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[split] Football independence?
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oliveandblue Offline
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[split] Football independence?
If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.
12-27-2019 02:08 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #2
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.
12-27-2019 02:40 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #3
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it
12-27-2019 02:56 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.
01-06-2020 06:19 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #5
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

This is a massive deterrent of going independent, perhaps the biggest.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2020 06:34 PM by Michael in Raleigh.)
01-06-2020 06:29 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #6
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

A lot of ODU fans (well, ODU posters) would be happy with this, but why do people think the A10 is in any rush to expand? They have 14 schools, same as CUSA, but for some reason nobody thinks of them as overstuffed. But they've got a footprint from St. Louis to Charlotte to Massachusetts. They really don't benefit that much from adding two more schools (including a second Charlotte school), unless there's a North/South or public/private split coming, which seems awfully unlikely.
01-06-2020 06:50 PM
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RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 06:29 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

This is a massive deterrent of going independent, perhaps the biggest.

The playoff would be the largest deterrent even if that autobid was available to independents as well as G5 teams, because it would be easier to have an undefeated or one-loss record with any G5 schedule than, for example, BYU's 2019 schedule.
01-06-2020 07:34 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
A G5's chances of making an 8-team playoff would roughly be 1 in 60. 1 in 5 if you are a conference champion. Actually for each conference champion, the odds might be a little different for each conference

AAC champion 1 in 3
MWC 1 in 4
CUSA 1 in 6
MAC 1 in 8
SBC 1 in 8

So teams in the MAC have a 1 in 96 chance of making an 8 team playoff.

Do you really think any team is really going to give up independence to join the MAC just so they have a 1 in 96 chance to make the playoffs? Meh, playoffs don't matter.
01-06-2020 08:41 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

Great writeup!

What about potential travel savings for non football sports as a draw to take football independent, assuming independents are factored into the next CFP agreement

Take FAU and FIU for example

The only thing tying them to CUSA is football

If they were able to make football independence viable, they would save a lot of money having their other sports in the ASUN where there are other Florida schools. Being a big fish in a small pond could also allow their basketball programs time to develop
01-06-2020 09:13 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 09:13 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:08 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If this pans out for UConn, we might enter a post-conference era where we have 20 or more independents. There isn't enough money at the G5 level to justify conference affiliation unless you really feel at home in your conference.

Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

Great writeup!

What about potential travel savings for non football sports as a draw to take football independent, assuming independents are factored into the next CFP agreement

Take FAU and FIU for example

The only thing tying them to CUSA is football

If they were able to make football independence viable, they would save a lot of money having their other sports in the ASUN where there are other Florida schools. Being a big fish in a small pond could also allow their basketball programs time to develop

Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?
01-06-2020 10:58 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #11
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 09:13 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:40 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Eh, I don't think it'll be some huge exodus because the flip side is that you need somewhere to actually go to. The MAC is compact and coherent enough to be protected from any of this sort of realignment, and the MW is the only game in town out west outside of the PAC, so unless Boise wants to try to load up on PAC/B12 schools BYU-style I don't see anyone coming out of there. The AAC has established itself well enough I don't see anyone jumping ship for a non-football conference that isn't the Big East, and that door's closed. You're basically looking at schools on the fringes of CUSA or the SB. Could ODU and/or Charlotte cast eyes at the A10? Maybe, but that's about it.

If there's growth in the number of independents, I think it comes from a single-digit number of FCS schools.

Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

Great writeup!

What about potential travel savings for non football sports as a draw to take football independent, assuming independents are factored into the next CFP agreement

Take FAU and FIU for example

The only thing tying them to CUSA is football

If they were able to make football independence viable, they would save a lot of money having their other sports in the ASUN where there are other Florida schools. Being a big fish in a small pond could also allow their basketball programs time to develop

Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

If Texas does it they will want the Notre Dame treatment
01-06-2020 11:09 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #12
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
I think we’ll see being an Independent more viable. The problem before was scheduling—due to the great conference expansion of 1989-1995—and getting on TV. TV is getting easier and easier. Plus, there are some major advantages in autonomy, and one could argue UConn has a better “eye test” schedule than they did in the AAC with their P5 games.

