to the NCAAT once every 4 years or so, he would be building something that has the potential to catch fire. It is not just the lack of NCAAT appearances that make this program look stagnant.

In 2015, ODU beat No. 14 VCU and LSU and Sun Belt champion Georgia State on the way to a 24-6 regular season and an NCAA-consideration-worthy RPI. Then they lost to Middle Tennessee and that was that. They played Murray State in that epic NIT regional final at the Ted, a team that went 27-5 in the regular season but, wait for it, lost in their conference tournament. It could have been an NCAA play-in game. It was not. This is what it is to be a non-power program in a world where power programs are consolidating power.

ODU beat Syracuse and VCU last year, both NCAA teams. Does anyone remember or especially care this season? They could win three power-conference games a season but the bottom line at this level, for better or worse, is NCAA bids, which almost always will come down to the conference tournament. Lose that, and nobody cares that you have a top 25 win to your name when the prom's starting and you're sitting in a booth at Denny's by yourself. Um, not that I'd know anything about that.

The problem is that your examples are spread over a 3 year period. You have to get those good wins and post those gaudy records damn near every year to raise the profile of the program. If we did that, we would be a top tier Mid Major with the recruiting and scheduling benefits that creates, which would ultimately lead to the program being elevated across the board. What we get now is an occasional good win or two in an occasional season, and an occasional NCAAT bid. That is not the kind of consistency that you need to move the needle. That is the kind of stuff you see from a decent mid major, not what you see from a top mid major.

And since some folks like to claim that it is ridiculous to think little ol' ODU can reasonably aspire to being a top mid major I will add this. 10 years ago we were on par with, or slightly above/below all of the following programs. Butler, VCU, Wichita State, Utah State, Northern Iowa. We are not only close to one of them and three of them have been to the Final Four. We were once positioned to reach that level and then our new AD decided that competing at that level in basketball was not the goal.

I agree with Blue. It’s all about athletic excellence and what you aspire to be. Having a vision where you want to be. I believe, during the BT years, and even before, ODU had built a solid brand. People knew who ODU was and the national media talked about us. Okay, maybe not on par with his examples, but years ago, Gonzaga was a complete nobody. So was Wichita State. Those programs and others made the commitment to strive to be great. They then executed their game plan and were successful. We instead chose to hire a mediocre coach on the cheap and here we are. For whatever reason, Woody has limited vision. He never has and never will. He plays it safe and is more worried about covering his butt. If you can’t be bold and strive to be great, then go the heck home. Until we hire an AD who sees us being great in all our Athletic programs, we were be same ole, mediocre. And please don’t play the lack of money card. I just don’t buy it....

Really? Is that because you give so ******* much? Because if it is, why are you slumming here? . . . IMO, we have about 20 people -- max -- who have the loot to let us do whatever the hell we want with coaches. A proactive AD would let JJ go now? Really VB Monarch? Let me fix this for you. A proactive AD with **** tons of $$$$$ would let him go. Wake up And smell the coffee-- or else buy the school a mega pot. My $1200 a year ain't buying TP for the non existent upstairs FF bathrooms, but at least I know that.

Bench you're getting pretty salty in your old age

(01-13-2020 07:55 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 01:42 PM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 09:07 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Most likely, you’re right. But if somehow they did fall apart like the football team did them that might be enough to move more quickly than anticipated. Hoping it’s an aberration of a year but if it turns out they’re not as happy with his overall performance as we assume, this would give them the out they needed. Not a good look to prospective coaches to fire someone after a 22 win season, no matter how weak those wins were.

Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

...keeping in mind that no coach in ODU history has ever won more than one game in the NCAA Tournament. For those who are counting, that's over four decades. Whatever the blueprint for success is, and has been, isn't working IMO.

Blaine's teams were good enough. Got unlucky, but good enough. These teams we are fielding now have no chance.

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Bingo. A thousand times this.

Blaine’s teams took final 4 Michigan state to the wire, were a tip in against butler away from beating the national finalists, upset Notre dame and battled Baylor tough

JJ’s one ncaa tourney team got dominated for 40 minutes by a good but not great Purdue team.

Unimpressed.

(01-14-2020 12:40 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 07:55 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 01:42 PM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 10:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Therein lies the problem. There is almost no chance we will have two season in a row where we don't win at least 22 games in this terrible conference, but there is also almost no chance that JJ takes this program any higher than he has thus far. Some think that is enough, I guess. But, I feel like if you have stagnated, and that stagnation doesn't include a lot of NCAAT appearances, it is time to look for the person that will take the next step forward. JJ will never be bad enough to fire over a 3 or 4 year period, but he also will never elevate the program beyond what we saw last year, which was not good enough to be the peak, imo. At some point we have to get past the 25 win seasons, and say this dude has been here for the better part of a decade and the program is not progressing past a lot of high win totals against pretty weak schedules and a very occasional NCAAT bid that results in an uncompetitive first round loss.

This isnt an unreasonable take. But, first they are going to have to figure out how to get some more money to lure a coach with the pedigree to get the program to another level.

...keeping in mind that no coach in ODU history has ever won more than one game in the NCAA Tournament. For those who are counting, that's over four decades. Whatever the blueprint for success is, and has been, isn't working IMO.

Blaine's teams were good enough. Got unlucky, but good enough. These teams we are fielding now have no chance.

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Bingo. A thousand times this.

Blaine’s teams took final 4 Michigan state to the wire, were a tip in against butler away from beating the national finalists, upset Notre dame and battled Baylor tough

JJ’s one ncaa tourney team got dominated for 40 minutes by a good but not great Purdue team.

Unimpressed.

After Purdue beat ODU they beat the defending champs (Nova) by like 30. Then they beat Tennessee (2 seed) With a spot to the final four on the line, UVA made one of the best plays in the history of college basketball to force overtime and the rest is history. Pretty sure Carson Edwards broke multiple records along the way as well.
And I’m not even arguing your point. I thought last year was like our third best team under JJ. We weren’t going to beat Purdue. But what do I know? let’s just not start pretending like Purdue wasn’t really freaking good. I mean seriously.