Back in the day, Notre Dame and DePaul were powerful basketball Independents, scheduling just got too rough. Denny Crum pretty much wanted Louisville to be an Independent by fighting Metro expansion when Tulane got the Death Penalty.
01-06-2020 11:27 PM
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Post: #13
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 11:09 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 09:13 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:19 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-27-2019 02:56 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Agreed. You still need a place to park your olympic sports and not many schools have that readily available.

ODU and Charlotte back to the A10 with football as an independent is more viable than it was 5 years ago, but would either school benefit much from doing so?

What other schools would beneift from football independence?

It would be nice if independence became a viable option again, but I doubt many use it

Going independent is easier said than done. That being said, it's not completely out of the question provided that there's a solid place for basketball and Olympic sports.

The schools that would benefit the most (at least in theory) from football independence would fit the profile of BYU or UConn: schools that legitimately believe that they are Power 5 schools, but are resigned to the fact that they are shut out of that club for reasons beyond their control. As a result, they could seek independence as a way to distinguish themselves from the "structural ghetto" of the G5. Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Boise State, and San Diego State come to mind as potentially fitting that profile (essentially the top AAC and MWC schools). Navy showed that it could work as an independent in the past and Army continues to be an independent today, so Air Force could probably do so, as well. The G5 label definitely bothers the schools that feel (whether justified or not) THISCLOSE to P5 status but can never get past the glass ceiling. So, independence is way to create a different label and narrative - that's certainly why a school like BYU will stay independent no matter how much money a G5 league might offer them.

Of course, BYU has the backing of the LDS Church and UConn is putting its other sports in the Big East where they'd be receiving a P5-level of revenue for basketball, so one has to look at the totality of the impact on the entire athletic department. Not very many schools have that extraneous support (either via religious backing or, in the case of the service academies, the federal government) or connection to a non-football league as financially and competitively strong as the Big East (where UConn was a unique fit due to history).

Are any of the top AAC schools better off being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from, say, the Atlantic 10? Similarly, are any of the top MWC schools better of being football independents and creating a non-football league of the top basketball schools from the WCC or other western leagues? Probably not as of now, although the G5 label is one that a lot of schools want to shake (see the AAC's "P6" campaign).

We'll also have to see whether the G5 receive an auto-bid for its top champ in an expanded 8-team CFP. That would certainly lessen the desire for the top G5 teams to go independent in that scenario.

Great writeup!

What about potential travel savings for non football sports as a draw to take football independent, assuming independents are factored into the next CFP agreement

Take FAU and FIU for example

The only thing tying them to CUSA is football

If they were able to make football independence viable, they would save a lot of money having their other sports in the ASUN where there are other Florida schools. Being a big fish in a small pond could also allow their basketball programs time to develop

Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

If Texas does it they will want the Notre Dame treatment

I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.
01-06-2020 11:33 PM
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Post: #14
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
The only reason why BYU is independent and will keep it that way unless a P5 gives them an invite: the University of Utah. Independence is preferable than being in a G5 conference no matter how much money and concessions said conference throws at them. It’s Big XII or bust for BYU.

UConn had the fortune of having good connections with the Big East schools that shared a conference with them since the 1980’s. It was the only AAC school that still had an old Big East vibe while the rest were just C-USA schools with a new logo patch on their jerseys. It also helps they don’t have a long history playing at the FBS level so going independent was not seen as a big deal.

Any other G5 school no matter how Power 5ish thinks of itself will not sacrifice its football program to go independent and be at the mercy of P5 schools and the networks plus they won’t play for basically anything other than be bowl eligible. The service academies could do it and before anybody says NMSU, UMass and Liberty, they had no other option but to be independent (although UMass had the option of going all sports in the MAC) and would gladly join a conference especially NMSU.
01-07-2020 12:30 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #15
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 12:30 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The only reason why BYU is independent and will keep it that way unless a P5 gives them an invite: the University of Utah. Independence is preferable than being in a G5 conference no matter how much money and concessions said conference throws at them. It’s Big XII or bust for BYU.

UConn had the fortune of having good connections with the Big East schools that shared a conference with them since the 1980’s. It was the only AAC school that still had an old Big East vibe while the rest were just C-USA schools with a new logo patch on their jerseys. It also helps they don’t have a long history playing at the FBS level so going independent was not seen as a big deal.

Any other G5 school no matter how Power 5ish thinks of itself will not sacrifice its football program to go independent and be at the mercy of P5 schools and the networks plus they won’t play for basically anything other than be bowl eligible. The service academies could do it and before anybody says NMSU, UMass and Liberty, they had no other option but to be independent (although UMass had the option of going all sports in the MAC) and would gladly join a conference especially NMSU.

The Big 12 might not be there after 2025.
01-07-2020 06:14 AM
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Post: #16
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?
01-07-2020 10:00 AM
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Post: #17
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 06:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  The Big 12 might not be there after 2025.

Sure it will. If any schools leave, they’ll replenish their ranks with AAC and MWC teams.
01-07-2020 10:30 AM
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Post: #18
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.
01-07-2020 12:20 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #19
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

The AAC would probably take Texas Olympic sports, especially if a couple of annual football games were part of the deal and an upgrade or two in bowl affiliations.

Texas Olympic sports probably wouldn't mind a lineup of mostly Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Wichita and Memphis.
01-07-2020 12:38 PM
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Post: #20
RE: UConn's 2020 schedule almost complete
(01-07-2020 12:38 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 12:20 PM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-07-2020 10:00 AM)Bogg Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 10:58 PM)46566 Wrote:  Could this work for Texas? Would the university if Texas be better off in let's say the Southland and football as a independent? Have any non picked up basketball game tonight n the Longhorn network. Maybe have a Southland game of the week to be on the Longhorn network to throw Southland a bone?

(01-06-2020 11:33 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd figure that any game not on ESPN,2,U would be put on the Longhorn network instead of ESPN plus. The main question is would this help the Southland? For football I could see games against Baylor, TCU, tech, SMU and maybe A&M yearly. Maybe a FCS Southland game as a thanks for the help in Olympic sports. I'd figure Oklahoma would be a yearly game. That's 7 games a year not counting the smaller Texas schools in FBS. They could have deals with the Texas bowls.

The Southland?

I only chose the Southland as I didn't think the Big 12 wanted a non football Texas in the conference. It would give them a conference primarily in Texas and Louisiana. The mountain west conference would work also.

The AAC would probably take Texas Olympic sports, especially if a couple of annual football games were part of the deal and an upgrade or two in bowl affiliations.

Texas Olympic sports probably wouldn't mind a lineup of mostly Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Wichita and Memphis.

Wait a second... are we actually talking about the University of Texas at Austin here?

If so, Texas would definitely mind that type of lineup. Texas has all but said publicly that they don't consider the SEC (which has multiple flagship AAU institutions plus Vandy) to be academically acceptable, so how could they ever realistically even consider the AAC or any non-P5 league?

The only way that I could see Texas going independent in football is that they get Notre Dame's actual deal: membership in a P5 conference for all sports except for football. If it's just membership in a G5 conference, then that's not going to work.

Besides, the more that I have observed Texas over the years, the more that I believe that *control* is even more important than money to that school. Being able to control schools like Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor within the Big 12 is exactly what Texas wants even if they would make more revenue as an equal member of the Big Ten or SEC.

Texas isn't a lone wolf - they actually *want* to have the life of the Big 12 under their control. 10 years ago, I didn't believe that they could pass up the additional money that they could have made in essentially any other power conference, but now I see how Texas works. In contrast, Notre Dame is totally a lone wolf - their entire school *identity* is based on independence and the belief (whether it's true or not) that they're fighting against outside forces (e.g. conferences like the Big Ten) impinging upon their liberty. Texas and ND both want power, but their respective school cultures and how they want to wield that power are very different.
01-07-2020 01:01 PM
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